I don't know anything about KC Politics but is it possible this is nothing more then a political play by the mayor? If the city council is overwhelmingly on board(which I read in another thread on this topic) and can override any veto attempt by the mayor and he knows this, he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by publicly oppossing this project. He knows he can't stop the project but gets all political advantages of going back to his constituents and saying "I tried to stop tax payer handouts to billionaires but the council caved in."
The mayor's stance is probably at least a little bit political. He ran on a platform that included cleaning up the TIF program, since the previous mayor was a bit free-wheeling with it. He actually supports the project, but is taking a stand on TIF since that's why a lot of people probably voted for him. He also has to be careful not to delay it so long that it gets pulled and built elsewhere (like across the state line in Kansas). This plot of land is going to need a big project like this to clean the area up.
Mayor Funkhouser's platform was essentially centered around TIF reform. It was evident to many a long time ago, whether they admitted it or not, he was going to be the major roadblock. I think I even called it at the beginning of this thread. The council members will have a tricky decision coming up. What sucks is the developers have been jumping through the TIF reform hoops for a long time, and worked with the city to come up with the plan presented. The TIF Commission which is appointed by the mayor, had already approved the plan unanimously as well.
Does the Mayor by himself have the power to veto or kill this project even though the commission unanimously approved it?
Yes. He can veto the project, and the Council would need 8 of 12 yes votes to override the veto. That hasn't happened at City Hall since Funkhouser has taken power, and ever that I know of. Veto power was only granted to the Mayor's office within the last 20 years (this was Tom Pendergast country). I can't remember when exactly.
Re: 12/6/07: 60-90 Hours Yes, they probably could (we don't know the exact contract) forcibly buy back the operatorship. But unlike forcing the current owners to move (which I would argue they can't do), that's obviously and expensive proposition borne by HQ. The stakes just aren't that high for HQ unless the situation deteriorates a lot further.
I think MLS want both the St. Louis and Philadelphia markets, each of which seems very close to reaching an SSS deal, but that would leave them with 17 teams, an odd number they don't want. Therefore, it would seem that if Kansas City drops the ball here on a stadium deal, it would be very convenient for the league to just move the club about 250 miles east and then give Philadelphia the expansion franchise. In other words, a failure by the Wizards would solve a problem for MLS. So Kansas City, beware. Get it done, or else.
Re: 12/6/07: 60-90 Hours It would also be a major power-grab, one that could deter potential investors/owners from putting their money into the league.
It would make alot of BS folks happier too, wouldn't it? I think some people are jumping the gun here a bit.....the mayor knows this is a huge deal to lose for the city, and that there is huge support on all levels for this project. He just wants to make sure the TIF part is to his liking first. Don't go packing our bags for us just yet. I think RSL was actually alot closer to moving at this point in their process than we are right now, and look what happened for them. It's politics....it takes time to work it out, and this particular project is still extremely viable for everybody involved.
Move KC! This is an embarassment to MLS! Bush league! STL/Philly/Montreal/Portland deserves a team! Now that all the retards have stopped reading my post and positive repped me halfway to heaven- can someone from KC give odds on the stadium being built in this location under the current bill? Do the Mayor's comments really hurt the chances of the TIF going through? I know this is all speculative, but it'd be nice to see some actual analysis of this news, rather than the countless inbreds screaming KC sucks at the top of their collective lungs.
Re: TIF approval for KC Wizards moves forward ...which is to be independent of league subsidies. I dont care which other teams are getting those payoffs such as DC or NY, get unhooked! The only thing any MLS team should be getting from the league is TV profits and specific team merchandise profits. Become like LA and stop draining the league of profits!!Diddo for all the others.
