JMEISSEN0!!! I LOVE your avatar. In fact, borrowed it myself. If people would do any degree of research they would see there is no question about it. If is explicitly not disrespectful.
You say you'll change the constitution Well you know We all want to change your head You tell me it's the institution Well you know You better free your mind instead But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
God, I love it when threads just get thrown over here and we have to try & figure out what prompted them to get going in the first place. Beckham to MLS? Awesome!
Re: Seriously, why not Beckham now? We've only been in Iraq for less than 2 years, and we already have over 1,200 dead US soldiers. If you could be bothered to go read up on your Vietnam history, you'd notice that we are way ahead of the pace of deaths in Vietnam. Iraq does look like Vietnam 2.0 because we are stuck, we can't pull out, and we need to send in more troops. We are just getting started. More people will die, and it could very well get just as ugly or uglier than Vietnam. And it's not just the fact that we are losing US soldiers, we are also killing many civilians and creating massive social instability in the region, just like we did in Southeast Asia. We are also fighting a guerilla war rather than a conventional war, just like in Vietnam. The Middle East is also a lot like Southeast Asia was back then as both regions were once emperial holdings of western nations which evolved into corrupt puppet regimes and reactionary anti-western dictatorships. We are also going to be faced with the same dilemma of the Vietnam War ... do we pull out and cut our losses and leave the region in WORSE shape than when we went in in the first place, or do we increase troop levels and continue to sustain increasing losses and flatten more cities with no end in sight? I don't want to get to the point of having to use nuclear weapons as that opens up a scary can of worms and creates dangerous precendents for the future of geopolitics, but I see the Bush Administration as being crazy enough to justify it and do it. Nixon almost did. - Paul
Re: Seriously, why not Beckham now? excellent post...and after reading that it makes me wonder how could ANY of you vote for bush, what were people thinking...maybe its just cuz i'm from the west coast and all 3 of our states voted for kerry cuz we're smart and don't like people to die so some MALE CHEERLEADER can make money off oil...ridiculous
Re: Seriously, why not Beckham now? well, now you have. btw - the C-5 is an awesome airframe, dont listen to the propaganda spewed out by congress, we outshine the C-17 in almost all facets of heavy airlift
I'm more shocked people are suprised when people are outraged about what they deem to be "misuse" of the flag. I mean come on, there is probably a majority of Americans out there who would ban flag burning if they were in charge, ignoring an amendment in the process. The problem is people in this country take symbolism way too far, and as many have pointed out before the truest test of freedom of expression is to allow that which is most disturbing to you occur (within the law of course). Many people just can't deal with it.
"i consider them [yellow ribbons and americans flags]to be symbols, and i leave symbols to the symbol-minded" george carlin ~'92 or so
I didn't say I was surprised to see people outraged at "misuse" of the flag. I just commented that it was hard for me to understand why they get so upset. Folks need to understand that burning a flag, putting a flag upside down, etc, are forms of political expression that are protected under the 1st ammendment. We might not always like what people have to say about our country or government, but as Americans we should do our best to tolerate it and not let it become more than a minor irritant to us.
"Hey buddy, my father fought for that flag!" "Oh yeah? I bought mine at K-Mart. It was 3 bucks". ---Bill Hicks
Bottom line the way I see it is that many people view the display of the flag upside down in exactly the same way they view a lawyer who uses a technicality in the law to allow his guilty client to go free. In this case, the technicality is that the inverted display was a sign that the fort, or whatever military base, was under duress. It was to be an indication that the people withing needed help. This was put into the code long before we have the means of communication we now have. Hence, to invert the flag in today's world is not the same thing as the original intention of the code. Therefore, you have people who now use it as a political statement rather than the original intention. So be it. What I see among the posts here is an "in your face" attitude on the part of those who choose to display the inverted flag. The result is a further polarization of opinion as to the usefulness of the message being conveyed.
people don't like it when something they don't like is allowed thankfully, in this country... we are governed by interpretations and not the letter of the law... spirit wins out this allows for laws to be adapted as they should... providing us freedoms others can only dream of... instead of confining us in a fascist society
Are you a lawyer? You sound like one here. It is the "adaptations" of laws that have undermined the authority, and the right, of Congress to make laws. As both the Executive branch of government and the Justice department (state and Federal) have interpreted and adapted laws to their own purpose, they have destroyed the balance of powers that was pivotal to the success of this nation. What we now have is far from balance. I agree we have freedom in this country, but strict interpretation of laws as they appear on the books is a HUGE jump from fascism. You are making a totally unsupported leap there.
