KC v. Real Salt Lake: Pre-game thread

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by hartley, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. hartley

    hartley Member

    Let's get this started. Salt Lake is down. We are up.

    I would expect Gansler goes back to the 4-4-2 against RSL. If so, the question is which midfielder sits and which defender gets on.

    Zotinca seems to have been pushed off not only the starting squad but also the bench. I don't understand it. But this being a home match, he may get the start at right back. Or it might be Roberts. Brian has looked good in his sub appearances. But can he look that good for 90? If Alex doesn't get it, is this the signal that his time in KC is over after this season? I certainly hope not.

    Jewsbury had another good start. He was making things happen and creating space as usual. But Bob has liked having Victorine, Gutierrez, and Zavagnin all in the midfield at the same time. Unfortunately, that means Jack sits. If Sasha is to be the attacking midfielder as he was at DC, then either Diego or Kerry need to sit in a four-man midfield. Diego can go out left, but I believe he is less effective. Jack should really start for the more potent attack.

    On the other hand, Bob may like what he saw in the 3-5-2 and stick with it. I was shocked he changed formation for the DC match.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. the_cyclones

    the_cyclones New Member

    Jul 26, 2004
    The Cauldron
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    I was shocked too.
    I think Sasha continues to start as an attacking mid.

    I tend to think he'll go back to 442 but at least now RSL has to wonder what formation he'll use.

    However, nothing wrong with starting off at 352 and attacking like crazy in the first 20 minutes or so, then dropping back to defend more. Even going to 442 or 451 in 2nd half.

    I like how it makes us think even more about what lineups BG will play. Maybe it's the start of him actually playing around more... needing to take some chances to ensure we don't end up 1 point out in 5th place or out on Goals Scored at the end of the season.. not like we have a chivas or rsl to pad the division.
     
  3. Tyler66

    Tyler66 New Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    Massachusetts
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    I thought he used a 3-5-2, because D.C. United used one.
     
  4. hartley

    hartley Member

    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    Let me ask you something, does Bob Gansler seem the kind of coach to just do something because someone else does?

    If so, why is this the first time in about two seasons that he has used a 3-5-2?

    Back in the days of Eric Quill and Carey Talley, etc., the Wizards' personnel may have been better suited to playing a 3-5-2. But since the beginning of last season, danger Bob has been pretty stuck on his double holding midfielder brand of 4-4-2. This is truly the first "adjustment" I have seen him make.
     
  5. jdoppel

    jdoppel Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    very true. although i will point out that the 2000 campaign was fought almost entirely via the 3-5-2 method with McKeon and Z as the defensive mids.

    i actually thought he was a total devotee of the 3-5-2 until last season when he all but erased it.

    you know, in germany a lot more teams play the 3-5-2. i thought maybe that explained why he was so adamant about it. but then as personnel changed, he adapted. i dont know what he used in the A league or with the Nats (or any of his other teams) so it was just a total guess on my part.

    i really thought Shavar should play in the center with Nick wide right because of Nicks superior speed. But Shavar likely would not have been able to make those two world-class tackles that nick made on Dema.

    i often think Bob is wrong in which players he chooses, where he plays them, and in what formation. but he has won more cups than i have, and has a lot more experience than i do. so maybe i have absolutely no idea what i am talking about.
     
  6. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    But at the time I think we had less defensive options, I mean we had Vermes, Garcia, and Prideux starting and Uche on the bench, after that I don't think we had much defensively, so Bob used the 3-5-2 to keep some defensive help on the bench, but that could just be my opinion on that.

    I had orginally thought that at the beginning of the game, but then when Adu schooled Shavar on the sideline, I realized why Nick was in the middle, as cover for Shavar. True Nick would possibly have been better on the wing, but him being in the middle and his ability to cover ground quickly helped cover for Shavar's lack of speed many times.
     
  7. Redfoot

    Redfoot New Member

    Dec 19, 2002
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    He does say this in this mlsnet article. http://kc.wizards.mlsnet.com/MLS/ne...ent_id=35978&vkey=news_kcw&fext=.jsp&team=kcw

    "Today we mirrored their lineup," said Gansler, "which we don't usually do. (We wanted to) win the races in the wing channels.

    So he does make it sound like he did it because that's the way D.C. play.
     
  8. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    Aug 29, 2001
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    I suspected this was the case, and it wasn't just something he did on a whim. This season and last, we've had problems against DC, especially in the way that they have used their midfield to both control possession and shut down our attack by using their defensive midfielders to sit right in front of the back three.

    Plus, he may have wanted to get his best 11 (or what he thinks is his best 11 available). Zotinca just hasn't been all that impressive, and maybe Jewsbury was a better option.
     
  9. Redfoot

    Redfoot New Member

    Dec 19, 2002
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    I agree and since it seems like he did it because we were playing D.C. I wouldn't be suprised to see us go back to the 4-4-2 this saturday. If we go back to a 4-4-2 I wouldn't be suprised to see Roberts start at right back since Zotinca seems to have fallen out of favor.

    Saturday's game is the only one I've seen since Wolff and Conrad have been gone so I don't know which formation I'd rather see on Saturday the 4-4-2 or the 3-5-2 we played against D.C.

    Also if I remember correctly Kreis has given us trouble in the past so we need to be wary of him.
     
  10. misterbean17

    misterbean17 New Member

    Jun 1, 2004
    Fayetteville, NC
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    I would agree that RSL is down

    But I don't agree that we are playing well

    We were winless for 6 of the last 7 games up until we barely beat a DC team that dominated play for most of the game

    Some of the past few games against down teams haven't turned out so well: at Chivas, Columbus, at Rapids

    We should win, because on paper we have the better team and the better record

    But I wouldn't be too shocked if they went goal-crazy on us

    2-3 RSL
    Kreis, Arnaud, Watson, Mathis, Preki
     
  11. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    They'll be looking to come back after their 5-1 beat down, but I don't think we'll let them do it. We're riding high off a nice road win. Perfect situation for us to continue to chase down NE.

