Just beautiful: Senator praises Bin Laden

I think you should change your username to Dougal if think thats what the article is saying.

 

No she's trying to find out why he's so popular in many middle east countries.

If the US is going to win the war on terrorism, it had better try to win some hearts and minds.

That may sound all mushy to simple-minded people like you who probably think that killing everyone in sight is the only answer.

Of course we did that in Vietnam for nine years and it still didn't work.

 

Where has this information come from? Yes, he was well funded, but even though I don't have the exact figures to hand I'd guess that the ratio of money spent on his terrorist camps compared to the money spent on the benevolent providing of infastructure is pretty heavily skewed towards the terrorist camps bit.

Even if it was true, that might make them like bin laden, but it wouldn't make them either hate the US or buy into his ideologies. You can't buy belief with gifts.

 

Uh, exactly what have we done for Afghanistan - apart from getting rid of the Taliban, which was an unmixed good, I know, I know. But if we just leave a smoking crater there, that's not going to help much of anyone, except Bin Laden himself.

As long as you're reading things into her statement, maybe you can add "If the Taliban comes back into power because we didn't give a crap about rebuilding Afghanistan, then we have only ourselves to blame." Because that will be absolutely true.

 

> Of course we did that in Vietnam for nine years
> and it still didn't work.

Actually, it did work. We won over the villages and destroyed the Viet Cong revolution because they no longer had any support. South Vietnam fell to an invasion from North Vietnam.

 

....

...okay, you trolled me. I hit "Reply to Post" and everything before I came to my senses.

 

"D-Wash." is all you needed to know to figure out where she stands on the role of the US in fighting terrorism. Wasn't the Space Needle a terrorist target a couple of yrs. ago? If that had been blown to the ground would Sen. Murray be worrying about educating & feeding Afghanis? Something that Dems. like her don't understand. You can win the hearts & minds of the people WHILE pursuing and eliminating the terrorist element in a country. These things are not mutually exclusive.

 

We've got good news and bad news. The good news is, the operation was a success. The bad news is, your mother died.

 

> We've got good news and bad news. The good
> news is, the operation was a success. The bad
> news is, your mother died.

Yes, we didn't start fighting the war right until we already gave up on it. But it does show that the pacification of the population is a valuable tool in achieving war aims, combined with the obvious needs of superior resources and willpower.

This is also the tactic used by drug lords in South America (using their money for helping the local population). It makes them very hard to remove.

 

I guess that explains why "D-NY" H. Clinton and "D-NY" C. Shumer are so gung-ho for war in Iraq

 

Re: Re: Just beautiful: Senator praises Bin Laden

Why would you doubt that fundamentalist islam has spent more $ on "humanitarian aid" than weapons and violence? Compared to lots of violence, it is much easier to gain the approval/love of people by saying "I care about you so I'm building this hospital", where they get free/cheap medical care albeit with a religious bent.

If I was a poor egyptian/saudi/yemeni in the outback (think of this perspective) where the government does jack squat for me, but then some group like Hamas or Bin Laden comes in and builds a hospital, I'd be pretty sympathetic. He did something locally, for no other reason than the good of his heart - while official leaders seem corrupt and uncaring. So when bin laden tells me all the accusations against him are lies and that the US and israelis are out to get him, I'd probably believe him. And hate the US/Jews too. Because he spent $ to cure my sick wife/kid/goat, and those in power did nothing.

Now obviously we know "better" than this poor 3rd world dude. But that doesn't change the facts as he sees them.

The plan of many religious groups (not just fundamentalist islam) is to gain converts to their way of thought by doing "selfless" works for the poor. And it works. And skews the outlook of the convert.

 

Neurotic psychosis in action.
The US personified.

 

This statement is 10 times worse than anything Trent Lott said. People merely inferred thoughts from Lotts words, this Senator flat out says the world would be a better place if we were as gracious as Bin Laden. I will duly expect the Democrats to ask for her resignation immediately. I won't hold my breath, however, because methinks their hypocrisy will rear its ugly head once more.