you do realize the system of checks and balances in this country, correct???? legislative, executive and judicial... correct??? legislative creates the laws, votes on it... if it's passed... it goes to the executive branch to be signed or vetoed there it become law, until said time when a case brings said law into the judicial branch... where it can move up the ladder, being rejected or accepted each time until it reaches the supreme court (or whatever higher court governing said case)... who determine, if necessary, the constitutionality or unconstitutionality of said law meaning they interpret it tell me if i'm going to fast for you
Change the phrase "display the inverted flag" to "parrott the party line they learn from Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly." Or change it to "pretend that 51% of the vote is an overwhelming majority." Or maybe change "on the part of those who choose to display the inverted flag" to "displayed in every one of Ann Coulter's books." It ain't just one side that's polarizing debate, sparky. And expressing offense that someone does it on bigsoccer when Rush Limbaugh and his clones have been doing it for decades now is really, really bad faith.
Lost ya here. How are the two even close. Displaying the flag upside down on an internet message board is like a lawyer using a sneaky lawyer trick to let a guilty guy go free? No offense, but isn't that going just a tad overboard? How many pages have been dedicated to this topic now? Seems that there are bigger fish to fry and better places to put one's energy than what somebody else uses as an avatar on an internet message board. And the country will keep chugging along. JmeissenO practices his freedom of speech in putting the flag upside down, you display yours in being against that. That whole freedom of speech thing works pretty good sometimes. Best part of your post and probably the best place for the discussion to end.....though I doubt it will for either side.
Re: Seriously, why not Beckham now? Ah yes, Forward Defence - the justification for the occupation of Eastern Europe circa 1950. Some ideas just get better with time.
Yes you are allowed to do it. It is your right. It just makes you look like a jerk and stupid. I certainly beleive in your right to make yourself look like an idiot. Why do you have to whine when other people think you make yourself look like an idiot by showing your contempt? Why do you complain when your "side" pisses off a majority of the country? Why do you expect other people to view your ideas the way you do?
Ask those exact questions of Ann Coulter. Because I'm willing to bet that more than 2% of the 51% who went for Bush don't believe she speaks for them.
This whole "majority" crap is a bunch of hooey! If you weren't so intent on being disengenuous, then maybe you'd choose to use "half the country" or some other more realistic term. On top of that, I am sure that many people in your so-called "majority" would agree with jmeissen that our country is fvcked. They just chose what they thought was the lesser of two evils, especially in the context of an ongoing war. Moralizers love to think they have the majority of people behind them, or God behind them, or some rock-solid principle behind them ... anything to justify their self-righteousness. It speaks volumes that you are more concerned with the proper ettiquette of displaying a symbol than with the well-being of people who are dying in Iraq every day! It is so easy for you to speak for "those who have died for the flag", yet you cannot find the heart to speak for those who are dying right now as you read this post. Innocent mothers and children with their limbs blown off and their once beautiful neighborhoods turned into piles of rubble. If you were truly comfortable with your pride in the United States, than a simple display of a flag turned upside down wouldn't shake you so much. What bothers you about it so much? That so many people don't think like you? Do you need a herd of sheep to make mommy's little boy feel okay with himself? Does the reality of our fvcked-up government ruin the idealistic world you've created in your head? Face reality. Our government is taking us into a dangerous time, with the potential to end human civilization, because that is what contemporary war is like nowadays. And it isn't doing it for "Freedom and Democracy", it is doing it for the egoes and pockets of a select few, those in control of our energy resources and the military-industrial complex. Wake up, and smell the coffee. Others already have, and that is why they are displaying the flag, which represents the country they so dearly love, a country populated with so many awesome people that make this country great, upside down. Because they care. And they are worried as hell. - Paul
Something just occured to me. Those that like to show the flag upside down to upset people into thinking are upset when other people think about it. You don't want your free speech controled. Fine. Don't expect to control how others respond.