Most of us have resigned from jobs that supported our families on nothing more than the word of a prospective employer. We did that because most people are trustworthy.
I certainly have never done that and I’ve definitely had jobs I thought were sure things that fell apart at the last minute. Basically no one ever resigns a job or gives notice without an official formal offer in hand.
Unless you have a contract you’re acting based on your trust in the individual that sent you the letter. I’m assuming based on your previous responses that you wouldn’t shit talk them if you accepted the non-binding offer and the job wasn’t what you discussed during the interview process? Out of curiosity, what reason did the employer give you for it falling apart and why did you think it was a sure thing?
Yup. Everyone that’s resigned a job without getting a contract from a new employer. The offer letter feels good, but only if you trust the person that signed it. Luckily enough most folks are trustworthy. If you live long enough you’ll have friends shit talk an employer that they claim did them wrong despite being at-will. You get to choose whether you believe them…because you can’t know.
If we are talking full time, permanent work here (not someone whose business is, ahem, contracting, where they work a project for a while then move on) I’ll bet that 99% of Americans don’t have a contract. I never have. I manage over 20, indirectly. No contract. Congrats on being a corporate executive who signs a contract for your job. Normal people get jobs via offer letters. Of which there wasn’t one here.
Shrug. Who the hell knows? Maybe Marsch thought he was further along in the process than he really was. The folks on these boards have this built-in desire to make the USSF the "bad guy." Without any actual evidence one way or the other. There were lots of details given on how the hiring process for Berhalter went the first time around. It had to go thru layers of bureaucracy and approval. It's certainly possible that Marsch got thru certain levels, but not others. We have no idea.
Never had a contract. Left each gig based on trust in the person(s) recruiting me. The point is that if someone changes their mind midstream, like happened here, there’s a reasonably good chance that they violated the trust of the person that they changed it from. Happens every day, and for many reasons, most of which reflect poorly on the person that changed their mind, Leadership is lonely, in large part because you screw over a lot of people along the way. The fact that it happens so routinely doesn’t minimize the fact that people get screwed over, and I have no problem with people voicing their displeasure when it happens to them.
Most people have had interview processes they thought went great until they found out it didn’t go great enough to actually get the job.
Of course. Nobody here believes that Jesse is naive enough to be making waves over a straight forward job interview where he wasn’t selected, though. He’s missed out on plenty of big time manager gigs. Best case scenario for USSF is that it was a misunderstanding after a significant amount of discussion and negotiation. Worst case, someone went back on their word due to pressure or mandate from another constituency (players or board). Yup. What good is the paper if the person behind it is willing to lie to my face. All my employers have been “at will”.
Words also can be legally binding, although if you are leaving a good job, you would be wise to get an acceptance letter. This doesn't apply to Jesse, but if he had moved or taken other steps and had been officially told the job is his, he might have had legal recourse. If he had quit a job without official confirmation he had the job, that's on him. In other words, you can't whine until it's official.
The evidence of mistreatment is obviously way better with some official paper…but it means little to the underlying character of people. No whining until you can prove it would definitely be a boon to the already booming legal community, though.
What job did Marsch resign from for the US job? What are you talking about? If you resign your current job before the offer sheet is signed, you've made a really dumb move.
Not sure what you mean about boon to the legal community- it’s not actionable until they officially say you have the job. Neither you nor I have enough information to have any real opinion about who is more lame in this situation but we do know that Jesse is willing to whine publicly with no details. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
Fair enough. What do we do with Tyler Adam’s statement about everyone cheating? No details after all. All we know is that he accused every organization of lack of character. I tend to give it some credence because it rings true, but you may discount it as gossip without proof. It’s the same with Marsch.
I don't see those as remotely analogous. And the bottom line is - neither of us know enough to make any real judgements about what happened.
I don't doubt many people have, but I really don't recommend it. At least get the offer letter. If it's still employment at will the whole thing could still fall apart, but at least you're a bit better off with the piece of paper. Of course head coaches are typically under contract.
Fair enough, but Tyler seems credible and said he knew it for an absolute fact, so I’m not going to get all sanctimonious about the Canada spying thing….despite not really knowing how prevalent it is.
What I take from Adams comments is every coach is always trying to find an edge and sometimes they push envelopes to do so.
I’m wondering what folks here think about 1) Marsch’s comment and 2) ESPN’s reaction to Marsch’s comment: Me, I feel Marsch has the right to say what he wants, as long as he’s willing to face any possible consequences. For example, what if Marsch wants a job in the future and needs good “references” from one of the players. Highly doubtful one of the players he’s talking about would have nice things to say about Marsch. As for ESPN, I feel like Herc and Ale’s comments were in the vein of “Gasp - how dare Marsch point out the dichotomy (hypocrisy?) of certain players’ attitudes toward Berhalter!” Whether or not Marsch should point it out, he has the right to point out what some guys said pre Berhalter 2.0 versus what they said after Berhalter was fired. To Herc’s credit, he did admit that what Jesse said about the players’ comments is true, but Herc just wishes Marsch didn’t say it in the first place (e.g., don’t point out the obvious). Again, if Jesse is willing to face whatever consequences might come, go ahead and say whatever - as long as it’s true. p.s. I think it was in the recent Call it What You Want podcast where Jesse made those comments about certain players (without naming names). Starts @26:00 https://www.youtube.com/live/JQjcHiHf-eg?feature=shared