John Henry's Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Bobinhood, Apr 2, 2011.

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  1. Bobinhood

    Bobinhood Member

    Apr 22, 2005
    Toronto
    It April now. January's so old school.

    I need to know who we are buying as soon as anybody can tell me. :D

    Permutations are mind boggling.

    I would like 1 Striker 1 LB 1 LW 1 CB of a very good quality.

    Then, the "Cull" replaced by perhaps slightly fewer, but better depth players.

    If we are supposed to be self-financing but debt free thats 40 million plus sales. I'm calling on FSG to advance another 20 on top of that in recognition of the teams needs. 60 plus sales. To get 4 players and replace the Departed both.

    Its not Rome in a day either, 4 players.
     
  2. ULL NEVER WALK ALONE

    Sep 29, 2004
    Chile
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    If there is anything we need to improve, its our midfield/wide players. Width is what we really lack, and our CM are very poor.

    I don't think we need a new CB and CF with much urgency.

    Agger/Skrtel/Wilson/Coady/Carragher should be enough in that deparment. What really hurt us all season is the fact that we had to use our CB's as full backs. That's our true weakness, no left sided full backs. Our CB's (mentioned before) should cope, and i think Wilson should get a look there as a natural Agger replacement.

    What we need upfront is not a CF, what we need is width. From what we have seen from Kenny, we will play with 1 CF (Carroll, Suarez or Kuyt could fill in). What we need is quick players who can play off the main striker, and cause damage.

    And in CM, i've been mentioning it for a while. The club needs to spend big here, because we don't seem to have great CM coming threw the ranks. Young, hungry players would do nicely.
     
  3. Suss

    Suss Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Add Martin Kelly to the list of potential CB's because that was his natural position. However, none of those players are a sure thing. Agger is constantly injured, Skrtel has had a poor season, Carragher is aging, and the rest are young and unproven. We should be pursuing a reliable CB in the transfer market.
     
  4. lcstriker11

    lcstriker11 Member

    Jun 9, 2008
    Wisconsin
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Perfect time for this thread! After everyone but United dropped points today, I decided to do a bit of research to compare our fortunes relative to the other five big clubs this season, since it's sort of been a clusterf***.

    Essentially, I searched how many matches each of the "Big 6" has dropped points in, and whether those matches were draws or losses. Then I labeled egregious point drops for each team, defined by dropping points to a club that is currently in the bottom nine (I figured that these were the clubs that could realistically be relegated, and these were the matches each of the "Big 6" would typically be expected to win home and away). I also labeled critical points, defined by points earned or lost against another club in the “Big 6”.

    Findings:

    - Each of the "Big 6" has at least 5 egregious drops, except Arsenal with 4. Predictably, we have the most with 9, and Tottenham has 8.

    - Each of the "Big 6" has dropped points in at least 12 matches, us again bringing up the rear with 18 matches.

    - Besides us, none of the “Big 6” has more than 7 losses, United has the least with 3. We’re have a whopping 12.

    - In relation to the last bullet, we have the least amount of draws, at 6. Spurs have 11, while United have 9.

    - Each of the “Big 6” has dropped points in at least 8 away matches, while each has dropped points in at least 4 home matches (except United, swaying the refs to the tune of just one home match with dropped points). Our dropped points have come in 12 away matches and 6 home matches.

    - We had just one win (hosting West Brom) in our first eight matches. It’s not necessarily related to the findings, but I felt I should add it because it is so shocking and depressing.

    - In terms of critical matches (those against “Big 6” clubs), we are second only to United. We have won three critical matches (United, Chelsea twice), lost three (City, Spurs, United), and drawn one (Arsenal). We average roughly 1.3 points in these matches, good for second. United leads with an average of 1.5, while City sucks with an average of 0.75 (Arsenal close though, with 0.86).

    Conclusions:

    Obviously, it didn’t take this bit of research to realize that we play poorly against those bottom nine relegation candidates. Most of us here have also already realized that we are great at getting up for the big matches, so no revelations there.

    I think the biggest take-away is the number of losses compared to draws. Whereas the other big clubs are able scrap out those close matches, we have trouble. The number of away matches that we’ve dropped points in (12) is not much different than the other clubs (11, 8, 10, 9, 10), but the important thing is that we are losing more of those matches than our counterparts. We have dropped points in more matches total than the other clubs (we’ve dropped in 18 matches), but I think it’s fair to give Roy credit for the difference there, since it’s not a significant difference.

