Juan Agudelo training with VfB Stuttgart, Liverpool...

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Hobo, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Ironkick14

    Ironkick14 Member+

    Sep 29, 2011
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. trophy case

    trophy case Member

    Feb 8, 2008
    new york
    I wouldn't say Freddy is a failure because he is still a good player. What is killing Freddy right now is poor training habits and arrogance. If he humbles himself and do all the right things, he can be good again.
    Juan on the other hand is pretty level headed and knows what he needs to do. He is doing really well at Liverpool and I really hope the MLS thinks about his development and let him go.
     
  3. Major Major

    Major Major Member

    Jul 20, 2011
    Colorado
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While Freddy isn't a monumental failure, I would say anything less than being in a top league (read top 5 or 6) is a failure considering the hype that surrounded him as a kid. Right now, he isn't even performing well in MLS.
     
  4. Ironkick14

    Ironkick14 Member+

    Sep 29, 2011
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which was the point of my post, and good player or no, he was once touted as the best American ever at age 14. He failed to meet expectations.
     
  5. Friedel'sAccent

    Friedel'sAccent Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Providence, RI
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Folks, this isn't a Freddy Adu thread. (Way too much) Past experience indicates that these things can get out of hand quickly, so I'm nipping it in the bud.
     
  6. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    Damn!! And I had just bought my popcorn...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. El Michael

    El Michael Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
  8. Walla K1d

    Walla K1d New Member

    Jun 19, 2011
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Hah you win some, you lose some, and sometimes it rains.. Think about that one. :D
     
  9. robdawgie

    robdawgie Member

    Jun 1, 2009
    Indianapolis, IN
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you insinuating that Liverpool is interested in Juan? I'd take that as gold coming from you.

    This MLS attitude of refusing to sell players to promising locations is very disappointing. It will hurt them in the long run, especially if a younger budding talent decided to throw a fit over it.

    Guys like Gyau, Renken, Lletgett, etc have made the correct decision in not going the MLS route. They're on the verge of a breakout in Europe 5 years before some of their Bradenton teammates wil even have the chance.
     
  10. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Young talent might bypass MLS altogether, if they don't become more flexible at some point.
     
  11. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    Yeah, he clearly was not making a play on words there...it was a pretty clear statement.
     
  12. usry723

    usry723 Member+

    Aug 14, 2008
    Georgia, USA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was talking about cliches. Not Charlie Davies.
     
  13. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Which is of course, classic BS. There are plenty of examples of young, promising players, bypassing MLS entirely or getting let go too young; joining a big club and getting swallowed whole. But that's an easy one to forget, as the promise of the next big thing always outweighs the reality, even if that reality is getting closer to fulfillment. The quality of training in MLS is improving, and it doesn't necessarily improve your chances of making it at Liverpool, Benfica or Villareal just by being there. Plenty of youth players at those clubs don't make it at all, or only become established at lesser clubs. The attitude should be that Agudelo will move when he's ready to be successful. From what I saw of him last season, he's not ready.

    At this point in his career, he's not a lock starter. Thus, when he comes into a match, or gets the odd start, he has to be an impact player in limited time. He was in stretches, but not consistently. You couldn't assumed that when he entered the game, the Red Bulls were going to score. And there were times when he needed to be that player and wasn't. That may seem like a harsh indictment, really it's just pointing out that he has room to develop within his present situation in NY, because, if anything, the pressure to produce will be greater in Europe. If he's not a starter next season, then he has to be the Red Bulls super-sub. At 19, after two years as a pro, he has to transition from being a young talent to a consistent professional. That's reality.
     
  14. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There will be your Marc Pelosi's and there will be your Luis Gil's. Some young talent will be ready to go abroad at 18 and try their luck. But there will always be young talent not ready to up and leave the country and will opt to sign with MLS. These players like Agudelo, Gil, and McInerney sign a 4-5 year contract at the age of 17. Leaving to Europe at 21-22 with a couple years of playing time and professional maturing isnt the end of the world

    In the end, my point is we will always see some young talents that want to go abroad ASAP and some who opt for home. Not to mention their teammates from Bradenton might not have the options abroad that others do. MLS will always be an option for young talent and MLS/Adidas will pay them well to do so (by MLS standards of pay).
     
  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're in Yanks Abroad. Look around. Your assertion here is total bullshit. MLS sold Edu, they sold Adu. They sold Johnson, they sold Altidore. They sold Beasley, they sold Dempsey. They sold Bradley, they sold Arguez. They sold Perkins, they sold Guzan. And on and on and on and ********ing on.

    Let's nip this lying tangent in the bud, folks.
     
  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    It's something people say that has no meaning.

    When MLS receives what they consider a good offer for a player, they let him go. When they don't (say Charlton's bid for Dempsey or Celtic's laughable bid for Shalrie Joseph).....they keep the player. MLS isn't going to give their prized assets away out of the goodness of their hearts.

    Juan Agudelo is 19 year old with 6 career goals. If he was sold to Liverpool (or some such club) he'd be in their reserves. So he and his advisors would need to decide what's better for him: playing time with RBNY or training/reserve time with a "big" club. I'm not a person that thinks getting to a "big" club in Europe as quickly as possible is necessarily the best option for all players. There's no one formula for success.
     
  17. pate

    pate Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    Provo, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except that he's not starting or getting much playing time at RBNY ...
     
  18. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    No situation is permanent. He wasn't starting or getting significant playing time last season. With the maturity and development that only his off season can offer I do believe this will change next season. To what extent is anyone's guess. He needs to stay with NY Red Bulls and learn to fight for playing time.
     
  19. Major Major

    Major Major Member

    Jul 20, 2011
    Colorado
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Agudelo really is in Backe's dog house, as some have suggested, then another club might be a better choice if he is still going to ride pine. Sitting on his ass in MLS is no better than the same in Europe, so it would make sense that he would need to get out of that situation.
     
  20. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sitting on his ass in NY is worse than sitting on his ass at, say, Stuttgart. First thing Juan commented on was the training environment. I have confidence in the coaching/training/tactical acumen of a few MLS clubs, and NY aint on that list.
     
  21. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mathis
    Twellman
    Donovan
    Kljestan
    Joseph
    DeRo
    Ream

    respectfully disagree. It's not bullshit. Some players have been sold at a good time. Some have been sold later then they wanted. Some were never sold, and left for free at a later date. And some were held against their will, for much longer periods of time.
     
  22. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS (and any other team) is under no obligation to sell players when they want to leave.
     
  23. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously there's a balance there. MLS does not exist purely for creating the best possible USA national team.

    I think, however, we all agree MLS' existence is very beneficial for the USA national team. If the MLS goes south in part for selling American players for less than market value, USA national soccer will be harmed in the long run. Thus, it is better for the national team if MLS hinders the development of some USA players for the success of MLS as a whole :)
     
  24. derek750

    derek750 Member+

    Apr 16, 2007
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. You can just as easily argue that the buying club must not have wanted those players very badly if they didn't meet MLS's valuation. The league is rightly concerned about being viewed like this:
    [​IMG]
     
  25. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    I think part of the contention is that MLS may over-value some players. They would not be alone in this as other clubs all over the world tend to play the negotiating game too. That's football. But there is a widely held belief, especially in Europe, that MLS tends to (perhaps initially) over-value its players when compared to similar players in Europe.
     

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