Then pull Robert and a few others aside when they get in and tell them that they need to be strict. I think we'd all have at least understood it then.
Ah, it's the old communication Fail: The fastest way to end any relationship. On a side, but not completely off-topic note, I agree with ESPNSoccerNet's comment about the Wizards in their weekly Power Ranking Poll: Time to blow up the Wizards. Maybe that should include a reevaluation of Vermes as well.
Are we really so unsporting that we believe that any player deserves to be hit with anything thrown from the stands? That's just silly. If you think MLS is weak by international standards, wait until everyone gets word that pelting players with objects from the stands is fair game as long as those objects are adequately soft. That should bring out the talent. Seriously, how unsophisticated must we be as fans? I think it is bad enough that we spend more time chanting disparaging things about the other team than we chant about our support for our own team. Do we really feel like our voices aren't enough to participate in the game and now we should be able to throw objects at the opposing keeper? That is insane. Besides, the rules of the game dictate that play is stopped if an external influence impacts the game. See the EPL beach ball goal that was wrongfully allowed. Do you really want streamers impacting a game like that?
throwing things onto the field during the run of play can affect the outcome of the game. beyond liverpool's balloon incident, any one remember the dreaded papierkugel? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7jdLzDrddU"]YouTube - Die Papierkugel![/ame]
Right you are; I'm sure the world's footballers would much prefer the sheletered conditions they enjoy in Europe and Latin America where the worst they would have to endure is the odd battery or cup of piss. Thank heaven they are spared the horrors of crepe paper. Seriously though, they should go ahead and ban them as they would any foreign object on the field, but what I object to is how the league and ESPN used the streamers as a marketing tool until a few players and officials complained and then the hypocrites started vilifying it. Banning them is fine by me, we have plenty of other ways to do our tifos.
Because they look awesome when done right [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHjnq7B-RFY"]YouTube - LDS Receving their team[/ame]
My 2 cents. I brought out 8 friends who had never been to a game before. None of these people would have come if it weren't for beerfest and a tailgate preceding the game. We were in the cauldron and the overwhelming sentiment from these first-time spectators was that everything seemed bush-league. From the security fiasco to the crap play and pathetic stadium. If we ever want to be taken seriously and become a profitable enterprise this perception has to change. Simply put, when 8 sports crazed (all are either royals or chiefs STH) young professionals are immediately turned off by the product on display, there is a major problem. I can't imagine my wife will allow me to renew our season tickets after the year we've had. Pathetic
I'm basing my renewal strictly on what happens this week between the Cauldron and the FO and also how we are treated Saturday.
I'm holding out as long as possible to renew. I want to see if this KCK stadium deals gets started this year or not. The whole CAB experience is getting on my nerves, so if we still don't have dirt moving by the time the deadline rolls around, I am going to have to think really hard about renewing. I want to keep my place in line for the new stadium seating, but if we are still looking at 2 or 3 years down the line, it may not be worth it, especially with the crap product on the field.
Obviously there wouldn't have been a tantrum in the Cauldron if the game on the field wasn't entirely meaningless. The most significant step they can take in my book is to make some serious moves to right this ship. CAB sucks, but it is a reality. I won't mind it being bush league if we're a winner.
I have already renewed mine. For me to renew it and add one was nothing to do with anything except my love for the team. If FO and the security problem still exsists Saturday, I will still be there next season to support the team...I can't imagine not renewing becuz of what happened last game...We can't give up! This team may have had a horrible season and we may have some problems amongst ourselves and the security but don't give up on the team. I just got an email, ( I am sure some of you got the same one), ... "We recognize that there were some issues involving supporters in The Cauldron and both stadium security and Wizards staff this past Saturday, October 17. It is our goal to work together with you to ensure that we can identify and alleviate situations like this in the future. As a first step, I hope to meet you this Saturday, when a few special guests and I visit tailgates in the season ticket holder parking lots. In addition, on Wednesday, November 18 at 7 p.m., we are hosting a Cauldron Summit at Dave & Buster’s. We hope that you will be able to attend and participate in discussions on the future of the Wizards and the supporters’ section. A formal invitation will follow."...Andrew Steinberg, Executive Vice President All i am saying is they are trying...I know Saturday was not a good sign of them trying but they do recongize there was a problem and they are trying to fix it! Don't give up on the team!