    In my opinion, our depth is the biggest problem. Yes, we have of gaps that need to be filled with real class, but the fact that we come to play against the big boys shows that we have quality, and I don’t see that as the primary issue. The fact that we struggle against the little guy shows a lack of depth when injuries strike, and not enough concentration. More quality on the bench means more enthusiastic guys champing at the bit to play, which could be a shot in the arm against the minnows. And I think that given a full season with Kenny rather than the half with Roy, we'd be in the top four with the squad we have right now, so with a few changes at key positions, I think we'll be comfortable.

    So, to bring this full circle, I want to apply my conclusions to our outlook in the transfer window. I’m going to assume we don’t overtake Spurs for fifth place (although crazier things have happened) and we miss out on European football next season – for what it’s worth, I think it’s Champions League or bust, the Europa is not worth the trouble in my opinion, so not much of a loss there.

    If we don’t have Europe to worry about, we start the season in three competitions – Carling Cup, FA Cup, and the league. Importantly, that means we aren’t fighting on as many fronts, and theoretically should not need as much depth as we’ve required in the past. Now, don’t take that the wrong way – I do not think that we can afford less depth next season. I simply think that it allows us to take a bit more time in the building process, to be more measured and careful.

    Which brings me to the point of this whole convoluted she-bang. I do not think an “overhaul” is as necessary as some others may think, nor do I think it is practical. Would I like to see us go spend £80mil+ this summer? Hell yes I would! In that case, go get me some combination of Sanchez, Coentrao, Hazard, Kjaer and Gervinho (in that order...)! But, if that doesn’t happen, I would be satisfied with spending big on two of those players, finding a different third at a good value, and then committing to finding quality depth. And I don’t think this all has to happen this summer.
     
  5. lcstriker11

    lcstriker11 Member

    Jun 9, 2008
    Wisconsin
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    FWIW, here’s my conservative idea, if the owners decide to take a measured, two-season, 3-window approach.

    In the summer window:

    - In this order, try to get rid of Konchesky, Poulsen, Jova, Degen, Cole, and Acquilani (if Juve won’t/can’t take him)

    - Target two world-class, instant-impact players, at any of four positions – LW, LB, CM, CB (in that order, IMO), and be willing to spend £40-50mil to do it

    - Commit to finding high-quality depth all over the pitch (my order of preference: CB, LB, LM/RM, CM, ST) at a good value (£2-7mil)

    January window next season:

    - Commit £20mil (or thereabouts) to one of those two world-class position guys that you didn’t find in the summer

    - Bulk up depth wherever it wasn’t addressed in the summer

    Summer window next season (assuming we reach the champions league):

    - Sell Maxi and anyone else who isn’t up to par (mainly, Skrtel and possibly Glen if we’ve addressed the outside defender problem already)

    - Find that last world-class guy that you didn’t get at one of those four positions, probably for about £20-25mil

    - Shore up the defense depending on what the situation is, for about £10-15mil

    - Find a luxurious attacking game-changer for £15-20mil

    - Plug any holes


    Then we head into the Champions league two years from now with something looking like this:

    ------------------------------------Reina-------------------------------------
    -------------World-Class guy-----------------Agger---------------------
    Kelly--------------------------------------------------------World-Class guy
    ----------------------Lucas/World-Class guy-------------------------------
    Kuyt/World-Class guy-------------------------------------World-Class guy
    ----------------------------------------Gerrard------------------------------
    ------------------------Suarez----------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------Carroll----------------------------------------

    Bench: Some GK, Wilson/some CB, some LB/RB, Lucas/some CM, Pacheco, some wide player, Kuyt/ST
     
  6. Chimaera

    Chimaera Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    La Plata, Maryland
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    they need talent. period. match winning talent. Really doesn't matter where it is (though wide players, then a DM, CB, and maybe a left back would be where i start, though if Baines wants to come over I'm down) just need class players.
     
  7. Vasu

    Vasu Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Well, look on the bright side folks, atleast we seem to have solved our problem of too many draws against the smaller clubs. We've begun losing to 'em.
     