    The flag will fly high early and often.

    3-0 Wizards.
     
  12. KCFC

    KCFC New Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    Merriam, Kansas
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    The reason Gansler went with the 3-5-2 is because Jimmy was on national team duty. Saturday we will play a 4-4-2 with Jimmy and Shavar in the middle with Nick and Jose B out wide. The question usually is who will Gansler play up top and who will play left midfield. Davie and Jack have scored 3 goals each and still have problems consistently starting. Go figure. Wolff has 4 goals but how many of those were penalty kicks? Our leading goal scorer is our right winger. Plus, Wolff makes $420,000 according to the NY Times article. I doubt the rest of our current starting lineup makes that much combined (Preki not included). I can't justify Wolff's salary with his effort on the field. At least Davie goes hard for every ball. Either way, maybe I'm wrong about the formation changes and Gansler is realizing that we are not scoring enough goals this year and we need to make some changes to create some more offensive chances.
     
  13. Merlin172

    Merlin172 Member

    Mar 16, 2000
    Kansas City, Kansas
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    No, the reason he went with a 3-5-2 was because we match up better with DC that way. He said that. We wanted to win the matchup on the wings.

    No we won't. Jimmy is still gone for the Gold Cup. We'll most likely go back to a 4-4-2, but with Nick and Shavar in the middle.
     
  14. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]


    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219013

    umm... you're well off on that, we have plenty of players that are making money.
     
  15. misterbean17

    misterbean17 New Member

    Jun 1, 2004
    Fayetteville, NC
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    1 compared to Jaime Moreno's 5 PK goals
    Yeah but he's the best in the league. It's not uncommon for a midfielder to be a team's leading scorer(i.e. Preki, Amado Guevarra, etc.)
     
  16. KCFC

    KCFC New Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    Merriam, Kansas
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    Only in the MLS maybe are the wings the leading goalscorers, I'm not sure of another league were the wings are the leading scorers.

    I stand corrected on the salary issue, the rest of team makes about 800k versus Wolffs 400k, that still should be shocking for a player who has scored the same (minus a pk) as Jewsbury (who hardly plays) who only makes how much ....$28k!

    Apparently, I stand corrected on the reasons for the 3-5-2, maybe the real reason Gansler thought we matched up better in a 3-5-2 is because he realized that Diego and KZ are both defensive midfielders, so a 4-4-2 doesn't make sense.
     
  17. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    Well a 4-4-2 can work with 2 D mids, especially if you play a box midfield. Or inthe case of the Wizards it seems like we're playing with 2 D mids, plus Klein on a wing, but free to change sides and sometimes play in the middle, and then Victorine playing a more attacking mid role.
     
  18. ojsgillt

    ojsgillt Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lee's Summit MO
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    Don't forget the Kreis factor. The man has 97 goals, and I swear that atleast 1/4 (including his first) are against the wizards. That man just has our goat. It wasn't until last year that I can remember when we shut him down.
     
  19. KCFC

    KCFC New Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    Merriam, Kansas
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    a box midfield in a 4-4-2? That may work at the bowling alley in San Jose, but if you don't spread the field, no one will be open in the middle. If we have been playing a "box midfield" that may explain the low goal turnout this season.
     
  20. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    Actually, I've seen the box midfield work quite well in many instances especially when you have the components to make it work. with a box midfield, you have your defenders doing attacks down the wing. That's what my college team did this year because we didn't have many fantastic wingers, but had four very good central mids, so we had our wingbacks attack. That's what gives you the spread of the field. And with the fact that we seem to build a lot of our offense through Jose bringing the ball up the wing, and Nick's wanting to get forward, it could work. I'm not saying it would, but I was making the point that you can play a box mid and still be successful.
     
  21. KCFC

    KCFC New Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    Merriam, Kansas
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    It puts a lot of pressure on Jose B, and I'm not sure that the accuracy of his crosses is quite where we need it to be to rely so heaviliy on him. I see what your saying though. I used to not like Garcia's distribution, 'cause he used to just kick it, but this year the times he has ran down the wing he has been crossing with some amazing accuracy. Regardless, I would just like to see a more offensive minded formation from Gansler to give us some more opportunities to score.
     
  22. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    Thing is, the pressure has been on Jose B for a while, I know Andy and a few other people have noticed that we attack through Jose many times, basically the same way that would be expected in what I was talking about, but I agree his crossing has not been up to snuff at the moment.
     
  23. KCFC

    KCFC New Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    Merriam, Kansas
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    He basically in-steps his crosses which can mean good things if struck accurately, but any in-step is going to much more difficult to aim than a bent cross or even a driven cross. Klein is more of a scorer than a good crosser, and lets be honest Nick's specialty is defensive not offensive, so really relying them for our wide midfield play is questionable at best.

    I still think we deserve a good foreign allocation, whatever happen to that? Did Lamar putting the team up for sale end all foreign allocations?
     
  24. Merlin172

    Merlin172 Member

    Mar 16, 2000
    Kansas City, Kansas
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    Yeah, because it doesn't work at all for the National Team and Bruce Arena... Oh wait, that's right. It's really effective for us. :rolleyes:
     
  25. Scottt1115

    Scottt1115 Member

    Sep 14, 2003
    SLC, UT
    Re: KC v. Real Salt Lake [r]

    Beat me to it.
     

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