So, I'm really making a cardinal mistake here, but what the heck. Now, I wasn't there on Sat (wife's best friend's wedding) so I can't say anything in regards to what happened there. Sounds like it sucks and I can understand people being pissed off about that. That being said - was it worse than Arrowhead? Sure, that doesn't make it good or right or anything, but it does provide perspective. While I'm not thrilled about CAB or being there any longer than we already have, I do think it's a small step up from the cavernous pit of Arrowhead. I do think that security has done a pretty good job of working with us over the last ~2 years at CAB and, as long as whatever happened Sat doesn't become the de facto standard, I will probably continue to be happy with security there. Granted, from what I've heard, the whole fiasco was probably handled (or at least set up) poorly. Sure, there's a sense of "here's some streamers, throw them so you can get kicked out" - but seriously, we know well enough that the organization will make mistakes (not 'might' - will) and they have tried to make adjustments in the past. Now, if you're all pissed off because they keep making mistakes, well - I'll grant you that they have made many... but I don't think it's _too_ much and I don't think that they are the only ones making them. If you want to see what happens next to see how they adjust for what happened - fine, but then I'd say at least give them that chance before ripping them apart... and also remember that everything that happens isn't always under their control. --- As for the play on the field... yes, it isn't where I want it to be at... but we didn't have a season like NY... we have been to the post season recently and it's not like it's been the FCD game every game this year. I'm not saying go out and celebrate or anything, but perhaps you need to watch some perspective on how bad it can be by watching NCAA Football blowouts or something. So there's definitely a complaint to be made that not enough was done in the offseason... while Hirsig has been good, he hasn't been great. Cristman has been injured (bad luck there). It's disappointing that not much happened, and perhaps that's a legitimate complaint - but considering we looked rather good after acquiring Gomez and Thompson, maybe we thought we had made the moves we had needed to. Zoltan is obviously a good pickup, Kamara was a good pickup even if it's only temporary. Beyond that, Espinoza has looked promising, Besler has done very nicely in the back and Myers has also had some terrible luck... and even if he didn't live up to the hype, Lopez is quite good and the fact that we managed to get him to Kansas City is a pretty decent achievement. As for our coaches - well, everyone wanted to see Onalfo go and they got rid of him... sooner than a lot of us thought he would be let go even. Now, should they have gone off and gotten another coach right away? Perhaps, but I at least understand their position in letting Vermes fill in. Things have looked better with Vermes (IMO)... not championship level, but definitely better. ... Anyway, as I said, I'm not saying that we should all be exuberant about how the season has gone... but when I think of "crap product" and whatnot I do not think of the 2009 KC Wizards. I think of Kansas Jayhawk Football around the turn of the millennium. I think of the 2008 Detroit Lions.
i'd say the vast majority of wizards fans are also chiefs/royals fans. there's no need to look any further than that to see "how bad it can be." on that note, i genuinely think some of our -- my specifcally -- disgust in the 2009 wizards is because we're completely whiffing on a great opportunity to capitalize on how dreadful every other team in kc is right now. in the end... well, the wizards fit perfectly in with that group. we suck. is it really bad luck, though? he was injured when we traded for him. it was known. calling it bad luck just smooths over another bad acquisition by vermes. don't really have much to disagree with here. i will say that i'm not as high on kamara as others have voiced on here. he's done crap-all since his first game when he "wowed" us with some decent skills and effort, and has a big ol' squadoosh next to his name when it comes to what really matters - goals. i do agree that we should try to re-sign him, though. well, let me put it this way, i'd rather have him next year for wolff's salary than wolff with kamara's salary. the 2009 wizards were indeed a crap product. the other two you mentioned qualify as legendary crap. very few things can be in the same category as a winless nfl team.