  8. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Lets send him on loan to Juve as that's done wonders for Aquilani's fitness :p
     
  9. el-capitano

    el-capitano Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 30, 2005
    Sydney
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Is January over? I should really get around to flipping that desk calender over, eh? ;)
     
  10. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Well, the first thing we'll need is a new goalkeeper. Then we need a left-sided midfielder and a central midfielder. Then we need to ship out the dross. Then we'll have depth issues, because there's a lot of dross. So we'll probably only ship some of it out this summer.
     
  11. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    So he's going, then?

    Not only is it dross but high-maintenance dross, also known in some circles as deadweight loss.
     
  12. Chimaera

    Chimaera Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    La Plata, Maryland
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Well, if they want to ship it out, they can do so, but they're going to have to eat the salary and not get much money back.


    I do think Reina's gone. I think it's pretty much writing on the wall. I don't read much into how players react, but it just seems that he's unhappy. I think he's trying to let us down easy, with the big tell all "I'm not sure I will stay, and I would think about so and so routine" articles and avoid the Torres torment. Because as much as some might deny it, when a group of supporters who loved you and pretty much worshiped you all turn against you, it can make it hard for a player. Especially if they stay in the same league.

    Obviously, a keeper is priority #1. though, I do think you'll start seeing our scouts and staff start to go see some clubs where there's a goalie who might fit our needs within the month.

    I think after that, width/creativity/pace all in one needs to be the priority. That should be a wide player, though, I'm not picky to the point of saying it must be a winger or a left sided player. I think that fits best, but I wouldn't be completely against other options. If you go get say, Cavani, he adds pace and can widen the front line by playing outwide a bit. Not a pure winger, but he can play a 3 striker formation. I would like Sanchez, Turan, Hazard or the like, but I would never complain if we got Young or Johnson (especially Johnson).

    After that, I'm buying a holding midfielder. I like Lucas, and I think he does a job, but he's not a masher. He's not a closer, and he doesn't clean up the trash like Mascherano was able to do. The reason we ever were great on some nights in recent past had a lot to do with having a player in the middle that could snuff out attacks and get us the ball back. Sideline to sideline, end the attacks there. There's no way West Brom has all that kinda possession in our half with menance with Mascherano on the pitch. No way. MVila's my top choice. He wants to go, he's young, he's talented. He actually has a bit of offensive upside. He's 20 years old, and already one of the top choices for France's holding midfielder for the next run. Sure, there are going to be a lot of suitors, but I think they can get it done with our French connections.

    I think leftback needs to be addressed. Is Johnson really the top choice there? Although Baines is playing for the wrong club right now, and I know they won't want to do business with us, I do think he would want to come over. Not to mention the fact that they still have debt to address. If not him, I'm fine with Enrique or a few other options.

    I think they need to sort the Agger situation. Is he going to ever be healthy enough? Can Ayala, Wilson, Kelly or someone deputize enough to where they can pick it up right off?

    After that, if Marveaux's not coming, or Adam, or whoever, they still need to find another quality option. Somewhere.

    Then, I'm going young. Buy a 17 or 18 year old starlet or two. Wickham, Lukaku, someone. Doesn't really matter who. Get a young talent or two to help boost the development down the road.
     
  13. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    I hope not, he's nothing but potential going for a premium price. He seems like the usual type of Commoli signing but our squad needs so much upgrading spending 10m+ on his seems extravagant.
     
  14. Vasu

    Vasu Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Well, I haven't got the "definitely leaving" vibe from Reina, but if he does leave, we'll have a major hole to plug. Looking at the available talent pool of goalkeepers, I'm not sure if we'll be able to do so easily. Bayern seem to be hell-bent on Neuer (not that I think he'd sign with up anyway because of the lack of CL football), Adler is a crazy Man United fan, either of Stekelenberg or De Gea seem to be headed for United (maybe we could try to go after De Gea if they get Stekelenberg, not a big fan of the Dutchman. This would also be quite difficult, but we should get a tidy sum on Reina). Baumann is a very exciting looking prospect from Germany, but I suspect we'll be looking for a finished product to replace Reina. Sergio Asenjo looked bright at Valladolid before tailing off a bit at Atletico but he's an option too if we're desperate. I don't know what's up with Igor Akinfeev. But I don't want us to become like Arsenal, dropping points and hunting years for a good starting goalkeeper.
     
