Angel had two great stints: With River where he scored 55 goals in 111 matches (almost a goal every two games, remarkable). His second season with Aston Villa when he was the maximum scorer for the club with 16 goals in 33 games, almost the same pace as with River. With the NT he has scored 9 goals in 33 games (like a goal every 3.66 games -remember Colombia is no scoring machine). In comparison, Aristitronco has scored 15 goals in 66 games (wooow, 4.25 games per goal) and Asprilla 20 in 55 (a goal every 2.75 games). Not that I dislike Angel, who I consider a class act, but after scoring 7, 3 and 4 goals in his last three seasons (injuries and all) you can hardly label him as the prolific scorer he once was. Now suddenly he crosses the pond and he's a scoring machine. Don't you think it has something to do with the competition level? I do. I'd rather have him scoring 1 goal every two games with the Celtic (hey the play Champions, they have Rangers and Hearts and Caledonian and so on) than 3 goals every game for the Red Bull. Furthermore, I've seen a couple of his games and he plays at a slower pace than ever seen in England or Argentina, not that he was a sprinter, but you can see how relaxed he is, how easy the game is at the MLS level compared with EPL.
Most definitely the MLS is not played at the same speed as the Premier league but neither is any other league in the world. Being in the MLS has definitely helped JPA and his lack of speed. I mean the guy still still cant take a player one v one. JPA is just having a good scoring run, like forwards do. I don't think it will last.
Is that a trick question? For anyone who isn't aware, the competition level of the EPL is higher than that of MLS. Well, thank God that you are not Juan Pablo's agent. Also, in Scotland the only competition is between Celtic and Rangers. The rest of their teams are at MLS level or below. They play Champions League. So what? Scottish teams of today will never win the UEFA Cup, not to mention the Champions League Trophy. The only other team I'd like to see him on would be Junior de Barranquilla, but then he would be scoring like 5 goals per game (please note that the highest number of goals in one game that Juan Pablo has scored for Red Bull NY is 2 - I wish he scored 3 or more but that will surely come). The game in any other league in the world is easier compared with the EPL. I for one hope that Juan Pablo honors his Red Bull NY contract (3 years). He is already a Hero here and is easily the best player in MLS.
well, I don't know if that is what he is saying, but dapip pointed out that scoring a lot of goals in a league means that that league is inferior, in Angel's case, EPL>MLS (we know that), but then I guess we can also say that MLS>FPC because Galvan Rey (Who played for NY as well) failed while he was there, but was a prolific scorer with Once Caldas not only in Colombia but in Copa Libertadores and now with Nacional (top scorer for the league this season with Montero) When Angel used to play with Aston Villa, he did score several goals in a single game, I believe he had a had trick but not in the EPL, it was in the FA cup, while they were playing a second division team, also in his first year or so with Villa, they played in EUFA cup, not champions league, and he also scored a few goals, I think it was 3, so back between the 2001/2002 and 2002/2003 seasons Villa had a pretty decent team with a good midfield that suited JPA well, but after the injury he fell out of rhythm, not only with himself but with the rest of the team. I still say it has to do more with the team that surrounds a particular player, in the case of Galvan, Atl. Nacional has a better midfield than NY had back then. And I think NYRBs as a team play better for the level of the MLS than what Aston Villa as a team play for the level of EPL. Same thing can be said for Atl. Nacional, they play better as a team for the level of FPC than NY metros used to play for the level of MLS back then. just my .02 cents.
Good point by Pibe, I guess that is a combination of everything, but remember at this stage of his career Angel was barely consider as a sub for Aston, now he's MLS's best player???? Isn't that a significant drop in the talent pool? And Galvan was disliked by his coach as Angel was in several stints with Aston Villa. If you don't fit the game plan, well you'll die at the end of the bench. Anyway I understand that is not a simple equation and that scoring is not the only factor, but you have to see how easily Angel adapted to MLS. Basically my speculation is that if a guy who is not even playing in EPL is the MLS player of the month, talent (or lack of it) has something to do with it. What about Donovan, wasn't he kind of a failure in Europe and the current MVP? And the MLS is who? NY, Dallas and Kansas, maybe the Galaxy. In this case is not about winning, but about facing top competitors and having a chance at least to make it out of the group round. Heart will play the qualification round, Rangers, Gretna will play UEFA cup. Again, I know that probably to make it out of the group round is the goal, but I'd rather see Angel playing against Partizan, Betsikas, Alkmaar or some other euroteam, than being MLS's MVP. Well, if Angel goes back to Colombia, my guess is that he'll play for Nacional again, but if past competition has showed something is that MLS is still far from SA leagues, probably he'll be still a top scorer, but more in the mold of the top scorers of the league at 1 goal every two games, not two goals every game.