Well, we could all chime in but I think some of us have differing views on the matter, some of it having to do with how optimistic we are, whatnot. I consider the biggest obstical for this project is the timing of it. Wizards/OnGoal want to have it all wrapped up by the end of the month as to get state funds early 2008 and break ground ASAP as to get it done by 2010 opener. If it can't get through the council/mayor in a relatively short amount of time, it's likely they will start having discussions with other locations. I wouldn't be too surprised if discussions for other locations have been going on behind the scenes... which would probably result in a much less favorable location, but would still get the stadium going. That being said, the entire council wants this to go through, the surrounding neighborhoods are behind it, and even the rest of KC is mostly positive if not behind it. Most complaints are with amount of public support (of which many have no idea how TIF really works anyways)... a small minority just hate public assistance or soccer. Other than that, the city is looking at putting up ~$270 million with ~$40 being this Super TIF stuff that the Mayor is so against... while the entire project is expected to take almost $1 billion... which is a very nice ratio, esp. compared to other TIF projects that have been approved previously. Nobody else is going to step up to redevelop this area anytime soon, so the city would have to say no to one of the few opportunities that they would have to see someone put money into an area that really needs it. My guess is that Lane4 (the developers) will make some compromise before the next hearing next week and the Mayor can reverse his position without losing too much face... but other posibilities are that the council overturns the veto, the Mayor softens his position 'begrudgingly' or the obvious posibility it doesn't go through. I'd like to say that it's 80-90%, but I realize that I'm an optimist so maybe it's more like 70-80%... but mostly based off of the whispers that the some council members are saying they would have enough to overturn a veto should it occur. Some members might end up chickening out when push comes to shove, but I still believe that this is very much going to happen... That's my take at least... I'm sure others will say otherwise, but I just consider that I am excited about this project _despite_ the fact that it includes the future Wizards stadium. Even if I didn't care about soccer one bit, I believe I would support this - because the area needs help and this is the type of help it needs. I guess this is probably what most people feel, and as such it seems like it would be a huge dissapointment if it got away.
Re: TIF approval for KC Wizards moves forward One impression to correct here. If KC contributes ~$1 million to the league collective via ticket sales and has a $2.6 million roster, it does not necessarily mean they're living on the league dole. If you divvied up the national tv contracts, national sponsorhips, and share of SUM into an even pie, that might well get you to where you need to be. Another way to think about this is that if a team sold 15,000 tickets a game at $20 apiece for 16 home games and paid 30% of that into the collective, that would still leave them less than $1.5 million, not a strategically significant difference, and still allegedly well "in the hole." But that's clearly not how the thing works. The Galaxy has got to be the only team paying in more just from the gate than they get in terms of league salary (back-of-the-envelope, I figure they put in four and a half or five million).
Re: TIF approval for KC Wizards moves forward Absoultely correct. Yet . . . while you need a certain number of teams to achieve a critical mass to have a league that can sign those TV contracts, you don't really need a specific market, especially one of the smaller ones. The payments under the TV contracts (and perhaps many of the endorsement deals) would be pretty much the same with or without the Wizards. Kansas City is a bit different because its payroll is high and its attendance -- and therefore the revenue sent back to the league -- is low. Yes, MLS can certainly make up the difference from TV revenue and endorsement income, as you are also right that very few teams appear to generate enough ticket sales for MLS to fully fund their payrolls just from that revenue, but the gap for Kansas City is bigger than most, and indeed may be the biggest in the league. Only MLS accountants know for sure. Nor is the expese to unwind this prohibitive. If MLS buys back the team at market value, say $40 million, and essentially contracts them, the league can re-issue an expansion franchise somewhere else and recoup its costs. If it sticks to the 18 team limit, MLS might even raise the expansion fee again and make some money on the transaction. Sure, MLS may loose some interest income, but they pick up the savings on the Wizards payroll to offset it. Not easy, but seemingly doable. The answer for the Wizards is easy enough -- don't let it become an issue. Get the new stadium done (which looks beautiful) and grow the fan base.
===================== This plan looks amazing= 1/ Fits well in surrounding area 2/ Excellent freeway access 3/ Fairly central location in the KC metro area 4/ Not too far from current stadium 5/ Looks suburban with all the surrounding soccer fields, yet looks closer into the city, than Dallas or Denver sites 6/ Hopefully those soccer fields will make as much money for KC, as I understand they have for Dallas and Denver with youth tourneys etc. 7/ Once again, I would think the main stadium should be able to be used for city and state championships in soccer, football and lacrosse 8/ The commercial component - say one of the office buildings, could be used as the Wizards HQ. I would assume the team would train at the complex. 9/ If the shopping, stores/restaurants are added, places for fans to go before and after the game, so if tailgating is resticted at the stadium, you have a before and after game alternative. ========== Looks all good.. Good luck and I hope the politicians and all the powers that be, see the light and approve this..
======================= How far is the training facility from the proposed complex? Too bad the training complex came first..... had the stadium/plex come first, then you have everything in one place- home field, training field, office. Then again, if you keep the soccer plex busy all year with youth tournys, it might be ok to have the separate training ground - I wonder what Dallas and Colorado do with their huge youth complexes? Do the parent teams practice there? I know the Galaxy practice at the HDC. I don't think we get the amount of youth tourneys that Dallas and Denver seem to get. We still have enough room though for all the National teams always training here, the Beckham Academy, the reserve team and the CSDH soccer teams.. Seems to work ok... Oh yeh, plus the Goats, the lacrosse team and everything else we jam into the HDC...