Josh Wolff vs Draft Pick

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by AndyMead, Jun 17, 2003.

  1. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I think we got hosed. 2 goals in 11 games?

    First Round Draft picks
    1) Eskandarian, 8 games, 344 minutes, 2 goals, 1 assist
    2) Ricardo Clark, 10 games, 920 minutes, 2 yellow cards
    3) Nate Jacqua, 6 games. 106 minutes, 1 assist
    4) Mike Magee, 10 games, 733 minutes, 3 goals
    5) David Stokes has not played (but does dress for games)
    6) Todd Dunivant, 9 games, 830 minutes, 1 goal, 2 assists
    7) Diego Walsh, 6 games, 139 minutes, 2 yellow cards, 1 red card
    8) Memo Gonzalez is with the US U17s
    9) Pat Noonan, 8 games, 310 minutes, 3 assists
    10) Shavar Thomas has not played

    Josh Wolff, 6 games 454 minutes, 2 goals, 1 assist, 1 yellow card

    Who knows who we would've drafted, or whether or not Bob would have played them, but I'm still not convinced that this trade was for the best.
     
  2. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    SKC/STL
    Aug 29, 2001
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Mid June is too early to review any trade.
     
  3. kckicker23

    kckicker23 Member

    Jun 10, 2003
    KC
    I agree completely. Don't forget that Wolff was coming off a pretty serious injury, and now that he and Simu are teaming together, I can only see things getting better. I think we got the better of this deal in the long run.
     
  4. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    True, yet Wolff is highly overrated as a scorer. To think some fans wanted to keep him instead of Razov is ridiculous.

    Razov has 5 goals in 6 games and Wolff will be fortunate to get 10 this year.
     
  5. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    But I think you have to take into consideration the needs of the team. In this case, a striker.

    In that case, who could we have picked up with our pick of those guys thats a striker?

    We would have had #3 IIRC???

    The only person I see there is Mike Magee. But, think about it this way. We knew Wolff could produce if healthy. Metro's only thought Magee would produce. That and he wasnt slated to be a starter. Only Moreno going down put him in.

    I'd say the only thing we gave up with Wolff is the intangible of potential.
     
  6. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, Wolff is one of those players whose value can't be measured solely by statistics. Our team has so many people who can score-Preki, Klein, Simunte-- Igor, Quill, Gomez and even Conrad. Wolff's speed can stretch the defense, opening up more spaces behind the back line of the defense.

    Who would we have got that we needed in the spot? Didn't need a D-mid, as great as Clark is. Dunivant would have been a good choice, but all of our starting backline (to start the season) is young (Jose, Nick, Jimmy.) We don't need Walsh. Maybe Pat Noonan.

    Wolff brought immediate respect to our front line and defenses truly fear his speed. He has 2 goals in the 2 full games he's played, right? Let's revisit this question in 4 months.
     
  7. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    When he's scored two more goals? or will he have played two more full games by that time? ;)
     
  8. KCSoccerSpot

    KCSoccerSpot New Member

    Mar 30, 2002
    Harrisonville, MO
    I took issue with picking up Josh when the deal was made but in hind sight, he has been able to bring something to the game that is not completely supported by statistics... recognition. The boys in blue HAVE been able to put a bunch in the net in spite of the short comings of Wolff (reminds me alot of the 2000 Wizards... you might stop one but you can't stop them all) but none of our forwards other than Wolff have a name that would even remotely be considered as well known. Sometimes its not what you put on the scoreboard but how many butts you put in the seats that count. I know this won't hash with the true fans of the game but that is just part of reality.
     
  9. alf

    alf Member+

    Jun 29, 1999
    Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    ........ until his next injury.
     
  10. dgb09

    dgb09 Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    Overland Park, KS
    One thing to consider about Wolff is that he does bring some legitimate star power to the Wizards. His good work on the US National team makes him a pretty well known name.

    Recently my wife and I moved back to KC from Georgia. I mentioned going to Wizards games and she surprised me with a comment about seeing Wolff in blue. She had read about the trade or I mentioned it to her a while back. Either way, she remembered.

    My point: She probably wouldn't have remembered anything about drafting someone named Magee. There are likely other peripheral soccer fans in KC that will want to see Wolff play based on what he's done for the Fire and Nats.
     
