Johan Cruyff matches and goals scored

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by PuckVanHeel, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This one is indeed great! Thanks.

    "Cruyff would be named the league’s MVP in 1979. But the Aztecs, who had been hemorrhaging money for years, had seen enough of him. Cruyff’s salary — $500,000, some $1.7 million in today’s market — was a near unheard of sum in American soccer during the late ’70s. Only Pele and Beckenbauer’s wages were comparable. The Dutchman’s fate was sealed when the Aztecs were sold to Mexican broadcasting corporation Televisa.

    “They weren’t the slightest bit interested in paying a Dutch player $2 million,” remembers Danzansky. “They wanted Mexican players to help develop their brand in southern California. They were eager to do a transfer to us.”
    [...]
    “British soccer at the time was just absolutely brutal,” recalls Danzansky. “You bash heads, you beat up people, and that’s that. It was just… rough-hewn. Johan was more of a Pele type of player, but without any of Pele’s gentleness. He sort of had this Germanic rigidity and discipline. He expected only greatness.”

    Under Rinus Michels, Cruyff’s playing style was based on the adaptability and interchangeability of players undergirded by their personal responsibility for switching positions and tracking opponents. Bradley’s game was an entirely different animal. All of this is driven home to great effect in a pamphlet I came across years ago entitled “Soccer Tips with the Dips,” in which a few Diplomats prattle on about their roles on the field. Alan Green, a forward, says his role is, “obviously, to score goals.” But Cruyff? His answer reads as if it was generated by a Johan Cruyff bot:
    [​IMG]
    [...]
    Cruyff made his changes. In a way, too, he gave up a bit on Total Football for the rest of the year, becoming a more singular player, though he did have trust in a few teammates — Fellow Dutchmen Thomas Rongen, Jansen and the like.

    “I thought my job was to organize the team when I came here,” Cruyff told Feinstein in June of 1980. “Sure, I could score goals. I’m not worried about that in the slightest. In fact, that’s what I’m going to do now. Forget about organization — I’m going to play spectacularly now. I’m going to play football for the spectator. We’ll start winning games. But no championships. If you want to win trophies you have to play organized.”
    [...]
    The idea that Cruyff was washed up when he came to America is simply preposterous. He was still among the best midfielders in the world, and arguably could have still topped that list. After his spell with the Dips, he’d go on to return to the Netherlands and win three consecutive league titles with Ajax and Feyenoord. "



    In content it's not too different from a long Washington Post article from a few years back, but this one also adds some actual match footage.

    The comments below are also fine:

    "I grew up in the DC area and was a HUGE Dips fan. My youth soccer team went to RFK and we got to meet Cruyff and Pele, who was playing for New York at the time. After the photo opp, Cruyff went and grabbed some cones and had us all do drills for about 20 minutes. He also spent about 15 minutes with our coaches (two of the dads) and gave them a whole handwritten list of drills to do with the team. When Cruyff died, Mr. Buckley - who is now about 80 years old but could still take me in a fight - posted those notes on his Facebook page...he had kept them for all these years."

    "There is a larger, bittersweet thread here too. For decades, too many people in American soccer listened to the Gordon Bradleys of the world, and not enough to the Johan Cruyffs - in just the way that some of his teammates embraced what he tried to show them and and some of them just didn't "get it." I grew up in that "Pele era" of American soccer, the son of a German immigrant, and my heroes of the time were Beckenbauer and Cruyff and Pele... as a young footballing nation we have wasted so much time failing to appreciate what they were trying to teach. Yes, there were massive commercial reasons that those guys came here late in their careers, but no one forced Cruyff to do the clinics with the the kids. There should be Cruyff Courts in every neighborhood in the country... That there aren't is a sad indictment of the leadership of the sport in this country."

    "As far as I’m concerned, Cruyff is the greatest of them all. He wasn’t just a footballer"

    Indeed, you can argue every giant club (Real Madrid, Manchester United) now wants to have their own Cruijff or Guardiola, with newer players also thinking about there are more avenues to explore than being an athlete or rockstar. Newer generations of players (and agents) take note of what previously has been done.
     