As the season grinds to a close and I face the prospect of many months without a trip to CAB to see the Wizards I can't help but look forward to a new season. Despite everything that has gone wrong on the field I am looking forward to that optimism that you get at the start of something new and while I can understand and have taken part in some of the venting I can't help but feel optimistic about the future of the Wizards and look forward to the future. The season started ok for us and then fell away completely and it didn't take very long for the rumbling about Onalfo to start. The team looked hopeless and unmotivated and the fans soon got their pound of flesh and the Onalfo was shown the door. Bannister fell apart. We didn't score a goal in MLS play in August. We tumbled from first in the Eastern standings to near last. It was abysmal and yet things also happened that made me look towards tomorrow. Unlike many, I feel, and have said for weeks that Vermes has turned around the performance of the team. I think in terms of attacking play we are doing better, we are scoring goals. We have acquired Zoltan who I think will truly be a positive force next season. Defensively we need some real work and this seems to be Vermes' real weakness as a coach – the defense has gotten worse but I'll take it to see us at least scoring. Expecting Vermes to turn shit into sugar in a heartbeat and for us to actually win out or go on an end of season rampage towards the playoffs wasn't going to happen – some might argue that he helped hire the 'shit' and sure I can dig it but I also don't believe he is a hell of a coach, and he has improved us – I can't wait to see what the new guy can do. Depending on who we hire we could be in good shape to move forward in a division where despite everything we are three wins and a draw out of second place. Can we be ten points better next season? Hell we could have done that this season if the football gods had smiled on us a little more favorably. That said if the new stadium works out this next season will be our last at CAB beyond whatever overlap we have into the 2011 season. We'll have a new coach. Hopefully a new player or two. Without wanting to spin this toward the negative I hope we see the back of Josh Wolff – sure he has scored eleven goals. He also has poached at least one, given us ZERO assists which for a forward is amazing (Not cutting the ball back for one goal?? Not rounding a keeper once and putting the goal on a plate for .. anybody? ... no scuffing a ball accidentally to somebody else?). Despite the idea that has been vaunted that he is in decline this is his best goal scoring season ever, and he is the same damned player I used to watch at Soldier Field – he has never advanced. Between him and Lopez we have two guys that form a fair chunk of our offensive output in terms of shots, but only about half are on goal. We need somebody to play with Zoltan ..... who does not trundle around the field like he is at the grocery store returning a cart. I don't think this person is Kei Kamara ... who just does not score despite everything else that he appears to bring. I am sure he can throw defenses into havoc with his size and pace and he is a fairly good target but ... he just does not score. Paring him with Wolff would be a disaster long term I am sure of it. His heart isn't in KC ... we should just let him go. Arnaud has taken a lot of flack but I think he is under-appreciated. He was really flying at the start of the year and his form has dropped off but watch were PV has him play .... wide left this last game, when balls and free kicks where going into the area he was pushed wide. Not sure if its a plan to stretch defenses and make holes but he seemed to do all his damage from around the top of the penalty area. His role seems to have changed a bit and I am not ready to throw him under the bus right now. Sure he isn't scoring ... but then he is often limited to long range pot shots which a pretty low percentage. He will come good given the right opportunities. I really believe we are one forward away from a decent team. One more guy to play with Zoltan who ... apparently just isn't Josh Wolff and a creative central midfielder away from a good one. Our defense is fundamentally similar to last seasons – it was pretty damned good, our problem was goal support. This season its been okay, still struggling to win because we have not scored and our defensive organization has obviously faltered under Vermes. I just don't feel like this is an insurmountable proposition. Tighten up the defense a bit. Put some of the ample chances we have created away. Go to the post season. The real question is 2011 on a bigger, more standard field ... not sure if CAB is a help or a hindrance right now. I don't think Lopez, Wolff and maybe Conrad will have the legs for it .... but then Wolff never ********ing runs does he .....
Despite all these rational, well thought-out posts I'm still beyond annoyed at the organization as a whole. Is it just me or are all KC teams in a perpetual rebuilding mode? I guess my main annoyance from the last game is the fact that I convinced a fairly large group of friends to come out and see 'pro' soccer live and they all left completely unconvinced of its entertainment value and quality. I doubt they'll join me again and that is a major missed opportunity for the organization. Not just them mind you, but I imagine that scenario has been played out many-a-time for other soccer fanatics like myself. I would like to think that our FO is targeting the 20somethings with discretionary income demographic, but my group in particular left the game thoroughly unimpressed. We did, however, get pretty trashed at beerfest and the tailgate so perhaps they won't remember
This is funny. It reminds me of something I meant to mention at the time, but Jimmy C said this same thing right next to Sam Pierron on the JC show and I loled at the time picturing Sam biting his tongue. I think he and Chad have simply given up on it and are hoping they don't have to endure it for more than another season.