  11. Van Buren

    Van Buren New Member

    Sep 26, 2002
    Kansas City, Mo
    the criticism on wolff-person is legit and warranted. but we're not playing for 1st place in june. In order to win a trophy, you have to have some high-risk, high-reward players who are hot at the right time.

    Championship teams have these players, like molnar in 2000, to go along with your steady unspectacular players like zavagnin, for instance.

    I think at the end of this season, we can make a fair judgement on this trade, but I like the gamble made by the suits on wolff. when he's healthy again (hopefully this will happen) we'll see him back in the usmnt fold as well.
     
  12. Bethany

    Bethany New Member

    Sep 3, 2002
    Doesn't that usually happen right before the playoffs?
     
  13. stopper4

    stopper4 Member

    Jan 24, 2000
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You Fire fans are a loyal and classy bunch, I must say.
     
  14. Turk from Pigs Eye

    Turk from Pigs Eye New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    Pigs Eye (St. Paul),
    One down side of Wolff vs. Magee that hasn't been mentioned is the difference in salaries, around $100,000. You could get a pretty good player for that.
     
  15. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    Lubos Kubik is the greatest defender in MLS history.
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I agree. He's the only Dallas player smart enough to stay away from Dema.
     
  17. BerwynBlazers

    BerwynBlazers Member

    Jul 23, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    just wait till wolff gets hurt
     
  18. Van Buren

    Van Buren New Member

    Sep 26, 2002
    Kansas City, Mo
    geez, firefans, bitter much?

    It's not like wolff-person was a bad guy. Most of us said good riddance to Lassiter, but he was one of the biggest arseholes in sports. I don't dislike Henderson or preki in 2001 with Miami, etc.

    It's the astroturf field, isn't it? I'd be cranky too.
     
  19. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    They've earned their bitterness. Wolff is to them like Onandi Lowe is to us. Both of them could absolutely dominate games, but you could never be assured that they would play (be it physical injury, or mental problems).

    They know Wolff's potential, but a cold hard look at his career stats in Chicago: 84 games, 5,810 minutes, 32 goals and 15 assists. (playoffs: 6, 282, 0, 0) don't exactly scream "maximum salary".

    Most of his value in KC so far is in the tangible off-the-field putting butts in seat variety. And I'm cool with that. But as someone who wants a better product on the field, I don't know that his salary is worth what we'll see. Sure he's good enough, but history (Chicago, USMNT) has yet to show him there in the clutch.

    Onandi Lowe: 13 games, 1,034 minutes, 4 goals, 3 assists. 3, 270, 2, 0 against Miami in the playoffs.
     
  20. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Wolff: 1 goal every 181 minutes
    Lowe: 1 goal every 258 minutes
    Preki: 1 goal every 248 minutes
    Lassiter: 1 goal every 156 minutes
    Kreis: 1 goal ever 215 minutes


    So by these numbers Wolff (Lassiter a little more often) scores every other game and Preki and Lowe just under every three games....

    That doesnt tell me Wolff is all that bad an acquisition. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Stats can be made to argue anything. :)
     
  21. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Let's play the "statistics" game.

    Chicago played 150 regular season games during the "Josh Wolff" era.

    32 goals in 150 games is much worse. If you're paying him - it doesn't matter whether he's on the field or not - does it?

    Preki had 3 more goals and 48 more assists in the same time frame. And is paid less, and is a midfielder not a forward. With Wolff you have to factor in the games he misses due to injury or National Team duty. It's part of the "package".
     
  22. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    I know, I know....I was just making a point that the "statistics" game can be used to "prove" just about anything.

    If you want production per minutes played, Wolff kicks ass.
    If you want minutes played and goals scored per dollar paid, hes not all that great.
     
  23. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Agreed. I'm not really convinced either way on Wolff at this point. I'm just playing the devil's advocate.

    As a fan I can choose to only worry about winning and losing, but I do recognize the "star" value of having a Josh Wolff on the roster. It's just not something I have to worry about of factor into my thinking about the trade if I don't want to.

    He's definitely got the skill to lead us to a title. But then, so did Onandi Lowe.
     
  24. ojsgillt

    ojsgillt Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lee's Summit MO
    I'd take injury proned than lack of effort proned anyday.
     
  25. FireAddict

    FireAddict Member

    Nov 15, 2000
    Grayslake, IL
    Show me Damani! (Ralph) 8 games, 4 goals, 3 game winners! Picked down in the second round!
     

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