Jesse Marsch out at Leeds, rumored for Southampton job

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by truefan420, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Almost anybody that we might want who wants our managing job would want it specifically because of the whole managing the home team at the WC deal, for certain. But that isn't necessarily what best suits us, the possible flexibility for a guy like Marsch who might still have European options might soften that somewhat.
     
  2. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the thing: Marsch is a true believer in the Red Bull System. That's going to be very difficult to implement at the National Team level for a variety of reasons. One is that he won't get a ton of time to work with the team in order to implement his system.

    Some have already pointed out that his system is rigid. His former players have said as much. If you have SiriusXM, take a listen to today's episode of Counter Attack. Meola and Wynalda give a good breakdown and also provide comments from Sacha K and Tim parker. AThey both Love Jesse, but spoke of his strict adherence to the system.

    The Red Bull Way works great in club soccer, where coaches work with players everyday. Also, clubs have scouting systems, analytics teams, etc that can go out and find the players that fit this system perfectly. If your national team player pool doesn't have forwards who are committed to playing defense and pressing for 90 minutes, it's not going to work. Ditto with CM's who have engines that never run out of gas (the US does have those). If your pool lacks the Fullbacks to play this way..... Let's face facts too, not every player can be successful playing the Red Bull Way. Not to mention the fitness levels it takes to play that way for 90 minutes (or more).

    As has been pointed out often, Jesse has no plan b. It's chaos ball, 200MPH all game long. His system is slightly more sound defensively than Bielsa is. Only slightly.

    IMO, Marsch would be worse than GGG at the NT. Many of the complaints about GGG will only get worse if US Soccer hires Jesse as coach.
     
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  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    It's quite a bit more sound defensively than Bielsa's.
     
  4. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that's fair. Honestly if Leeds had a striker he'd likely still be employed. They outplayed Forest yesterday, but couldn't capitalize on their chances. Which has been the case all season. That, and teams punishing Leeds when they make a mistake.
     
  5. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    A striker and a GK. Or maybe just a GK.

    When Jesse was winning two Supporters Shields at NYRB, he had one of the league's best strikers (probably the best at the time), and one of the league's best GKs.

    We have a good shot-stopping GK (not quite an elite one, I'd say), and... some mediocre strikers, unless maybe Balogun decides that the US looks like fun.
     
  6. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well ideally he’d be doing it with Folarin Balogun.
     
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  7. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's it. When Leeds failed to buy a ready-made striker in the January window, they sealed Jesse's fate. They may have been thinking to get rid of him during the WC break.
     
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  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The actually outplayed a lot of teams this season, and just couldn't put the ball in the back of the net.

    The recent game against Brentford is a perfect example of that for me. So frustrating.

    One can blame the players. Sure. Plenty of blame to go around. But at some point it falls on the manager to help the players figure it out. Isn't that his job? Rodrigo isn't some schlub. He has 27 caps for Spain.

    I find it hysterical that a team would fire Jesse Marsch leaving Chris Armas as interim manager. Hello? These are strange times we're living in.

    It would be so "Leedsy" for them to now beat ManU this week.
     
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  9. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    I think they are letting Armas stick around for a bit due to his MANU inside knowledge. What could get interesting is if Leeds manage to win either or both of these fixtures.
     
  10. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Armas was the only guy on staff who really made sense and he’s not like to be around for that long anyways.

    In the end Marsch was unlucky but he wasn’t treated unfairly by Leeds. It’s a results driven business and even if the bounces went against him in the end they were 17th in the table.

    I do think there was some unfairness in terms of how the press treated him, but that’s par for the course and to be expected.

    I don’t think the problem was scoring goals as I believe they were 11th in the league in scoring and 16th in terms of goals given up. And the latter metric is where they were underperforming their underlying statistics.
     
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  11. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think that system is good at all for national teams because of short turnarounds if you're in the WC and especially if rosters go back to 23.
     
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  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    do you guys know how many teams "only need a st and a gk"?
     
