The New York Jets football team recently announced plans to build a brand new stadium over the west side railyard with a tentative opening date in 2008. The plans call for a $1 billion stadium with another $2 billion needed for infrastructure upgrades and transportation improvements. While the Jets say they would foot most of the bill for the stadium through loans from banks and the NFL, the city would be forced to pick up the rest of the tab, and this can mean only one thing folks, higher taxes. It wasn’t long ago that Mayor Bloomberg rejected plans for a new stadium for the Mets and Yankees citing extreme budget problems for the city. So why the sudden turn around? Because this stadium would also serve as the backdrop to New York City’’s 2012 summer Olympic bid, which ironically is being spear headed by the Deputy Mayor for Economic Development and Rebuilding for the City of New York, Dr. Daniel Doctoroff. Bringing the Olympics to New York City has been Doctoroff’s pet project for the past 10 years, so it is no coincidence as to why the Bloomberg Administration has been so supportive of the new Jets stadium. However let’s not jump ahead of ourselves here. It is no sure bet that the IOC will award New York the 2012 games, as cities such as Paris and London have well stocked bids as well. So what we are essentially left with is a $2 billion stadium built for a football team that only plays a total of 10 home games including their pre-season. Are the costs proportional to the benefits? Well that would be determined if the stadium was used more than 10 times a year. One such answer could come in the form of professional soccer. If New York City were to be awarded an expansion Major League Soccer team, the stadium could be guaranteed a minimum of 20 home games, not to mention any exhibition or international games which the stadium could host. The Jets have said in the past that they would not want to share a new stadium with any other team or sport outside of the Olympics. But if the Jets really want their stadium built, it would be wise for them to embrace soccer as part of their plans.
from my school paper? This project will cost a MINIMUM of $3 Billion. Then there are always cost over runs, etc... Not to mention that the 7 train extension is VITAL for this project to be completed, and the MTA hasn;t got the capital for this project, along with the 2nd avenue line, and the new tunnels for the LIRR to Grand Central. And don;t forget the the Mets and yankees will be screaming bloody murder if this thing gets further along. They were promised stadiums / rennovations that the city didn;t have the $$ for, but now they have $2 billion for this thing? And of course Dan Doctoroff has an intense interest in this project. This stadium would help inch NYC closer to the 2012 Olympics, a movement that he founded and is the architect of.
If the Jets are willing to shell out for half of the $1.5 billion on the stadium, the Mets and Yanks can't say anything. The Jets are putting their money where their mouth is. Were the Mets and Yankees? Or were they trying to stick a gun in the ribs of the city and state when they were talking about new stadiums. Steinbrenner, for one, loves jerking the city around. Even when his buddy Rudy was in City Hall. There's also nothing which says the subway links need to be completed at exactly the same time as the stadium. Those would need to be finished by 2012, if the city gets the Olympics. In the meantime, if the stadium is ready for 2009 when the Jets no longer have a lease at Giants, we'd all survive walking a couple of blocks from Penn Station to go to a game there. And get off Doctoroff's back. He's the prime pusher of the NYC2012 movement, but somebody has to be the point man and visionary. And he's a city offical, for God's sake. He's Bloomberg's deputy mayor for economic development. Whatever one may think of Bloomberg's politics, he isn't a self-made billionaire because he's stupid when it comes to money. If this whole Olympics/Jets/Javits Center thing were financial insanity or totally untenable, he'd have absolutely nothing to do with it. Anybody that has been observing Bloomberg knows he's hardly the type of guy to get suckered into somebody's pie-in-the-sky fantasy.
No they park at the LIRR or Metro North Stations like they do every freaking day. BOO-HOO they took away your tailgating, you'll cope. Plus if you ask any REAL Jets fan what would you rather have? Tailgating or a home of your own. I bet their answer will be the latter.
I disagree. To many of them the pregame is as important as the game. Most of them spend more time at the pregame than the game. On top of that, the weekend train schedules aren't set up to handle this kind of volume. To give you an idea, from points north and east, it takes more time to get to MSG than it does to GS, by a significant amount of time. The whole idea of a stadium in NYC is the world's biggest cluster f##k.
