Kamani Hill... Defender or typo??

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by mrliioadin, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    I suppose it could just be a typo but I don't follow this player closely.

    He subbed on as a forward in the China Friendly in '07 if I remember correctly and has previously been listed as a forward... I assumed he has always, and until now, still is a striker for us but obviously the roster for the U-23 camp lists him as a defender...

    I suppose this is a what gives thread... Did we convert him to defense? Is this a typo? Do we know anyone who follows Vfl Wolfsburg who might be able to comment?

    I only ask because I like to follow the young striker pool for the US and pray that they are at least partially the tiniest slightest incy weenciest bit better than our current strikers **Cough** Twellman**Cough** so that I can at least dream of a day when we score goals with our strikers.

    I don't think Kamani hill was the future from the few minutes we saw him in that friendly but again, Just curious about his current position.

    Any news appreciated.
     
  2. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I think the answer to your thread is, both.
     
  3. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006

    As a guy who probably watched him more than anyone here through a bit of fortune, spent most of the last 18 mths in and out of Germany, this is the only move possible for him IMO if he wants a shot at the Nats. Speed but no brains and limited touch. IOW's a dime or dozen US type player of the last 15 years.

    I'm not convinced he will be a solid MLS player any time soon.

    The W'Burg coach had zero funds to spend, was desperate to keep his team out of relegation, and wanted to keep his job, so he rolled the dice on his speed for peanuts. Gamble lost.

    This is a decent trend IMO. Taking guys like Hill, Kirk, etc who are physically in great shape, but who lack touch, tactical sense and soccer braons. Move them to the back and see what happens. It gave Chris, super can't miss striker, wait, now I'm a speedy midfielder, maybe not, let's go to D Albright a career.

    Why not a few other of these guys?

    It would be better of course if we taught and rewarded soccer at the youth levels instead of physically mature, out run the guy speedsters. like this.
     
  4. Hate_Eternal

    Hate_Eternal Member

    Aug 6, 2006
    AVHC
    Although I'll admit I havent seen Kamani that much,but the times that I have seen him he has been great. In last years friendly with Sweden he was the only bright spot and was dribbling circles around the swedes something that the other players could not do. He does need more experiance and has not proven himself at any level but he has some assets that can take the U.S a long way in the future.
     
  5. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    ionno about dribbling circles... honestly, he wasnt that good in that match... the only reason why people think he looked good was because he didnt turn it over the 3 times he had the ball in possession... while the rest of the team did... didnt create a chance... and mostly just passed it away...
     
  6. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Hehe. You said it, not me.

    I never tire about the conjecture here from meaningless stints, in meaningless siuations, that last only a few minutes.

    My guess is that this is what Augie saw in his trial and figured what the heck, maybe I can get something out of this kid. He costs nothing, and I have nothing to spend.

    He threw the kis right into the fire and after a few promising minutes early it went steadily downhill. Under pressure he just couldn't process fast enough. His limited touch hurt him also. Of course, this should have been experted coming out of college.

    Ah, who coined that phrase I read here once? The magical Euro Fairy Dust?

    Didn't work for Hill.

    None of this is being done to bash the kid. It's just a reality check for the over exuberant out there. Don't expect much. In all probability you will be dissappointed.

    If Hill stays in college and enters the draft he would have been another non descript college forward, whose track record of success in MLS (forwards) is very, very low.
     
  7. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Absolutely inaccurate -- Hill didn't embarass himself against Sweden but he didn't do anything threatening either.
     
  8. Hate_Eternal

    Hate_Eternal Member

    Aug 6, 2006
    AVHC
    Are you serious? You can't really make a judgement off of 5 minutes of play in a meaningless friendly.
     
  9. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    It's tough but if you've seen a few touches you can get a quick read. If you've seen him play over the internet from Korea you've seen a bit more.
     
  10. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    I agree with this. I think the issue is that he "dribbled circles" around the Swedes.

    Just untrue to say the least. He looked competent in the last few minutes of a match. That's about it.

    The larger sample show his problems when faced with regular pressure and having to make quick decision. Not up to it yet.
     
  11. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    u also cant say he was great and dribbled circles around players in a match either...
     
  12. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    According to the U-23 blog, Nowak is trying him in the back. One can only assume he'll be playing fullback.

    They probably need more options there since Hunter Freeman got injured against China.
     
  13. Captain10

    Captain10 Member

    Jul 26, 2000
    Marietta, GA
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IMO Freeman is not up the level of our Olympic Team. To me, he would be way down the depth chart...
     
  14. Trevallion

    Trevallion Member

    May 3, 2006
    The Yakima Valley
    http://u23mnt-ussoccer.blogspot.com/

    From the U-23 MNT Blog:

    We caught up with Kamani Hill to talk about the Vfl Wolfsburg midfielder/forward's switch to fullback... how did that happen?

    U23 Blog: Have you ever played defense before?

    Kamani Hill: No, I've pretty much been an attacker my whole life until these past few weeks.
     