 

Is it worse because it is true? How many roads or hospitals did we build in Sudan? Bin Laden build the vital Khartoum to Port Sudan road. It replaced a horrid path with a modern road and just 2/3 the length of the old road. He also built many other roads, bridges and tunnels. He also invested in a number of agricultural products, like seseme seeds. The people in Sudan love him. Many of the good roads in Afghanistan that we are using right now were also built by him.

Bin Laden is not pure evil. We do not live in a comic book universe, no matter what Bush the Younger thinks.

 

Spejic needs to resign, too.

 

So Bin Laden is more of an Al Capone than an Adolf Hitler, i.e. Bin Laden, despite being a very nasty man, does use some money on good things, even if it is out of self-interest.

 

Yeah, he's really not that bad a guy, if we just tried to understand him. NOT!

Murray's comments are indicative of why the Dems will continue to suffer at the ballot box. The electorate understands at a gut level that the Dems don't have their heart in defending this nation.

Everything is viewed through the "Vietnam" prism.

 

Also, Murray believes Islamic countries are poor and backward because the US hasn't poured in the cash.

The real reason is that freedom and prosperity are impossible with the implementation of Sharia law.
Sharia enforces a medieval way of life.

 

I believe Stalin made some improvements in the transportation system in the USSR. I guess he wasn't pure evil too...

 

I wouldn't endorse "Bin Laden is not pure evil," because I think he's the number one enemy this country has.

But it's just stupid to pretend that people in the Middle East agree, or that it's self-evident that he is evil.

As far as the remarks being worse than Trent Lott - look, no one is happier than I am that the GOP got one in the femoral artery, but Murray pointing out how Bin Laden's sympathizers see him, and why, doesn't really compare with Jim Crow, so stop embarrassing yourselves.

 

This can also be seen from the reverse angle.
The US has sanctions against nations due to several reasons but the people who suffer are the citizens. US policy against Cuba, Iraq and North Korea quite possibly have helped keep those people in power. It is like some local election where one candidate can run as the "I'm not the other guy" candidate instead of being seen for what they are worth.

That said, how can we help without it being political? Ping Pong and Sunshine policies have been tried. Isolation is tricky.

How can we go build roads in some country when the nation itself could divert the money to themselves. Montesinos in Peru was taking in over $1 million a year from the US to "fight" the drug war and was known to be actually involved in drug traffic.

Likewise, the US has a long standing policy to avoid from supporting nations who support terrorist groups. No doubt that Saudi Arabia was funding Osama bin Laden and in turn he bought access from other nations in need.

Lest you forget, his family is in the construction business. Either his version of "nation building" is some sort of method to divert some clients to his business or his business dealings are being used as his "sunshine" policy.

No doubt that this was also used to recruit and find support for his skewed vision of the world.

The trick is finding our role, the USA. Heck, we showed how much we care about the Middle East when the govt didn't even have many Farsi speaking people. It hurt the US in not knowing of possble terrorist information and at best it hurt our policy in showing we didn't care enough to try to understand other people's language, and by default, their customs, religion and feelings.

Who could deny the fact that the dealings after WWI acyually lead to WWII? It is almost as sad as watching Batman and Joker blame each other for making the other.

 

I don't know as context is the key, but Lott pointing out how Thurmond's sympathizers see him, and why, doesn't really compare with bring down the WTC site and killing thousands over the years, so stop embarrassing yourselves.

I mean, the only thing left to read from this Murray is "if the world would have taken Osama's views we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years."

You see, conflict is a good thing.
Before marriage, the Roman Cathoilc Church required some marriage classes (in Peru). Well, the group talked about those "perfect" unions where the couple seemed so, I don't know, perfect. They never fight, they never seem to have problems, etc...You sick yet?

Anyway, you must know that you don't see them 24/7. Besides, when people don't argue, that means that one is being dominated. All these "problems" over the years the USA and the world has faced means that more than one interest was being served.

You want world peace?
Well, we need a world dictator who brainwashes the masses and we would never find a reason to question anything. I mean, the issues in Chatanooga, TN should be the same as in Cairo, right?