I never said it wasnt an important part but one that they could part with knowing what the end result would be. This kind of volume? Its not 80K people coming in on ONE rail at ONE time. You're talking couple of thousand over a whole morning. And you can just as easily take your car up to other boroughs and skip the Rails and take the subway. NJ people can take Buses, Path, and Rail. And seriously you think the Jets give a rats ass about people who live out of town? except for the Naussau peeps? They got 8 MILLION people directly connected to subway lines now, they dont need people from CT or NJ. Not to mention every major business in Manhattan will buy up every suite. And Im sure MTA will add extra service for 4 hours everyday like they do for big events already. It's not costing them anything people are still paying their $2. In fact is to their benefit so that people wont find other means of transportation. Again youre assuming people are taking their cars, which if they had a half a brain, WONT.
2 Stations? First with the renovation of the rail lines underneath the stadium it will MORE than accomodate them(Most NYC Hubs do more than that in a normal day). Second you can pretty much walk from there from about 4 different stations RIGHT NOW. 2 of which probably handle more than 80K riders on their own during rush and evening hours. I couldnt tell you what the ratio of NYC/Out of Town fans there is but like I said IT DOESN'T matter to the Jets. They DONT care about that because for each fan decides its too much of a pain for him to get to(which is really ridiculous) theres about 2 million other people who will take his ticket. And then theres the companys who dont care about the team as long as they have something nice to give to a client. Dont you think even MORE of them are going to be buying chunks of tickets to the premier NFL stadium in the biggest/best city in the world. Its all about $$. Jets dont give a rats ass and neither should you, they'll get their money either ways.
I totally agree with this. The fact of the matter is there will be tons of bars and restaurants within walking distance of the stadium in Manhattan. What's wrong with some of these people obsessed with tailgating simply joining up at a bar and getting trashed there instead of at some lousy parking lot before games? I don't understand this whole "tailgate culture" thing. I'd love for there to be a bar at Giants Stadium for me to stop in before a match and relax. With a West Side Jets Stadium, there'd be no problem finding a favorite "watering hole" to hang in before or after soccer matches. It'd be great.
Re: Re: Jets get new stadium They may not all get there at the same time, but they're all going to want to leave at the same time. If there's little to no parking for 80,000 people, gettting in to the stadium via mass transit might be quite easy, but getting out will be a little more interesting. Feeding off my prior point, there's an absolute limit to the number of trains you can have at each terminal at any given time -- 1. So there's really not all that much you can do about the logjam leaving the stadium. No, the problem arises when they don't, not when they do (all though all the same problems arise, to some degree, with a parking lot, which is why it's better to have both).
I'd rather be involved in a 80,000-people log-jam leaving a stadium in midtown Manhattan than the log-jams there are leaving the Meadowlands. And people will be taking different trains at different stations and different platforms.
Re: Re: Re: Jets get new stadium The Garden doesn't seem to have a problem, although it has alot less people but alot of the people that go to the games dont take their cars to begin with. Right but we are not talking about a subway stop here, they are making a HUB which is going to accomodate all those people. And not everyone is going to be taking the same trains. Some may take one of the many rail lines out, some may take the one of the 2 subway lines out, some may decide to take the bus back at PA. Like I said before places like Grand Central, Penn Station, and PA already take more than 80K(each) in and out every morning. This is essentially what they are going to be constructing there, not a subway stop or a bus stop, but a mass transit HUB. Im sure they will have both. But people may find it easier to just take public trans.
I believe the average age for a Jets game is much older than you are. Many of these people are no longer "bar" people. They prefer to get trashed with their own liquor. I really think you are underestimating the travel problems, not cars, but people, that will occur when you have 4 times as many people arriving and leaving at the same time as you do for a hockey or basketball game. I have been on metronorth when a UConn game has been at MSG and I have been on the Theater train. Neither of these events makes for a good travelling experience. If you want to say there will be more city people, then where is the nearest subway line? BTW there is a bar within walking distance of GS in the Sheraton. Also, a couple more, within a mile or two.
The A/C/E line stops at 34th and 8th Ave. The 1/2/3/9 line, NJ Transit and LIRR trains stop at 34th and 7th Ave (Penn station.) The N/Q/R/W, PATH, and B/D lines are on 34th and 6th Ave. Port Authority (NJ Transit and Greyhound buses) is at 42nd and 8th/9th. Times Square (42nd and 7th) has the 7 line and the crosstown shuttle, which connects with Grand Central (4/5/6 line, Metro North and various amtrak trains.) So basically every public transportation option in and around NYC is within easy walking distance of the proposed site.