we wont know that till he gets another shot at the NT, also im a bit skeptical after Toja is like one of the best players in the league too... but I think they should get a call up against Mexico in August test out the level of US, look how good the US NT is and all their players are home based basically because the ones in europe arent starters. Mexico are mostly all home based and are just getting by with help from the refs and luck and everyone wants mexi based players on the NT, why not MLS? The level cant be that diff from Mexico if the US NT is better. Why not give Toja a shot or Angel. Angel has what he has been missing since he left River, A MIDFIELD !!!
No, that's not what I'm saying at all (although by dadip's logic, that would be the case). Both leagues are just different. There is a reason why Sergio Galvan Rey was 'El Rey del Gol' with Once Caldas (and now with Atletico Nacional) and was the biggest pice of crap with the MetroStars. I would chalk it down to better midfields in Colombia and the fact that alot of Colombian club team defenders 'dejan jugar'. In the EPL and, to a lesser extent, MLS, defenders won't let you travel halfway up the field with the ball (y no digan que no es asi, as I see this time and time again in the Colombian League via Gol TV). Other players that have failed with the MetroStars include Rubencho and Alex Comas, both players scoring over 30 goals in the Colombian league before coming to MLS. Juan Pablo is succeding in MLS because, compared to the EPL, he has time to play. I would predict that if he played in Colombia right now he would have a greater goals per game average than in MLS. El Tren Valencia was also great with the MetroStars but he was a Juan Pablo type player and had experience playing in the always tough Bundesliga.
The reason that Juan Pablo was 'barely considered a sub for Aston' was that he was going through a bad moment. He was missing sitters, including penalties. In England, if you can't get it done, you sit. Aston Villa had Carew, Agbonglahor & Sutton - guys who were getting it done. And Galvan Rey being disliked by his coach? From my observation of Galvan Rey (watching him play in person with the MetroStars, then on Goal TV with Atletico Nacional), he is the type of player that needs a tremendous pass into space to score, not the type of player that could take MLS defenders on and beat them (like 'El Pitufo' De Avila, a MetroStars Hero, could). He wasn't getting that in MLS and failed. He gets better service in Colombia plus (and again this is my observation) Colombian league defenders don't challenge like MLS defenders do. You ask who is MLS is and then you mention Scottish 'equipitos' whose goal is to just get out of the group stage of the UEFA Cup? Yeah, I'm sorry South Florida doesn't have an MLS team you can support dadip but those are the breaks. I'm fully commited to supporting my local MLS team and am greateful that Juan Pablo has chosen to come to my team. Purely selfish of me, I know, but, unlike Landon Donovan, Juan Pablo's time with the Colombian National Team might be at an end and I'm glad. Hopefuly he's fully committed to Red Bull for the next three years. I disagree with you there (please see my previous post). Angel would be scoring 5 per game if he went back to Colombia now.
5 per game? that's a bit of a stretch, maybe 1 per game with 2 here and there is more likely......but 1 per game guranteed.
But if your MLS is soo good, Angel should have been able to bounce back right away and probably in your perception he's near his best form in his most productive years. Puleaze... We both know Angel is in the downside of his career and only a fraction of what he used to be. Still enough to be MLS's MVP. To be honest with you, you might be right, who the heck follows MLS ? Galvan Rey is an opportunistic scorer who half the time is off-side. If he does not get minutes and crosses and if his coach does not like that style, well he'll langish. Not my favorite player anyways. You not only support your team, you are buying the kool aid too. Ask my countrymen and I am very hard about the level of FPC, but we are still years ahead of MLS in many respects. How does MLS fare when facing the mediocre competition of CONCACAF teams? In the meanwhile Colombian teams usually advanced deep into their tournaments despite a busy schedule, poor refereeing and lack of money. Probably he'll have a few good games and a Hat-trick, but mostly in the above-mentioned pace of one goal every two games.
