No one can really be upset a team full of subs didn't put on a great display, but only Juve merda could ignore the fact our most talented player saw only 15 minutes in an apparently useless game and looked more dangerous than any every other player combined this tournament. Non juve merda knew Conte would do this, completely ignore getting Insigne and SES minutes so he could pull a Lippi and stick to his guys. This team has shown nothing offensively for 180 minutes now, but somehow Conte thinks we should be running Ciro " I wasn't terrible 3 years ago" Immobile for 70 minutes. Italy wins today if Inisgne starts. It's that simple.
What does it matter what most posters think? Opinions around here change like the wind. Wasn't that long ago posters were canning Giovinco, Napoli supporters were calling Insigne a provincial hack, Immobile was the next big thing, people demanded Pelle play because of the goals he was scoring in Holland, Candreva must be dropped for Berardi, Marchisio is shit etc I could go on. It is very, very easy to say that the guy on the bench or in the stands is the better player than the XI who are on the teamsheet. Proving that you can perform on the big stage is the truest yardstick. You need to stop hiding behind what-ifs and own what is happening in front of you.
I give credit to Italian players who most the time give their best in these tournaments. But the coach can screw it up. While I think our ragazzi can give everyone a difficult time, I am not expecting much out of them. It is not as if Conte has built this machine over the last two years to give us great confidence.
No excuses vs Spain. We will see what this team and Conte are truly made of. None of this holding back bullshit and not exerting ourselves. Hope the refs do a good job but we were given a favor with that no call for a pk. That was clear as day. Stone wall penalty.
Good post. Sums up most on here. My only real complaint - and its shared universally - is a lack of Insigne this tournament thus far. Its frustrating. The Sturaro and Motta inclusions were frustrating too. But here's the thing: we won our first two games, played a team full of subs tonight, and have proven to be the best defensive side in the tournament. For all the hype he gets, Bernardeschi made a few errors defensively today. Sure, he was beside Sturaro, and he made some wonderful passes, but he just seems like such an enigma right now. Bottom line is this: De Rossi and Juve 3 need to be on the pitch at all times. We rely on them that much. It seems like many on here are waiting (read: hoping) Italy fails. That's sad. This is our team. This is our manager, for better or worse. Support your team and hope for the best instead of waiting to see Conte and the team fall flat on their face. Its pathetic.
It matters because that was the whole point of your comment..."Fact is a number of these players just aren't good enough and this result (Insigne aside) justifies Conte's preferred selections." This is your way of saying that Conte was right in selecting players like Eder, Giacc, and Pelle, and everyone's objections here were wrong. But the other point of your comment is that the subs today proved how Conte made the right decisions in the starting 11. This is a flawed argument. Most of the players who were fielded against Ireland were selections that everyone on these threads was opposed too. So if anything, this is further indictment on Conte. He choose players like Sturaro, Ogbonna, Immobile, and Motta....when no one else wanted to see these guys on the squad. Them playing like shit, only proves that Conte made bad choices everywhere. Giovinco: One guy here is crying that Giovinco should of made the team. No one else cares. He would of made no difference. Insigne: The Insigne attacks came a few years back when he had a lousy season, and irritated Napoli supporters with his antics. That has no bearing on the Euro Cup. Its completely irrelevant. Immobile: After 22 goals at 23 years of age, some people hoped he could become a great player. After two terrible seasons, none of that is relevant to the Euro Cup. Pelle: Very few people were demanding Pelle after his Dutch playing form. Most posters were skeptical and still are. Berardi: There is a huge caveat to this argument as well. People (including me) wanted Berardi to be introduced to the national team so he could take over for Candreva. This was realistic over a year ago, once Conte continued to ignore him, most settled for him just making the team as a backup (for experience). That was the realistic hope when it came to Berardi. Another non-issue. Marchisio: I have no idea who called Marchisio shit. I have always considered him world class. You must be going way back and desperately reaching. I shouldn't engage you because you just want to aggravate people who actually have passion for football.
I don't know if people are waiting/hoping for failure. Just that there is not a great deal of confidence and that is because of Conte. Two years ago, when we exited early from the WC, Pirlo announced his retirement from gli Azzurri. Conte then asked him to change his mind. So early on, Pirlo was the creative force for this team. Then Conte dropped him in the end. I could see him going without Pirlo if he had Marchisio and Verratti but once those two went down, why not Pirlo? And why did he start off the campaign relying on Pirlo and not going with anyone else for that creative role. Verratti was not used early on and then when he was expected to be the main protagonist, he was injured. So now we have a midfield that is not very cohesive. Both De Rossi and Motta are used as holding/defensive midfielders. And it is not as if there is a great support cast to play with either. Our brakes are good on defense. The acceleration up front average. The engine in midfield is struggling. We could all claim that he should have selected this player or that but in his two years, what did Conte form as a style for this team?
Looks like Conte knew what he was doing all along by starting Pelle, Eder, and Giaccherini. They actually got results against better teams meanwhile the second string wasn't too impressive.
I care enough about other peoples opinions to read them and occasionally respond to them but if 90% of posters disagree with something I say it won't change my mind. As far as Conte making "bad choices everywhere". He won us the group with a game to spare so no. I disagree that Gabbs and Jorginho would have made a material difference and the time to introduce them has long past anyway. There's no way to know for sure either way though. What other mystery players did our maladroit coach omit? Disagree with your characterisations of some posters re fan favourites/villains, you've got a short memory it seems. But like I said its not that important. If being passionate for your team means hating on the coach and his selections even when they're winning then you've got it down pat.