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  13. CyphaPSU

    CyphaPSU Member+

    Mar 16, 2003
    Not Far
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Jesse needs to go somewhere where he can be given the space and time needed to adapt and, hopefully, evolve and expand his tactics. That place, though, is not the USMNT at this time.
     
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  14. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1789 jaykoz3, Feb 7, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
    Japan played a similar style at the WC for comparison.

    Fans and haters alike were lamenting Gregg's system and how long it took for him to implement it. The "Red Bull System" is actually harder to implement, and is more rigid in its principles and player roles. Coaches simply don't have the time to implement this at the national team level. By time, I mean training sessions with the team.
     
  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't think anybody can argue Jesse was treated unfairly.
    The results just weren't coming. When we look at PPG since his arrival, it just hasn't been good enough. There's a lot of blame to go around, but we know which person is most easily changed.
     
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  16. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    as was said to me recently - "this was cringeworthy" ....
     
  17. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Leeds should have traded Marsch to Chelsea for Lukaku.

    haha.
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Even if they had, they didn't give him enough time to work with him.

    Its indeed weird to go thru a whole transfer window getting the types of players that a manager wants, only to fire him one game after the window closes. [On social media there's a lot of ire directed at the Leeds board.]

    But that's the way it goes.

    If Leicester can fire Claudio Ranieri, then anybody can be fired.
     
  19. Papin

    Papin BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 19, 1998
    le côté obscur
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Armas isn't the main guy in charge, though, so I don't think there is any risk of him getting the head gig. He is basically a less successful clone of Marsch, so there's no reason for him to be considered for the job at this point.
    He is also one of three guys sharing coaching duties on an interim basis until the board names a new manager, perhaps as early as Friday. It's also noteworthy that Skubala, not Armas, did the pre-match press conference.
     
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  20. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Armas is coaching the team...Skubala is likely the caretaker manager. Armas was coaching the team under Marsch as well.
     
  21. iad_22201

    iad_22201 Member+

    Jan 2, 2009
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, more sound than 2021-22 Bielsa, but not as sound as 2020-21 Bielsa (Leeds are currently on pace to concede 11 more goals this season than in 20-21).

    Only 4 players in the PL (Haaland, Kane, Toney and Mitro) have scored more goals this season than Rodrigo. He was on pace to score 20+ goals. Yes, he just got injured, but Marsch had one of the most prolific strikers in the PL in his squad for the 19 matches before Sunday and he still wasn't getting satisfactory results.
     
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  22. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You must tell the whole story, however First, Rodrigo was not a prolific scorer under Bielsa. He transformed under Marsch. Second, Bamford got injured in Marsch's first season and has not been a functional striker since, necessitating the need to buy an experienced striker last summer or at least in the January window. Third, players like Luke Ayling are not Premiership quality, but then Marsch didn't have many options in defense. Poor defending was certainly a factor in his demise.

    I have absolutely no problem with Leeds sacking Marsch. He was simply not good enough. The main problem is the crap Red Bull system that he brought over from RB Leipzig. It failed there and it failed at Leeds. Nevertheless, he was better than Bielsa in his last year, he saved the club from relegation, and I believe if the club had purchased a proper striker in the summer or winter, then we're not having this discussion.
     
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  23. Papin

    Papin BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 19, 1998
    le côté obscur
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure he's coaching. So is Skubala. So is Gallardo. Those three are sharing duties on an interim basis. There is zero chance of Armas getting the manager's position. Leeds have likely been in touch with candidates since at least January, when the 49ers were already pushing for Marsch to be fired.
     
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  24. Papin

    Papin BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 19, 1998
    le côté obscur
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I heard one pundit come up with the idea that Rodrigo's revival is due to the RB gegenpress system, which actually benefits him because he has less time to overthink and has to act more on instinct.
    The problem with Ayling is that his supposed replacement, Kristensen, has been pretty awful. That's one of Marsch's signings who just hasn't panned out.
     
  25. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Marsch: We don’t have a good forward. We need to get one.
    Board: Any name?
    Marsch: There is a good one who I managed before and he is also a big Leeds fan.
    Board (excitingly): Give us the name!
    Marsch: Haaland.
    Board(disbelief): Get out!
     
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