Listen dapip, you might think I'm an idiot for following MLS but, hey, so be it then. I never said MLS was so good. If you read my previous posts, I compared the level of MLS play to that of Scottish teams not named Celtic or Rangers. Also, I've followed Juan Pablo's career since Atletico Nacional and in no way do I perceive that he's 'near his best form in his most productive years'. It's no secret that he's on the downside of his career, hence his not being taken into account by the Aston Villa manager. MLS is a step down from the EPL, that's no secret. He's scoring for my team and, in my opinion, is the best player in MLS right now. Puleaze yourself... Yes, yes, every other league in the world is better than MLS and Juan Pablo is certainly wasting his time here. So because you don't follow MLS, then no one else does? Great logic guy! I'll agree with you on Galvan Rey. Methinks it is you who are buying the koolaid here. Let's not kid ourselves here - the best players from South America don't play on South American club teams. That Cucuta Deportivo can advance so far in the Libertadores says alot. Did you see what I just wrote: Cucuta Deportivo. Also, In Colombia, don't you think it says alot that el Atletico Huila, Huila, Huila was in la gran final contra unos de los grandes. MLS teams only have problems against Mexican League teams, as the rest of concacaf is mediocre. I would predict that the best MLS teams would compete quite well in the Libertadores right now and would be even better competition for top South American teams (like Cucuta Deportivo) in just a few short years. He would be a machine scoring goals at a torrid pace.
I don't think the MLS is as bad or as good as folks are writing about here. It's getting better for sure and JPA has clearly made it his mission to help that happen. God bless him for it - the US needs better soccer. JPA has always been about challenges. When he picked Villa, his objective was to resucitate a sleeping giant. He may have failed to make that happen, but for some periods he did spark revivals (see 01 and 03). This season he started out in great form, but his confidence hit the floor when he missed a pen and scored an own goal in the same game midway through the season and he was benched. At the same time, Villa signed two younger and faster strikers (in Carew and Young) and the writing was on the wall - it wasn't an indictment of JPA, he played six years in England, name another Latin born striker thats done that in modern football! Now he's come to the states and he's started off great, I wish we'd celebrate his triumphs rather an waste energy arguing how poor the MLS is.
we also have to cut JPA some slack, he never had valderrama like asprilla, valencia, aristi, and valenciano did.
Lets say that we agree in that Juan Pablo is a superb talent on the downside of his career and that MLS is doing things right and slowly but surely becoming a competitive league. But he is no longer world class, neither your league one of the top five in this side of the Atlantic. If you find it entertaining, well kuddos to you. I'll stick to my FPC and watch European and Argentinian leagues and Libertadores and Champions.
I never really thought about it like that. It's to bad, but we need someone to step up as far as our offense is concerned. And I'm talking about the midfield up. In the last qualifiers we scored a total of 24 goals which is not that bad but 13 of those goals were scored in 3 games, the other 11 goals in 15 games.
prob goin to get shit for this but if Pino keeps getting better and does what he did in the youth Cup with remotely competent strikers and we will have a midy better than Pibe. Pino needs time, experience and to be less selfiish but the truth is u would be too if u give 7-8 passes that should end up at goals and ur bone head strikers just look at the ball with out kickin.
Lo que demuestra eso es que Colombia tiene la calidad pero como en las dos ultimas eliminatorias nosotros comensamos a jugar con corazon cuando ya es demasiado tarde.
I just hate that its always the same schedule, its so stupid. In recent history we start with Brazil at home, which is not much of an advantage, Bolivia in La Paz which is no more but was always very difficult in the past, Venezuela at home which was suppose to be the easy game, and Argentina at home which is also very difficult. 3 of the first 4 games are at home 2 of which are against 2 of the best teams in the world. Not to mention we suck at home! I don't know why they don't change it up. To get 6 points out of the first 4 games is pretty tough as far as I see it.
if we play in bogota we should be use to the altura and should beat Boliva or at least tie them same with Brasil and Argentian if we play at home. We tied Arg the last time because Oscar FUccked big time., and Venezuela should be a sure win. We should have at least 6 points 1 win (ven) and at least 3 ties tho I am hoping for 2 wins(Arg and Boliva, as well as the brasil game is possible). Its not so much that we cant win all the games it was Maturana was an awful coach, think with Pinto and the players he has at the moment our team will be back to #3 of SA in no time, becuase we should have qualified last time if Rueda was the coach the whole way threw
I hear your pain. I agree with you as well. The funny thing is that Colombia has been trying to change the fixture, but has not gathered much support. Guess who opposes changing the calendar??? I'll give a hint, the usual suspects. I heard that Colombia couldn't get nothing done because Arg and Bra were pulling their strings behinds the scene to influence a majority vote to vote against the fixture change. Life sucks!!
Agreed. We have at least top four talent.....Hopefully we can put things together and make it to the next WC