Oh, I did not mean from me... I don't take you that seriously anyway. No, I meant from the majority of the members here.
I've always felt that there are two Keith Olberman's First off there is ESPN Olberman- A bit of a wise guy, not as funny as he thinks he is -- and Xenophobic. The least worthy of his material was the "fun" he had on his broadcasts with issues relating to the name of ex Italian international goalkeeper Gianluca Pagliuca. The MSNBC Olberman- Really and truly witty with a committment to dispensing the truth rarely seen in the corporate media. Olberman stood up to the bullies in the Bush Adminstration long before it was acceptable in the Mainstream Media. His commentaries on our misadventure in Iraq are legendary and are amongst the most downloaded spots on you tube. Perry
tell me why No, It was ironic American poeople won't relate to a foreign athlete like they will relate to an american player. American athletes will always be more popular. Of course, I've never said they are not foreign stars in US. I have great arguments. That's why you just don't know what to say. All you can say is "idiots" and "stupid". At least try to prove me wrong. You become childish Kenn... American people need american stars. Being an american citizen helps. But more popular than Beckham, that's for sure. American athletes are more popular than foreign stars. You keep denying. Don't act like you didn't understand. WHY DID NIKE SIGN WITH FREDDY A $1 MILLION CONTRACT ??? I'm talking about endorsment. You know why. But many ignorant people in US think he is. You know very well that being 31 as a quaterback has nothing to do with being a 31 year-old right winger in soccer... Oh yes you can They won't. They need more substance, when it comes to sports, american need great talents. Not just a pretty face. When they will dominate soccer at the highest level, you will know.
Do you know what the the majority of the members think of me ??? And you have to know that I don't take Bigsoccer seriously either... LOL
Maybe the way we've quoted each other in snippets has kept you from understanding, so let's try this: 1 - You said that Americans can't identify with foreign players. 2 - I gave you a list of foreign players that Americans can definitely identify with, and do, because they're very popular players. 3 - You then said that because those players aren't the most popular players, you were right. 4 - You weren't right because you didn't say originally that Americans would be less likely to embrace a foreign player, you said they wouldn't. 5 - You then tried to make the argument about what Americans would rather embrace, not what they would not embrace, which is what you originally said: That Americans wouldn't embrace Beckham because he's a foreigner and Americans "can't identify with foreign athletes." You're wrong. I'm an American and I'm telling you that you're wrong. This country is not homogeneous. We can identify with and embrace foreign athletes, foreign movie stars, foreign newscasters, foreign you-name-it. They don't have to be in the top ten most popular people in those categories to prove you wrong. How do I know this? Because I'm an American. I'm here. You're not. Now, who doesn't have an argument again?
This thread exemplifies what Big Soccer has become in recent years. So far I've learned from this post that Olbermann said something about footy that made some people think he's anti American/MLS, doesn't like the idea of Prince Charming in LA, he's a moron who's really, really smart and smug, a liberal, a baseball snob and he his words have the power to instigate a pissing contest between yanks and frogs....did I miss anything? I watch Olbernmann regularly and I enjoy him. I am starting to get the impression that he might not be GWB's biggest fan...
my point remains the same : Americans can't identify with foreign players like they would identify with american players, Americans can't relate to foreign players like they would relate to american players. That's why they will always choose an american star over a foreign star . This is what I was meaning. If MLS wants to make a major impact in USA, they have to produce US world class players. Meaningless. You wrongly thought that I was claiming they weren't popular foreign athletes in US at all. Of course they are popular foreign athletes, I know that but they are NO WAY as popular as american athletes in US. Of course I'm right, I'm right since the beginning If you knew my point about this subject, you should have known that I originally said that "Americans would be less likely to embrace a foreign player". That why I strongly support the US youth system over the Beckham rule. American soccer and Nike need american soccer stars so bad to promote soccer. I stated many times before that Beckham won't have the same impact than a top american player. America needs american world class players. Beckham, Zidane or Ronaldinho won't change soccer in US like US players would. That's also the reason why Nike signed a huge deal with Adu few years ago. And you refused to admit that. Soccer will never "make" it without american players in US. And I strongly support what Olbermann said : Instead of focusing on growing American stars, (american) pro soccer has wasted the last 40 years importing international greats, many of them over the hill, most of them English, from Georgy Bess to Bobbie Moore, from Jeff Hearse to Gordon Banks, say nothing of Julio Caesar Remaro, Franz Beckanbauer, Georgio Canalya, Johan Niskens and Pele (ph). It has never worked before, so, of course, it will work now." I repeat again, American people won't relate to a foreign athlete like they will relate to an american player. I just prove you that you were wrong. PS : You have the nerves to call me stupid, after claiming that "american people will embrace Beckham because his particular type of foreign-ness is not an issue for Americans. And because he's world-famous. And because he's good-looking. You're right Kenn, you know very very well american people to say something like that...
krayzie: "When it come to sports, american people want american stars they can relate to." me: "Americans don't seem to have a problem relating to sports stars from other countries." That's what it comes down to. Americans do not need a sports star to be American to identify with him. No will you please just die?