  15. Chimaera

    Chimaera Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    La Plata, Maryland
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread


    While I do agree that the squad needs significant upgrading, 10 million for a young player (if it's the right one) is better spent than 35 for a 21 year old striker with a lot of upside. I think I rather spend 10 million on two or three Wickham's then blow 15 or 20 on a square peg in a round hole.

    I also think that's the type of signings that can help the club over the longest run, and the ones we're most likely to make.

    The difficulty is certainly picking out the right young ones, but if you can do it, it can improve the club.

    While there certainly are a lot of places to fix, I do think the management and the ownership are thinking more in 2 or 3 year terms than just this coming season. They can't really attract all the top class players they want, and the best way to go about getting some of them is sometimes buying young and development.



    As for Keeper, I've had this debate elsewhere, but I don't think replacing Reina is that difficult. I do think he's an excellent keeper, probably one of the best we've ever had, but I think there are 5 or 6 guys who can do a job that could be acquired. Two or three in the EPL alone on lower clubs who I wouldn't mind having either. As good as Reina? No, but not awful either. If you want a great keeper, go get Lloris.
     
  16. ULL NEVER WALK ALONE

    Sep 29, 2004
    Chile
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    We will get a good fee for Reina, so we should have enough money to buy a quality, proveen Keeper. It's an important position, and Kenny needs to spend big (atleast half of the fee we get from Reina) on a new Keeper.

    And i agree we should buy youngsters, but i agree with idreamofpikas. We will definetly buy young, hungry players. But they shouldn't bee 10m+ youngsters. A couple of 3-4m youngsters, who don't have the media exposure as Wickham, but are still good players, should be our targets.

    Once we have a decent squad, we can spend +10m on promising youngsters.
     
  17. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Hey!

    I've still got my high top leather boots and a woolen turtle neck sweater..??!
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    You want to get arguably the best centre-forward this season and play him wide? For upwards of 30 million euros? No thanks.
     
  19. Chimaera

    Chimaera Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    La Plata, Maryland
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread


    weren't you the one who was saying he played out there for them at the WC?

    Or was that someone else on my case?

    Where they start isn't the end result if you're playing 3 up top.
     
  20. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    I said he played there. Fact. I said nothing about that being his best role/position. He's a better centre-forward than Andy Carroll.
     
  21. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Does it matter? His point was that he wanted a wider attack. Substitute any vaguely relevant name in there if it makes you personally feel better, but the essential point remains the same.

    Due props to you for having cable TV and a subscription to World Soccer magazine but this one-man crusade to be acclaimed Bigsoccer's biggest Player Nerd is beyond dull.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Grinners89

    Grinners89 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 8, 2007
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Seems like someone has had a bad couple of days.

    I don't have cable TV and I don't have a magazine subscription. Am I missing anything important?
     
  23. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    Sorry, yes, that was unduly crabby. I should have a posting moratorium until lunchtimes on Mondays.
     
  24. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    I'm copying this thread from the LFC in the Media thread, and I think this is completely the wrong approach. I think the basic rule is, if you've heard of the Asian player, he's probably overpriced, overrated or both.

    Where German clubs have succeeded is unearthing less heralded players before they became marketable. Because Japanese and Korean clubs tend to be more stable than their South American counterparts, they're not going to let their stars go so easily, especially now that Shnji Okazaki's transfer saga left a sour taste in their collective mouth.

    And if they're already in Europe, you're either going to pay a premium or get damaged goods.

    See what Dortmund did with Kagawa? He wasn't even in Japan's World Cup squad. As for Honda, I'm afraid he'd be duplicating Gerrard, possibly upgrading Maxi, and not providing the width we need.
     
  25. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: John Henrys John Henry: Summer 2011 Transfer Thread

    I'll be both extremely surprised and disappointed if we spent the summer buying 3-4m youngsters.

    We will be buying players who are about to entire their prime (ages 21 -24) and these players will cost at least 10m if not 20m. If they aren't valued in that range, why do we want them? That is what premium players cost.

    I agree they need to be hungry, have a point to prove, but most importantly, they need to have footballing intelligence. Oh, and some pace.
     

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