I hear you man, I have brought friends from the UK to games, and all kinds of random people in my age group from around the city over the last couple of years - late 20s to mid 30s, substantial income, frequent visitors to Arrowhead and Kauffman. 95% male, avid sport fan types.... and its been kind of embarrassing at times to hear their comments. Almost personally so ... I love the game at any level, in any arena, in any country ... in my mind the game is the game weather its at the San Siro or at Community America Ballpark. Sure I miss watching games at Arsenal and that big crowd noise from stadiums all over ... I CRAVE IT ... but I don't need it, and I've put my time in in stadiums that make CAB feel world class ...try Brechin City (the first time I went they were in the Scottish first, 150 people and a horse tethered in the corner of the stadium) ... or Montrose ... Plough Lane with Wimbledon ... but there is something wildly bush league about the Wizards and they really need to figure out how they want to brand themselves. That said these are two distinct groups - people from overseas that love the game and natives to KC who just wanted a fun night out and decided to come along. My brit friends and guys I have played football with might well be sneeringly called eurosnobs ... but not fans of the huge teams in all instances. Everton, Watford, Leicester City, West Brom, Ipswich Town, West Ham ... we are not talking the meccas here. The "Three Lions on their shirt/Footballs coming home" cover song (English Euro 96 Anthem) generally gets them grinning and wondering whats going on, but Walk of Champions ... dissuades them from the fact that they are in an obscure corner of England where people by cotton candy at games. Your standing in the supporter section with guys singing and then the Walk of Champions starts and you can see the enthusiasm drain away. Couple that with odd in game stuff like Bag pipes, mariachi bands, and continual "Its a corner for the Kansas City Wizaaaaards" and getting them to come back is like pulling nails. Now you might think - ******** em, they are english - and this is america and they are but 1% of the local fans. But I went on a trip with these lads to the MLS All-Star game in Utah - I met with DOZENS of Everton fans and we went to the Rio Tinto, loved the stadium, enjoyed the game, the fans. They lads talked about how much FUN it was and how impressed they were and "When are the Wizards getting a stadium?". They would be coming if the games where just presented at a level that is slightly pitched above the six year old or new fan. Its not about being in America ... and hating MLS, these lads want to get together on mass and come to Wizards games but CAB is killing them .... watching the little Wu Tang punks flipping off and yelling obscenities at the traveling fans in one game had one of them wondering if all this childishness was typical of the Cauldron, I was talking them down when the group on mass starting singing songs about the referees mom .... The good news is the stadium changes in 2011 hopefully but the actual entertainment beyond and surrounding the football needs a little work to feel professional. Now for the folk that had no expectations. They generally enjoyed themselves, but the Cauldron just confuses them I have not taken a Soccer newbie in there yet, we have kind of stood around the back of the Berm or sat in one of the seated sections. They don't get why the fans are singing and chanting ... why would they know about European style Tifo and fan groups? Its a surreal foreign experience in the heart of the USA. "The yellow teams sucks" and "Whos your daddy songs" are just a little embarrassing here as well. Think the average 18 year old might dig the humor but a thirty three yeild old dude at his first game struggles with the concept that hardcore soccer fandom in KC revolves around sophomoric songs. I am not attacking the Cauldron directly, hell if it wasn't there I just could not go to games -- and I'll be in there next weekend, and next season -- it'd be like a graveyard at CAB without it but sometimes it just feels childish, and coupled with some of the other stuff it does feel like its pitched toward early 20s and six year olds. I'll keep bringing people like I always have ... and I'll keep passing on unused tickets to whomever wants them but its kind of disheartening when people who have come before don't want a free ticket to a game. I used to take people to Chicago Fire games at Soldier Field and people came back time and time again with me and on their own .... I cant speak for them now, or the FO but everything felt more like .... you were watching a professional sports team ... I really don't want to get slammed for this, just trying to be frank and honest. The fact that I have missed two games in two seasons - the weekend my kid was born, and the weekend I was married hopefully bodes well ... it'd be amazing to start getting calls from people asking to come, or wondering if I am going because they have a spare ticket ... its just not going to happen in my circles without some presentational changes. Worst current sports town in America hands down - worst over five years? Probably.
Just an fyi, the streamer problem should not be an issue going forward. At a meeting today I asked that the remainder of the streamers not be brought into the Cauldron...period. I don't want people getting tossed for streamers, so I don't want the streamers. We can find better, original ways to celebrate and show our support for the team.