  15. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    Is there another country in the world that converts as many attackers to fullbacks as the U.S. does?
     
  16. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Actually most countries do it. Just a lot earlier than we do.

    We wind up doing a lot of this to kids when they hit the pros in their early 20's.

    Most clubs identify kids who aren't good enough up front or in the middle ITO and start transitioning them back several years earlier.

    One thing seems clear to me. It's mostly the college forwards /attackers and early maturing physical studs who don't learn enough sophisticated soccer, and rely more on their size and speed to get by. Doesn' twork against men and the proper tactics. In youth soccer and college here it is sought after and rewarded unfortunately.

    Let's see - There's Albright, Kirk, Hill that come to mind immediately.
     
  17. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    Years ago I can remember Steve Sampson flirting with the idea of doing it to Dante Washington, but Washington protested.
     
  18. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Funny you should bring him up.

    This when I had a few ins with people close to the US SOccer scene.

    Couldn't stop raving about this kid. He was gonna take it up a notch for the US, etc, etc, etc...

    When I watched him I just thought he was physically bigger and quicker than most player, I didn't see mcuh soccer there. What do I know? US coaches must know better. I was just an average fan. Grew up here and Europe. Learned the game like any average kid there would.

    I did see a guy I liked. Bit undersized, not as quick or physical, but he could strike a ball nice. Had decent vision. Seemed to me that he made passes sometimes that didn't work because his teammates didn't have the slightest clue how to read them IMO. This was a month before the Pan Am games. A while back when we went and cared. The guy wasn't even a starter. Late sub type.

    There I am watching the US Mexico final. The highlights were actually on TV.
    There was Claudio Reyna, claerly a step above - he wasn't at he camp when I watched, but I knew about him, like any US fan did at the time. No one really hyped th eother kid much. Some thought he got his shot becuase his dad had connections - he did and maybe he did because of it - will never know.

    They show the star Dante but he didn't do much. They had subbed this kid in late. Physically didn't look like much but I remebered him. Hit the winning free kick and clips showed some nice passes.

    I remember how I thought this is the type of guy who could at least compete internationally (along with CR).

    Name?

    Joe Max Moore.

    Got by on brains, decent skill and understanding the game. Never a physical specimen.

    The there is the prototypical US youth coach star - Dante, I couldn't hack it when MLS was a joke in it's early years Washington, when anyone with a pulse could play.

    All I need is to remeber that story, see how other youth coaches thought. to know we were far away.

    We need more brains in youth soccer and the USSF. Brains would make our team and talent look a step above where it is now. Worst problem with US Soccer IMO. The brains, across the board. Holding us back more than anything.

    Changing a bit now finally, but wish we could speed it up.
     
  19. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    Good point.

    Gianluca Zambrotta and Christian Panucci both started out as forwards.

    Could they have become the world class fullbacks that they did if their coaches in Italy had waited as long as ours do to make the switch?

    Not very likely.
     
  20. USvsIRELAND

    USvsIRELAND Member+

    Jul 19, 2004
    ATL
    I'm almost positive Ashley Cole and Rio Ferdinand were forwards when younger.
     
  21. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Maybe the Italian players were better footballers to begin with. A baller like Chris Albright has limitations--like lateral movement--that would not have been helped by moving to defense earlier. If Hill's touch is limited as a forward it's probably going to be limited as a defender.
     
  22. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Of course Italy has a better pool/players overall.

    Part of it also is the evaluation. While their better players could have remained forward for us possibly at the time, they were seen to have limitations fo rItaly.

    Albright for me is an example of what "was" desperately wrong with US Soccer over the last decade.

    Big, strong physical kid with decent speed who dominated at youth levels/college as a forward. The next big thing.

    His limited movement and ability showed against me fairly quickly, and then he was dropped to a mid, where his limitations exposed him again, until finally, he found his niche at the back, and became a solid MLS/C'CAF player.

    We only started evaluating him properly here when he was what? 24-26 years old? It's actually a complaiment to Chris that he was able to adjust and make ago of it, but it "shows" the basic lack of evaluation at young levels.

    I know, I know, it's not an exact science and won't change overnight.

    The point is that we have pretty much the same core group, with the same limited/lack of, unprofessional experience doing th eevaluating.

    Just not good.

    People complain about our players.

    It starts at the bottom. Not at the top.

    If a guy like Chris or others weren't evaluated in the way they were, size/speed matters more than anything, he could have had a longer career at back, gained more experience earlier and would have been mor epolished for a longer period of time. We sell ourselves short here.

    Yes, it's changing. Not nearly fast eneough for my liking.

    I always go nuts when I talk to my buds in the system, yeah they benfit from it, and they play along. We are changing at a snails pace. Hard to break the menatlity and politics of it all.:(
     
  23. Dr.Phil

    Dr.Phil Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Should be mentioned in the scrimmage with DCU he played CM so nevertake the positioning of the roster to be exact
     

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