  2. Arsenij

    Arsenij Member

    May 8, 2012
    Club:
    Spartak Moskva
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    The score was 1-4. The fourth goal was by Cruijff at 88'.
    I don't know the reason why some dutch sources say the score was 1-3
    I try to find a french source - it would be better 'cause the match was played in France
     
  3. Arsenij

    Arsenij Member

    May 8, 2012
    Club:
    Spartak Moskva
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    The score was opened by Piet Keizer. Dutch sources mainly said it was Keizer, some indeed pointed at Cruyff. The match was played in Belgium so any belgian source is more reliable. Unfortunately I have only one - and of not so good quality but nevertheless - it also says it was Keizer. BTW, Keizer left the field 'cos his sub was planned. Kleton was already warmed up before the incident began. Keizer and Kovacs both said so. Cruyff DID return to the field - with captain armband - after the incident, but played only 4 minutes and left the field being subbed off. The captain's band went to Hulshoff
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    #2054 Vegan10, Oct 18, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
    I had originally reviewed his Barcelona career through the lens of the home Catalan newspapers of La Vanguardia and Mundo Deportivo, but especially from the former. But now thanks to @msioux75 I have access to Marca’s newspaper of Madrid to the Cruijff Barcelona reports which came with grades.

    The grades are rated from 0-3. Using @msioux75 understanding of the scale, he understood that the value was represented like this:

    3 - Outstanding
    2 - Notable
    1 - Sufficient
    0 - Fail

    Although I wonder if the grade of a 1 is really sufficient since it would appear that it was more like poor or struggling, with 0 as a complete nullification.

    As for the Madrid reviews, @PuckVanHeel may appreciate the enemy’s view of things in order to have a better understanding of how Cruijff was perceived through the eyes of his opponents, although sometimes the enemy was within his own territory. Maybe I’ll add some ABC Madrid newspapers in the mix too.

    I’ll see to the grades and brief texts of Don Balón magazine as well starting from the 1975-76 season, since I have a respectable collection of those years (Don Balón started running their editions in October 1975, one year and change after Cruijff’s first season in Spain).

    I’ll focus more on the competitive games but also address friendlies (as I did before) that were probably covered less in Madrid than at home and which probably did not come with grades.

    As with my other projects, it’s a long slow process that takes time, but well worth it.
     
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  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Okay thanks. I have already seen 1974-75 for Marca

    Las Palmas' Argentine defender Enrique "Quique" Wolff had the highest average rating in Marca: 1,93. Barcelona stars Johan Neeskens and Johan Cruyff had averages of 1,56 and 1,48, while Paul Breitner and Günter Netzer of Real Madrid averaged 1,48 and 1,32 on a 0-3 scale where 1=approved.
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/12/memory-lane-la-liga-1974-75.html

    Thus not as high as some as the hardmen, but even in a down season higher as their own top billings and stars. Real Madrid won the double that year (in the cup foreign players weren't allowed to play).

    That said, regardless of the ratings, it's as elaborated before *statistically* obvious to see what an enormous upward effect his presence had on Barcelona. Even though only two trophies were won, they were consistently competing on all fronts.
     
  6. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Sure, no problem. The grades are more secondary in my view, I’m always more interested in the text. It is an added bonus though. The 0-3 scale is hard for me to find the equivalent in the 1-10 scale. But I can accept the idea that the 1 in the 0-3 scale was an “approval” or “sufficient”, but I assume barely passing. What is also intriguing is Don Balón’s grading system for their first year. According to @msioux75 his thread, the scales were rated from 0-3, but the first editions were following the 1-10 scales. They must have changed it at some point in the season.
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It will be interesting to see I guess but *think* we also need to account he was from a political point of view a controversial figure.

    As Gazzetta dello Sport correctly noted:
    "He was the leader that Catalunya had been waiting for for a long time. In October 1973 [at the day of his debut, PvH], the Francoist regime arrested 113 members of the Catalan Assembly in a church. It was a gesture which infuriated the city. Cruyff sent the political prisoners a signed photo reading: “To all Barca supporters who can’t come to Camp Nou. I hope they will soon see the club’s triumphs.”

    And four years later:
     
  8. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Cruijff arrived to Spain as the acclaimed best player in Europe, and Spanish fields hadn’t had a superstar that big since the days of Puskas and Alfredo. So I also wonder how the Madrid papers compared him up against those two, considering that many of their writers may still have been in circulation that witnessed those guys in live action.
     