Absolutely no question. Unfortunately "should" is the operative word. As Vermes is the only guru in town, shipping him means gutting every inch of the current philosophy. Putting the off-field issues aside, not only does ownership have a questionable understanding of the overall philosophy once it gets to the field, but that only gets done if winning is the issue and not real estate. Not saying PV needs to be 86ed, just that the possibility only exists if winning is the true priority. Even beating DC has KC as a loser under him as coach. His record as GM is clearly a losing one. I don't think winning can be the priority here in KC just now...not on purpose anyway. Sounds precisely like every experience I've had of bringing any friend to CAB. Arrowhead drew more positive reactions on every account. Yeah, for viewing of a game in any seat under $50, CAB is a low-def TV from the 80s. Not even close. Arrowhead is better is almost every way. Even the rare sellout at CAB seems like something much less that what a sell-out should look and feel like. 15K at Arrowhead is still loud, only at Arrowhead you have all the ammenities. We've seen 10K at Arrowhead have a home field effect given the right night. If you are going to a 2 hour game for a larger variety of food after taking part in a tailgate, then that's your thing. As a fan, for most everything else, on field and off, Arrowhead is unquestionably better. "Cavernous pit", what a joke. Fair point, but MLS has 16 teams next year. NCAA D1 has something like 181. Disparity should be much greater among a sample size 11-12 times greater. It should also be greater in non-professional ranks. KC is 8-13 in decided league games. Any combination of 10 more scored or less allowed would have them 13-8. That's one scoreboard tally to the positive every third game. KC isn't horrible. Margins are thin at professional ranks. Every detail must be handled at all points on field and off. Clearly the franchise is dropping details and that dog will not hunt as they say. Hmmm. I can only suggest looking at game tape of his play from any one of about 10-12 games this year. A no-defense turn-over machine would be a kind decription. Anathema to a result wouldn't be an overstatement. I don't deny his occasional skill. Let's not lose sight of the fact that an accurate, lengthy, and pointed argument can be made that Lopez was last year and is again this season a net negative for the team over the full season. I agree. KCW is still a good value for a night out. The venue is an unprofessional joke. The on-field performance has been disappointing at best. The off-field performance has had to cope with issues as well. Major League franchises don't live in this reactionary and underperforming world. They may find themselves visiting there occasionally, but they don't live there. Any new stadium will only go a small way towards full curing of the issues. There are other things to handle. It hurts a little to read and then know that I agree. Hard to say it much better. So far, yeah. Clearly. The upside is that the players in question are not all gone just yet. Possibility exists that one or two of these acquisitions will have upside. Injuries happen. It's difficult to get good at any game if you can't play it. A dollar says both will be here come April. Another dollar says no one else will be signed up top unless Arnaud is traded for someone of much lesser value. Also a great point. I still don't think KC was a crap product. Certain efforts were pure crap. {cough}at Dallas{cough} Results were crap. Cup results were laughable crap. Finishing was pure and unadulterated crap. Defensive thinking was at times crap. August was a steaming pile with no fungi growing on it. Communication and execution was crap for about 12-14 weeks. The stadium is flatly unprofessional for soccer. With that I think KC was entertaining almost every game. KC sits among the MLS leaders in shots. They scored many audacious goals of permanent highlight quality. Still somehow won 8 games with countless other draws and leads blown. There are some seeds. The wins under Vermes are agianst the lesser lights of MLS and with players who had to be motivated for their jobs and careers. "Improvement" has resulted in an 0-2-2 record the last 4. Flatly, PV isn't winning. We agree. It would be better to not have to rely on etherial things like football gods, luck, or the like. I prefer finishing, defense, and superior marketing with fans firmly in mind first. I'd like for KC to have less injuries. If nothing else that would allow the team to practice daily against the best. Every guy you lose puts the "scout" team that much further behind the level that will be the opposition on gameday. It's hard to quantify, but practicing 8 or 9 a side continually against teams that can't possibly hope to replicate MLS level does have side effects. ...or six, even. There should be two new SIs minimum. All true, all frustrating. Anyone that scores 11 has a place. If they can do that while being slow selfish and inefective, then it's still fine with me. I don't much care how or why the eleven accumulated. KC is also at least 2 defenders away from being in any conversation about who's at he top. You can't allow guys to be continually behind the backline with possession and be just a forward away. I agree. To win in the post-season will require much more.
I recently watched the ESPN "30 on 30" film about the Baltimore Colts band. I was really struck by the deep relationship between the team and the city, and the injustice of their insane owner taking the team away. We're not Baltimore. If the Wizards leave, we won't get another team. Nor can we blame the owners. As a fanbase, we are incredibly lucky local people bought the team and have shown such conviction in pursuing a stadium option. Both of those outcomes was unlikely. If it doesn't happen OnGoal cannot be faulted. Of course I want the team to win. But the ONLY issue of importance right now is keeping them here. The team will win again sometime in the near future, if not next year, this is MLS and it is a parity league. It's not like the Royals, who have the deck stacked against them (but, even so, the Royals are the only baseball team I can ever support). But even if they don't win, I will support them, because they are my team. I know nowadays it is fashionable to only support a team based on how they did last week, but I can't go that way. Now is not the time for all this negativity. CAB is a necessary evil remembering that the only other option was for the team to leave. Do you think ownership wants to be in a 10,000 seat venue? Griping about a move made to keep the team here seems shortsighted. BIG PICTURE the team needs our support now more than ever. And as for MLS, it is a hell of lot better than it was 10 years ago and I believe in another 10 years it will be much better still. The only question is whether those of us in Kansas City will be able to see it live.