Jersey Teen Angulo Heading to Europe

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by jamison, May 16, 2007.

  1. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    I don't believe I've ever quoted an entire post in my reply before, and maybe I'm being mawkish now to do so, but I think this bears repeating. And I agree 100%.

     
  2. texasgaijin

    texasgaijin New Member

    Dec 9, 2004
    Mumbai, India
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The State Department is not in charge of citizenship. That is the sole responsibility of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), which falls under the Department of Homeland Security. USCIS used to be called INS. The State Department is in charge of visas--getting people into the country; USCIS is in charge of citizenship and immigration status--keeping people in the country. Don't call Kissinger; call Michael Chertoff.
     
  3. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    another excellent post justifying why we need youth pro development so the pros can take charge of developing this cadre of talent and expand the opportunities ...
     
  4. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, maybe we should put St Bendidict's Prep in charge of our youth development? :)
     
  5. Shaydee

    Shaydee Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    St. Benedict's is a big time recruiter of players from South/Central America and Africa. Almost none of their players actually pay to go there and half aren't citizens. It's a soccer, and now basketball, factory.
     
  6. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    There are a LOT of great young players in US but just being shut out of the system. I remembered that Argentine presses commented on the bad performance of USA team during 2006 by saying that US has a gold mine in that area, but no one really get in to dig it.

    At least Harkes, Ramos, Reyna, and Meola are all from this area. The problem is that many of young prospects never get a chance to develop, but I guess that more and more European clubs are looking into this gold mine now.

    By the way, many years ago, I was in US Navy with station in New Jersey. We went to Italy, so we had a team USA vs. a team Italy from Italian military. All our guys are from NY/NJ area with Latin American surname, and they just schooled Italian guys.
     
  7. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    This line struck me as funny -

    He's kind of old for us to get that excited about no?
     
  8. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SBI mentions that Angulo will be heading to Italy this summer on a select team that will play in some sort of showcase tournament. I have a feeling he will end up somewhere in Italy, as it seems to make the most sense at this point. I would personally like to see him end up at Ajax or PSV for pure development purposes. I think if he signs with a big club like Arsenal, then it would be easy for him to get lost in the shuffle.
     
  9. allycks

    allycks New Member

    Feb 14, 2002
    Parma, Italy
    There are lots of Italian clubs with outstanding track records of developing young talent. Roma, Atalanta, Udinese, and Parma immediately come to mind.
     
  10. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I suppose that would be nice, but neither club seems to be particularly interested in "coaching up" American teenage players who are already at the age where the clubs expect them to start battling for first-team time.

    Ajax looked at Villanueva and Davies around the same age and passed; PSV has had mixed results (from its perspective) with Nguyen, who came to them at 19 or so (and also has been hurt, of course). Bradley has succeeded over there but he played years in MLS first; Rogers turned back around quickly after going to Holland at 18 out of college.

    The time for American players to go to the Eredivisie is probably at 14-16 or never. The Dutch have a very specific vision of how the game should be played and don't appear particularly interested in spending $500,000/year and up to teach adult players how to do it.
     
  11. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Great post. Dempsey as a 21 year old trying out at Feyenoord probably fit that bill, too. They liked his skills and athleticism, but felt that they he needed to learn the game better -- and they didn't want to do that task.

    You write ages 14-16. Very similar to what my kid's coach says. When he takes 13 year olds to Europe, his teams can play with anybody, but when he comes back with 15 year olds a gap has developed. The U.S. boys remain athletic and pretty decent on the ball, but they have fallen behind on tactics. The Euros are training almost daily with serious tactical instruction at that age.
     
  12. Easy Morning Rebel

    Feb 12, 2006
    Des Moines, IA
    You've obviously never seen Berhalter play up top.
     
  13. dub77

    dub77 New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    in denial
    I'm sure you've posted this a million times before but any suggestions on how to close the gap? I don't mean shipping all our you kids to Europe but what can we do here? We are producing more and more players with decent to good skills but there is still something lacking and I think your comments point to something.
     
  14. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    There's no mystery to it. The late teens is when overseas academy play gets serious. That's the component we don't have yet -- daily, club-funded, high-level training and match play for lots and lots of kids.
     
  15. dub77

    dub77 New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    in denial
    Simple enough
     
  16. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    What Dave said. The two big items -

    1) Switching from training 2/3x weekly to 5x weekly.
    2) Improved coaching.

    By improved coaching, I don't mean necessarily to boot out all the existing guys and bring in briliant new people (wherever they might be). I mean, running the training sessions & games explicitly to develop professionals. This means spending more time on sophisticated tactics as opposed to the fitness, strength, aggression, & direct training methods that are so commonly employed so as to win youth games; and it means specialized positional training, including the individualization of instruction. Finally, it means homework. The players should understand that this is no longer just a recreational activity, it is a vocational activity. Fitness, diet, strength training, possibly even technical or tactical exercises .. the players can expect to have demands placed on them that go past what they get from the official club sessions.