  9. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    ABC Madrid
    “The Dutch phenomenon has come to Barcelona with his lesson in professionalism very well learned. He has known how to play for the team, show off his prodigious skill, his collective sense of football, and some truly unique attacking line of director qualities. If apart from that we add that he has scored two goals and created the offensive actions for Juanito and Rexach to score goals, it will be easy to come to the conclusion that the night has been tremendous and triumphant.”

    https://www.abc.es/archivo/periodicos/abc-madrid-19730906-63.html

    Marca Madrid placed his debut on the front cover. The match drew high expectations with a capacity crowd of 90,000 fans.

    “Cruijff converted a penalty with the style of Kubula and his game reminded us of Di Stefano”

    73 times he touched the ball.

    As stated in the Catalan newspaper summary, Cruijff said he was happy with the performance, but confirmed due to the heat he could still play better.

    Asked if he felt that the Belgian side was soft and allowed him to shine, he responded: “The Belgian side was correct, but I can play stronger. I’m used to all games and I can adapt.”

    Today we saw you with little will to defend, is your game just attacking ? “I play in attack and in other positions. If the team needs me up front I’m there, if not; and if the team needs me to break the opponent I’ll be there for sure.”

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    4B37AB20-4DC8-44E6-95CE-4EBCD88A10CB.jpeg
     
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  10. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    ABC Madrid
    “Johan Cruyff's second game with Barcelona was unsuccessful compared to the first game, or at the box office. There was an acceptable entry, about 40,000 spectators, and the Dutch ace had a performance that also deserves the qualification of acceptable, but all this far from the day of its presentation”

    https://www.abc.es/archivo/periodicos/abc-sevilla-19730927-42.html

    Marca headlined: “Whistles were heard but Cruijff scored a goal and set up another”

    Cruijff operated in his usual left flank as a midfield/forward winger, which begs the question: why would France Football have him catalogued as a center-forward ? The only logic behind this is that they wanted to not mix him with other heavyweight contenders in the midfield or left flanks, facilitating his chances of being included in the all-time Dream Team.

    Cruijff is viewed by Marca as a player that is always the guy that receives attention, the aura that surrounds him, producing his teammates to look for him. The opponents were Germans and didn’t take this game as a friendly, playing a defensive game and shadowing Cruijff closely.

    244AACAF-B4D3-41B1-94A8-5C9D0EE6C0E1.jpeg
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Because he wore #9 most of the time if he used a normal outfield number and was often put down that way in official line-ups.

    That in reality his average field position was often deeper than the one of Pele, Maradona or 'attacking midfielder' Zico - relative to team mates as well - doesn't register.

    It is also not a given at all he will beat Ronaldo Fenomeno in the public vote... If FF really wanted to maximize his chances, they should have placed him on the right, or left (with Cristiano moving to the right) and Messi as center forward. Simple as that. If anything they have maximized the chances for Pele and Maradona...

    So once again, I disagree with the suggestions and take.
     
  12. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    I don’t think they have maximized Pelé or Maradona’s chances because they are pretty much a first ballet choice no matter where they are placed in the offensive half. The guys that really have been shortchanged and have to be sacrificed is Di Stefano and Puskas, that I’m sure about. They should have been placed in the forward positions.

    My stance remains that Cruijff was intentionally put in that position in order to avoid the attacking midfield composed of Pelé, Maradona, Di Stefano, Puskas, Platini and Zidane, rendering his chances far less than what he has to contend against now.
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    We saw that in the 1999 century vote among experts indeed...
    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/iffhs-century.html

    Or for example the Onze d'Or vote among French readers in 1995:
    https://footballyesterdayandtoday.blogspot.com/2015/12/onze-dor-1995.html

    Also they can use some maximizing... Of course, ask only south european managers for a poll and there is a different outcome.

    Fine, that remains your stance. If they really want to have him in then Messi is placed among the center forwards and Cristiano opposite to him on the other wing.

    It will be hard enough to beat Ronaldo (and the demographics behind him). The fact there are two other compatriots in the center forward category - both linked to other clubs and leagues - doesn't maximize his chances either, and can well split some votes; just as the presence of other former Barcelona 'strikers'.

    If you want to maximize the odds you should take out one or two compatriots.
     