I wouldn't put this result in any regard tbh. Italy always shows up against big teams and doesn't against lesser teams. That's always been the case
Besides you being wrong about Gabbiadini and Jorghino, you're missing the point and putting words in our mouths. I'm sure everybody on here wants the best result, regardless of selection. You're using one Belgium result to dismiss all the critics of Conte from pointing out his flaws. I don't think most on here are full-time hating on Conte just yet, at least not until after Spain. But the fact is, we would/could have qualified ahead of Ireland and Sweden, anyway. What annoys me is this blind love and trust of Conte, which was fueled by him somehow consistently getting the results in Serie A. You could call this great intuition and skill on his part, but this is the first real test for Conte, and there are many of us who at the very least are vigilant. Things could have gone differently with a different selection, but you're attributing every positive thing to Conte's genius and selection, while ignoring the obvious negatives. At what point does optimism trump pragmatism? We could have passed group stages, anyway, while avoiding Spain. Yet your optimism doesn't consider this fact, and everything Conte does or touches is right. Conte will be treated like Lippi when he pulls it off, but everyone pragmatic knows this is unlikely. Please don't characterize what I just said as destructive and counterproductive passion.
The only way that could have happened is if we finished in the same spot in our respective groups. But that didn't happen
Pissed we lost to shit Ireland. But I'd rather lose now and it's a damn wake up call to our bench and the starters that played.
Sure, it didn't happen, but it's still a better scenario that the almighty Conte didn't achieve, that others just as easily could have. Albeit I am very happy with the Belgium result. Like I said before, we didn't learn anything. We didn't hide anything. This is my opinion, of course.
How am I wrong about Gabbs and Jorginho? Any assumptions about how we would perform with them is pure speculation. When you consider based on the poll in the other thread that most posters (including me) didn't even think we'd make it out of the group stage. Worst Italian side in history etc. Conte deserves high praise for getting us out of the group phase in the way that he has. I have no problem with criticism, but a lot of it is irrational hate. You seem pretty rational. What is obvious? I agree with Eder over Insigne. I may be the only one but so be it. What is obvious though is that Conte is more qualified than anyone in this forum to make that call. You and I are just fans after all.
why did you vote that in a tournament where 3 pts puts you in good position of advancing? only 2 teams ( albania and turkey ) out of the 4 teams that only attained 3 pts didn't make it to the KO round. and if it wasn't for Ireland scoring a late goal there would have been 3 teams with only 3 pts getting through ( Portugal , Northern Ireland and Turkey as the 3 teams with 3 pts ) along with Slovakia at 4 pts at the top. you didn't think the odds were in Italy's favor despite the new format?
My friend,these players that you mentioned, FLOPPED big time during the U-21 championship. And regarding Candreva, he is a beast of a player and most of our offense comes through him. Without Candreva this team look lost at offense.Plus Candreva will be important against Spain as his crosses in the box will be crucial in order for us to have any chance of scoring from open play.
I don't trust your strikers at all.Does Conte have the balls to play a false 9?Maybe some like Insigne?
Ireland game meant nothing to us. We topped the group with a game to spare. Judge us after the Spain game. If we put in a shit performance then we can mock. I don't want no honourable loss shit either. The time is now. Beat Spain. They're vulnerable as they've showed vs the Czechs and Croats.
He makes a point though. It wasnt long ago that people were bashing Insigne. That was trendy at one point. Many were also either bashing or ignoring Verratti while some of us heralded him as the heir to Pirlo while he was still at Pescara. Some hated the Conte appointment. Meanwhile, some of us gave him a chance. Opinions have swayed like the wind on here - which I've stated before. Ok, you don't like the fact Gabbiadini, Jorginho and Berardi weren't picked. Guess what? I don't either. But I'm also aware that my preferances and selections are subjective and I'm also aware that picking those three over Immobile, Eder and Motta wouldn't have made a significant difference. What we're seeing in this tournament is that the Team aspect trumps the Individual aspect. Its not about great players. Its about great TEAMS. If Conte feels the chemistry and team alignment is proper, then so be it. I wish we had Insigne and Berardi partnered up front with Candreva and Bernardeschi running on the wings, but guess what? I don't necessarily think that would help us win. Nonetheless, still scratching my head about that damn Sturaro pick.... *Also: it's obvious Conte's plan was to rely on defense and thus, Juventus. It was supposed to be the Juve3 with Marchisio right in front. His injury was more detrimental to Conte than Verratti's I imagine.
and he was only paid millions for his efforts too. This is very very short sighted. For one you say conte knew what he was doing, yet you ignore that it was he who called these duds up, players most of us posters said did not deserve to be called up because tney did not earn it with good performances during the season. The second point is, they didn't just play shit because they're shit, they played shit because of Conte, because of his style but more so because he just chucked on 9 players who have never played together before and on an atrocious pitch, in a game that he clearly signalled to his team that he does not give a shit about. not only that, but he clearly transmitted to them jut as I saw it, you guys dont mean shit, you're just making up the numbers. I have already chosen my bum boys and you guys have zero chance of changing my mind no matter how well you play. His comments in Insigne are indicative of that notion. fair point, what those players should have done is flopped in the euros, and then sat on the bench all season long bar a handful of games. LIKE Sturaro!
many dud not bash Verratti, only 2 to my memory were not fans, and one of those makes totally ridiculous claims against him so cannot be taken seriously.
Ya I'm sure he told the starting eleven that right before Ireland, even though all tournament long he's been preaching he has no reserves and everyone on the team is equal and will play a part etc. Your a ********en idiot sometimes. It's clear you hate Conte. Stfu when we beat Spain
I remember a few years ago @Daei_10 saying Marchisio was world class and other posters disagreeing with him over it. Even his fellow Juventini.