Was golf popular in US before Tiger Woods ??? Was tour de France popular in US before Lance Amstrong ??? in fact, those guys are americans. If Lance Amstrong was italian and Tiger french, do you think Americans wouldn't have a problem relating to those guys ????? Of course, they wouldn't be as popular in USA. Being american helps to promote and increase dramatically their sports. American people love those guys, because they are americans. That's why I tell you that when american soccer will produce young american players with the talent of Thierry Henry or Ronaldo, they will eclipse quickly your David Beckham... Mark my words Beckham still remains to most american people as a foreign british player. He will never have the impact that you want him to make. "When it come to sports, american people want american stars they can relate to." That's why american athletes are always more popular in US.
Forgive me if this point was made upstream somewhere, but I think this is worth mentioning. The main thing for most American sports fans is that they care so much more about the games that are played HERE . . . the accomplishments of the guys who win HERE will always be held in higher regard to contests held elsewhere. Nobody REALLY cares where Tiger Woods comes from, and most American fans couldn't even tell you where he was born. What matters is that he wins his events here, on our tv networks and with all our media standing there waiting to report it. So if Tiger wins the British Open, golf fans know about it but when he wins the Masters then EVERYBODY in America knows about it. On the other hand, Lance Armstrong has made a great story for himself as the American who goes out and beats the world at "their" game, against odds, etc. But he's not nearly as big as Tiger because he was only in the news once a year, and for several of the early years that didn't even resonate with regular American sports fans because it wasn't happening here, and it wasn't on tv every time you turned around. Understand too that the guys who achieve "hero" status don't do it on their victories alone, but by winning PLUS a sophisticated and lucrative process conducted by the media, advertisers and marketing interests. To achieve this "hero" status, a guy should be a winner . . . THEN, he must speak English, it helps if he's good-looking and he needs some good help navigating all the media and marketing attention. So, once Beckham starts playing HERE, he will be embraced by much of the American sports media because he has hero status in many parts of the world, so that alone is worth a story. But the true test will be whether he is embraced by the MARKETING community here, and that's not an automatic yes. His English accent is enough of a detriment to many advertisers that he won't automatically be the go-to poster boy, even for many of the very same brands he has represented before. American advertisers have a lot of stars to choose from, and many of them won't hitch their wagon to a guy who made his bones overseas and who sounds a little different . . . that's a definite component to this discussion.
Yes. You may have heard of a guy named Jack Nicklaus. And another named Arnold Palmer. It's not popular now after Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong was popular. No, not really. How can you sit in France and tell me what Americans will and won't do? This is what I'm really wondering about. Ichiro's ancestry isn't keeping Mariners fans (or baseball fans) from relating to him. David Ortiz' ancestry isn't keeping Red Sox fans (or baseball fans) from relating to him. Yao Ming's ancestry isn't keeping Rockets fans (or NBA fans) from relating to him. Absolutely incorrect. Not even close. Once again, since you obviously missed it: American people don't, as a rule, find British people to be unfamiliar foreigners. We embrace them. Beckham will have an impact, and it will be far above what the best American players to this point have done. Those two statements are at odds, and that is my point. American people are not incapable of relating to foreign athletes. American athletes are, in fact, more popular in the US. But you keep saying two things that conflict: that American athletes are more popular (true) but that American people can't relate to non-American stars (which is not true).
Not necessarly, I think what matters for american people is that american athletes succeed at the highest stage. Lance Amtsrong became famous because he won the Tour de France (the biggest tournament) and he's american. Not because he has accomplished something in US. It's all about of what is regarded as the most important. I think americans care about Tiger because he's american and champion, and succeded at the highest stage. This is what matters.