  14. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Let’s not beat around the bush here, young man. With few spots available, Pelé, Maradona, Di Stéfano and the two Frenchmen in a French publication, I fail to see Cruijff getting in the first lineup. They simply chose the path of least resistance in order to maximize his chances. If someone has to be sacrificed for sure it will be an Argentinian and certainly Puskas will be the first guaranteed casualty amongst the top heavyweight choices in that rank.
     
  15. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Another way of looking at it is that FF's priority is to ensure the inclusion of Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo and Frenchman Zidane. The unusual formation opens the door for Zidane. Cruyff is not competing against any of these three and is instead facing off against Ronaldo Nazario. The publishers won't care which of these two prevails.

    They have probably also calculated that Di Stefano and Puskas are too old to get enough votes. The pair occupied the last two places in the BBC's Top 10 poll this week.
     
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  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    He is most of the times placed ahead of Di Stefano anyway (yes, already in the 1980s, in Europe). Next step: Maradona and Di Stefano can split the votes between them, with as result others climb ahead.

    You underestimate how demographics work, to the degree trophy cabinet and the like is rendered irrelevant.
    Ever since the early 1960s in fact, when a rival for Pele had to be found and pimped up by the Spanish speaking world.
     
  17. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Then that would certainly eliminate the two Argentinians because Pelé is guaranteed a spot.

    And that presumed splitting only shortchanges the Argentinians, when they easily could have swapped Di Stefano for Cruijff, potentially guaranteeing an Argentinian in both spots. Now at least one has to be sacrificed if not both. The way they formatted their groups it maximizes the chances of at least one Dutchman in the center-forward position, with only one serious challenger in Ronaldo Nazario.
     
  18. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    If they pick two defensive midfielders and two attacking ones, then Pele and Maradona would keep Zidane out. I was thinking they might select all three if they all receive plenty of votes and the DM vote is split. Otherwise why sacrifice a proper defender for a second defensive midfielder in an unorthodox 3-4-3?

    The problem is only one central forward position being available. If Pele is a candidate there is no contest. Placing Di Stefano and Puskas there would have made it more interesting as they are unlikely to make it as AMs.
     
  19. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
  20. BayernMessi1970

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Oct 27, 2020
    Puck, could you please send me Cruyff's assists (and goals) by each season? (from 1965-66 till 1983-84)

    Club only please
     
  21. BayernMessi1970

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Oct 27, 2020
    Me too, link doesnt work for me
     
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  22. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    [​IMG]

    Günter Netzer and Johan Cruyff on 30 December 1972 in Düsseldorf (when a combination of Fortuna Düsseldorf and Bor. Mönchengladbach faced Ajax Amsterdam in a 1-1 draw in front of 50,000).
     
  23. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
  24. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Are these numbers correct?

    Johan Cruyff played 369 games for Ajax, 32015 minutes (86.76 mpg), scored 271 goals and 139 assists.
    Ajax in those 369 games, GF: 1083 (2.935 pg)- GA: 303 (0.821 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.762
    Assists: 0.391
    G+A: 1.153

    Goal contribution: 25.96%
    G+A contribution: 39.27%


    For Barcelona he played 180 games, 15965 minutes (88.69 mpg), scored 60 goals and 75 assists.
    Barcelona in those 180 games, GF: 370 (2.056 pg)- GA: 179 (0.994 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.338
    Assists: 0.423
    G+A: 0.761

    Goal contribution: 16.45%
    G+A contribution: 37.02%


    In total I counted 712 games, 405 goals and someting like 280 assists, but I read you counted 348 assists, so what am I missing?
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This is actually not my work but compiled by @Arsenij

    1310310462299320320 is not a valid tweet id


    Hopefully this link works:

    https://gofile.io/d/Snfi9G

    Stats for FC Barcelona here

    In my view this has to be assessed though in relation to (1) the playing position/role (e.g. the 1978 CdR final), (2) the general shooting accuracy and/or chance conversion (and from what we know by e.g. OPTA that was genuinely very high, although you won't hear me saying it was the 'best ever' or so) and (3) the before/after & with/without performances of the teams he played in (including the national team), within the context of achieving high and competitive finishes (consistent semi finals, 2nd place). Another thing is of course the quality and depth of the league, but suffice to say here by and large he has a (very) strong record against the really good teams. Also pre-1970 and post-1978.
     
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