Well, I don't say that to suggest that it's certain to fail, just tht there's a whole lot of things logistically you'd need to think of ahead of time. And if there was a dearth of parking severe enough, then it would be difficult for mass transit to make up the difference, even with a hub with multuiple terminals. One would hope that's not the case. One would also hope they build this thing to acceptable FIFA dimension. I'm not fool enough to suggest that MLS is anywhere near being able to carry its financial weight on the most expensive real estate in the Western Hemisphere, but if you're ignoring the World Cup at this stage, you're a fool. Three to five WC matches nets a venue more revenue than a Super Bowl, and is a boon to a whole city with all the international tourism. And even the occasional ManU star matchup could turn you a little extra revenue in the offseason. Why spend 1.5 billion plus infrsstructure improvements on a stadium and not spend less than 1% of that figure to give your venue some additional versitility?
Re: Re: Jets get new stadium From what I'm reading this Manhattan stadium is far from being a done deal. It'd be the centerpiece of the NYC 2012 Olympic Bid (good luck with that) and the Jets would chip in about $800 million of their own money, which is the largest investment in a stadium in any U.S. professional sport. If they want to exclude soccer and the revenue stream it could provide, feel free - they would've bought the right to tell people to take their soccer and keep it away from their stadium. The city/state would be asked to chip in about half that amount. They're touting it as a piece of a redevelopment plan that includes expansion of the Javitts Center and rezoning in that area and an extension of the 7 train from Times Square. It all sounds good on paper, except nobody is talking about how they're going to pay for the cost of extending that train out to the stadium and there's obviously no parking revenue to be heard of. They're saying they'll have a retractable roof stadium which will allow them to host 150 days a year of conventions, but if they expand Javitts Center significantly, will there be that much of a need for that much more convention space? I'm not entirely a New Yorker (I was an Upstater a few years ago), so I'm not really sure how much to expect that this'll get done. If they were going to build this once they had the 2012 Olympics as a done deal (the decision is in '05, but I doubt NYC gets it), then spending that kind of money can get done and I think there's the political momentum to make it happen, but without that, I'm not sure there's going to be enough of everything that needs to fall in place to make it happen. And on the tailgating, with a stadium like this, it's all about suites. The club level at Soldier Field is about $190 to step inside for a Bears game and about $40 for those same seats for a Fire game. If you can charge $190-400 a head, you're not interested in the clientele that is interested in tailgating. They're going after the big shot CEOs and corporate entertaining, PSLs and big-time snob factor. This isn't about the people that pay $50 a ticket and $30 for parking and then want to eat food that they brought from home and cooked up on a hibachi in the parking lot. Those people don't pay the bills. They're talking the people that pay three figures for their tickets and drop $100 on food and drink during the game each week without missing the money.
Re: Re: Re: Jets get new stadium I agree with you , it's not about the average fan. But what seperates Football for any other major sport in America is it's Holiday-like feel. Sunday is a party, looked forward to all week, by many fans in attendance. To get rid of that Holiday like feel, would, IMO, ruin football's long term success. Sad.
Why would I care if the Jets play in their own stadium, how does them having their own stadium benefit me? And don't say schelduling, prices or home field advantage, b/c you know prices will not be lowered. I gain nothing from the Jets having their own stadium. For example if the Jets Stadium opened up right next to Giants stadium, and was exactly the same, does the fact that the Jets have a home of their own benefit me? No, so why should this new one (in Manhattan) benefit me? It only benefits Woody Johnson. I would much rather tailgate and enjoy myself, than have a home stadium "Of my own." That doesn't benefit me in anyway, that in reality doesn't want me their anymore b/c I can't afford a suite. Maybe it would be in our best intrests to trade the Right to tailgate for the right to change the name of giants stadium to jets stadium, you right metrocorazon, now Jets fans have a home stadium, woohoo,thats more important. Whats in a name?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Jets get new stadium I think that's part of what's been lost in the NBA - you have overpriced courtside seats and the people who live and die for the team are stuck only able to afford the upper deck.
Since you have the MetroStars listed as a favorite club, perhaps you would care to tell us what you think of the proposed new stadium in Harrison? Does your feelings about the Jets home stadium pertain to the MetroStars having their own home as well? Or does your "sporting life" just revolve around getting piss-ass drunk in a ****ing parking lot no matter where the hell it is? Like I've said before, you can get blitzed in a bar before the matches if that's your desire. Or is a tavern a little too civilized for your tastes.