You didn't respond to my question. If he was french do you think he would be as popular in US ??? So you believe that American people would relate to him the same way even if he's not american ??? Is Ichiro more popular than any american baseball player ??? Is Yao Ming more poular than any american basketball player ??? Are those foreign players more popular than american players ??? [/quote] Oh really tell me a single british athlete who has the status of Mohamed Ali or Michael Jordan in US. Just one... And when the US will produce players a good as Beckham, they will be more popular... Americans can't relate to foreign players like they relate to US players.
Which is not what you said originally. You said they couldn't relate to them. They can. You didn't qualify it. I'm amazed we're still having this conversation. Now, excuse me, I have to go relate to the 70% of the National Hockey League that's Canadian.
Americans can't relate to foreign players like they relate to US players. This is what I've always said and meant since the beginning ... That's why I'm for a world class youth development instead of the stupid Beckham rule... Stop making a fool of yourself ...
This is the guy who insisted on Gianluca Pagliuca highlights on Sportscenter because he just loved to say the name. They were the only soccer highlights seen on ESPN at the time.
You: "It also confirms what i've always thought, americans only care about american stars." Stupid statement then, stupid statement now. "To american people, Beckham is still a foreign player they cannot relate to." Stupid statement then. Stupid statement now. "When it come to sports, american people want american stars they can relate to. " You were almost there with that one. If you'd said "American people prefer American stars," I might have been with you. But there are a whole list of stars in American sports (I gave you some) about whom Americans care and to whom Americans relate.
What tells you it is stupid ??? Do americans care more about foreign players than US players ??? Stupid statement ??? If he's not foreign, what he is ??? American ??? I've always stated American people prefer American stars over Foreign stars. which you disagreed at first until you admited I was right... But you know coming from someone who think that : "american people will embrace Beckham because his particular type of foreign-ness is not an issue for Americans. And because he's world-famous. And because he's good-looking. " You really speak like american people were a bunch of retarded people... I don't understand why it's hard to admit thatI was right since the beginning, and you just wrongly understood my thoughts...
I'm not a big advocate of moderators wading into threads but if ever one needed to be closed, it's this one, and soon.
The word "only." The stupid part is that because he's foreign, Americans won't relate to him. No, you haven't "always" stated it. Did I misquote you above? That's a direct quote from you: "It also confirms what i've always thought, americans only care about american stars." Exactly. No, but I know at least one Frenchman who is. I didn't misunderstand what you said. You said it. You wrote it. You were wrong.
It's bound to happen, soon. Speaking out amongst the crowd and the yelling... Can we make our points without the personal attacks? If not, then the thread gets closed.
So did Capello and McLaren (speaking of morons). My, how times change from late January 'til now...although Beckham IS still getting older!
He's 32 now, by 2010 he will be 35, do you serioulsy believe that he will still play at the same level ???
Oh excuse me, oh excuse me I should have say mostly or primarly. Still americans will always be more concerned about american athletes than let's say British athletes... most americans won't relate to him because he's foreign. that's why american athletes are more popular than foreign athletes. Yes I have, and several times... No, you didn't misquote me right there, you misUNDERSTOOD me. And even after explaining you several times, exactly my points, you still refuse to admit hat I was right... Yep, exactly stupid... No ??? are you sure ??? Again you said : "american people will embrace Beckham because his particular type of foreign-ness is not an issue for Americans. And because he's world-famous. And because he's good-looking" Now that's the pinnacle of stupidity... Americans are more concerned about talented american athletes, than a foreign good looking player... Yes you did misunderstand me because I've already TOLD you and explained you exactly my points. when I said : "When it come to sports, american people want american stars they can relate to. " I'm right... Face it... This is the point that Obermann made : instead of focusing on growing American stars, pro soccer has wasted the last 40 years importing international greats, many of them over the hill, most of them English, from Georgy Bess to Bobbie Moore, from Jeff Hearse to Gordon Banks, say nothing of Julio Caesar Remaro, Franz Beckanbauer, Georgio Canalya, Johan Niskens and Pele (ph). It has never worked before, so, of course, it will work now. He clearly points out the fact american people want AMERICAN STARS, not INTERNATIONAL STARS... Olberman (who is american) doesn't seem very pleased by the "particular type of foreign-ness" of Beckham, and seems to consider as foreign the English players just like the other foreign players like Beckhenbauer Pelé. To Olbermann there's no difference ... So when you told me that, "We don't look at English people as foreigners", he prove you wrong... Olbermann's point of view is to me the point of view of many american people... When MLS will produce fantastic american players, I'm sure that Olbermann and most american people will be more concerned...