    It's about preparing kids to be professionals, as opposed to soccer being a social and recreational activity. I've only given the bare minimum. But it would be a great start. I would assume that this is the direction that the MLS Academies are heading.
     
  17. rct2009

    rct2009 Member

    Aug 22, 2006
    NY/Bloomington, IN
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someone was saying before that they were pissed that angulo and ferrari havnt gotten alot of chances for the national team. Maybe they just didnt fit the personality of the team. Sometimes you need the right players and not the best players. For this see real madrid.
     
  18. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ferrari has been called into U20 camp at least once and Angulo has not been eligible to participate in any games, since he is not a US citizen. Both will get their chances with the national team down the road if they continue to develop and Angulo can secure his citizenship.

    As far as you other point, national teams are a bit different from club teams. With the way the US national team is set-up, players will come in for a certain camp. When the US starts gearing up for a certain competition, then your point becomes more valid.

    Ives is going back to the Red Bulls practice today so we should get another report on Angulo if he participates in training today.
     
  19. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    I was watching the NBA play-offs and (I think it was) Mike Fratello who said, "What you're seeing from these players is the culmination of this year's training - the fade@shoot, the hook shots, the scoop shots, the 3-pointers, etc. - that these guys have been working on with the assistant coaches each day."

    He really made it sound that these drills/exercises is what the coaching is all about.

    And it made sense. In other words, is Arsene Wenger a brilliant strategist (and I think he's good but not perfect) or a brilliant teacher who sees each player's weaknesses and then works with them via his assistants for hours every day, so each player becomes far improved version of himself a year or to down the road?

    I believe it's the latter and is really a pro-version of the youth academy approach. You teach the same basic thing but require a higher degree of perfection. Then, once you reach a point where each one of your guys can beat each one of theirs, making up the appropriate strategy becomes a lot easier.
     
  20. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    The basketball analogy is a good one, albeit for an older age.

    My comment actually stems from one made by a European international forward, who told me that starting at age 15 his club placed him in specialized striker training. Finishing, finishing, finishing, finishing. Finishing. In his view, the U.S. would struggle for forwards until it started to treat its top youth prospects the same way.
     
  21. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is, I think, the point behind the new SuperLeague (or whatever they are calling it) proposal.
     
  22. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Except (and you follow the NBA more than I), a lot of the young NBA players (high school grads and college freshmen) are almost as raw as Eddie Johnson, so they need all sort of work.

    I guess this would exclude Arsenal (this year).
     
  23. ami-berliner

    ami-berliner Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Berlin
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think JohnR hit it on the head. That age is when the majority of kids start to make a career out of it overseas. I have a friend that played for Newcastle's youth team until he was 17. He said that at about 14-15 is when you can really tell who is good and who is special. He played with M. Chopra and a few others who were in the pipeline at that time. I think that the increased training sessions are part of it, but I think the bigger issue is the second point JohnR makes about coaching is more important. I think a lot of youth coaches are very insecure about what they do. It has to be according to them. If you have any flair and don't play the way they think you should, you're out. I think this is changing in the US now, but traditionally that's the feeling I have. In a thread a while back someone said something about Henry's time at Clairefontaine. The coaches let him play to his strengths, but really made him improve his weaknesses (crossing and heading I think it was). This takes time, money and multiple coaches running multiple drills. It would be like letting Adu keep his attacking mentality, but focusing on his defensive frailties while at IMG. Just a few thoughts.
     
  24. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    People say that, but I must admit that my son's experience has been different at the club level (although not ODP). Perhaps he has simply been fortunate.
     
  25. SCBozeman

    SCBozeman Member

    Jun 3, 2001
    St. Louis
    Obviously I don't have your friend's perspective, but in an interview a few years ago, Alex Ferguson said that in all his time at Man United he'd seen only one youth player he knew was going to be a great senior team player: Ryan Giggs. (This statement was about a year before they bought Rooney.) That's an amazing statement considering the number of great youth players that have gone through it: Beckham, Nevilles, Butt, Fletcher, Scholes, etc.

    He said that you cannot tell enough about 16 year olds to know whether they would be great at 19 -- that simply too much changes in that time. Some don't get fast, some don't get strong, some don't become smarter, some prefer girls to soccer, etc.

    Now maybe the difference between your friend's perspective and Ferguson's is (a) your friend's version of "special" (i.e., Feguson thinks it means top senior player and your friend men's good enough to go pro), or (b) Ferguson's got a higher standard.

    What does that mean for our debate? 1. Flocks of great American 16 year olds could get a reserve team or academy position at a top European squad, but who's saying if any of them will pan out in the end? Even given every advantage, some (or even all) players simply don't blossom. 2. The "serious" academy work has to be matched by a player who can bring it to the next level. And that's a crap shoot as much as coaching and scouting.
     

Share This Page