Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons Well its gone and been threadjacked. C'mon man - we live in the internet age -- any article will come back to the states via big soccer or otherwise. The fact that you found those quotes is proof of that. I know they speak fairly candidly but they aren't going to slag off the league that pays their bills. The championship is one step below the best league in the world and regularly gets scouted by the top league, pays more, better training, better grounds, better managers, more fans, better support, more full internationals, etc... For fuk sake Mike Grella was scouted by Arsenal and ManU after his first League One reserve game... How often do the top clubs come and check out DC United/Houston/New Englad? *crickets*
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons I'm just not sure what someone like Walter Smith, who has never coached here, would have to gain by lying about the league. Hell, given Rangers' financial problems and that Rangers have purchased MLS players before, you would think he would have more of an interest in talking down the quality of the league to improve his bargaining position. At the end of the day, you can dismiss every single statement that people with experience at a high level have had to say about MLS as some sort of lie, but until I hear more than one or two such people say that MLS is League One quality I'm going to continue trusting what the experts have had to say thus far.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons One or two players on each team might be of the quality to play in higher leagues and worth Rangers money (like Edu for instance) but to say the whole squad could is a complete exaggeration. If Walter Smith slags off MLS it makes doing business with the league far tougher and certainly wouldnt drive the price down. MLS coaches arent going to have a go at the quality of their league, be it in Scotland or elsewhere. I'm not calling them liars, Im calling them professionals who say the right things to the press, who knows what they think behind closed doors. Instead of quoting people selectively why don't you also quote Landon Donovan (who knows a fair amount on the subject I would think) who basically said outside of a couple of players on each team the MLS has little technical ability and relies on athleticism. But forget quotes just think of it rationally, how can MLS be on the same level with a league that has this going for it: One step below the best league in the world Regularly gets scouted by the top league Pays more Better training Better grounds Better managers More fans & better support More full internationals Reserve leagues Established youth academies Football Culture 60m pounds to the top 3 etc... I apologize but I'm not buying what your selling to me.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons I'm not quoting selectively. I'm sincerely telling you that in the several years I have been following Big Soccer, where I have seen many quotes from high level professionals regarding the quality of MLS, I have only read a couple of very flippant remarks comparing MLS to third division (or more often pub league) football, while the vast majority of quotes I've read, many of them not from people connected to MLS, have compared MLS teams to Championship sides. Landon's quote is fairly accurate and honest in my opinion, but his quote did not say MLS is third division (or lower) quality. I think he or his father may have said something similar though about a decade ago when that might have been more accurate.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons I'm not comparing MLS to pub leagues -- i think its on par with League One, which is a good standard, better then you or BigRose30 realize it is -- forget quotes made to the press or what Big Soccer says -- address my bullet points above and how MLS can even be remotely on par with the championship on those points. Understand its not an insult to say that a league that is less then 20 years old is on par with the 3rd division of the country that invented the fricking game.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons Case in point Eddie Johnson, a microcosm of our argument. Eddie scored goals for fun in MLS because of his pace and ability to get behind the defense. He goes to the championship via Fulham and is lampooned by the locals (turns into a cult figure cause now that hes made some progress and tries harder then he first did) because of his utter lack of touch and technical ability (something most yanks realized before he moved to England) and has only one goal to his tally thus far. Now if Eddie went to League One I'm pretty sure his record would be far closer to what it was at KC. Now no more Eddie Johnson - we'll leave that to his thread - just thought it was a recent example to point to.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons Since you edited the message to which you wished for me to reply, I'll respond to the edit first. You're grasping at straws at this point. Do you seriously think that Walter Smith's response to a question that only a few Big Soccer obsessives in this country will read will make it hard for him to do business with the league? The interviewer asked him a straightforward question about the quality of the league. Smith could have respectfully answered the way you did, which is to say MLS is about League One quality and that is no insult considering it's just over a decade old. But, you somehow think he will temper even that polite response, because he's worried about angering MLS? Some of these points are too subjective to argue (better training, better manager, or even how big a step one step below the Premiership is), some of them are almost irrelevant to the players' quality, some I don't believe have been fact-checked very thoroughly by you, and some of them require some explanation. MLS has roughly as many full internationals as the Championship, largely because the US national team grants a couple caps to a large number of players. But, if you were to limit your list to players with let's say at least 10 international caps, both MLS and the Championship have roughly 4 such players per team, with roughly the same quality of nations represented (as determined by FIFA or ELO rankings). (I just spent way too long researching that.) MLS is likely not scouted extensively by the Premiership due to the fact that stringent work permit requirements would limit their scouting to a handful of players, many of whom do make the leap to better leagues. Also the fact that the Championship is in the same country as the Premiership probably makes scouting more convenient and more reliable too. MLS pay structures are limited by the lack of interest in soccer in this country. But there are a number of factors and non-pay incentives that could account for an abundance of players in MLS whose quality is not reflected in their pay. Eddie Pope is one such player who turned down an offer to play for a Champions League Bundesliga team, even though he likely would have seen a significant salary increase, instead playing out the entirety of his career in MLS. The Eddie Johnson example isn't a very convincing one. He was a terribly inconsistent player in MLS, never putting together two decent seasons in a row, and he had years where he looked even worse than he has this season. The season before his last was one such season, and only a lack of depth in the league kept him from seeing the bench more than he did. Either way, I agree with Smith and Nicol who believe that MLS sides would find themselves overmatched against top Championship sides, which Cardiff, who are making a strong push for promotion, likely are at this point. This will be my last post on the topic, since I regret derailing the JJ discussion and hope that my stopping now will help get back on track.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons So this what I've gathered from this thread: Internet links are meaningless, unless they prove the point that I want. Everything in Europe is sweet. Joe Enochs for the national team!
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons You are 100% meathead, its in the water there... Your comments throughout this thread are as baseless as this one above and I'd say you are whats wrong with BigSoccer with your hit-and-run straw man arguments and weak insults - what you say doesn't even merit a response but I must. JJ himself said he's getting capped this summer, get over it already fanboy. That is not a subjective question about comparing MLS to Europe, the question was the USSF been in contact with you about a cap? And the answer was YES you moron. But clearly you must know more about his level of play, cause hell, he's in the 3rd division and you can't watch those matches on Setanta/FoxSports/ESPN so theres no way he could do a job for the USMNT. Therefore you must insult everyone who wants to give him a chance or have a discussion about where he might fit in or what his abilities are. Get a fricking clue dude and leave this thread for people who actually want to discuss JJ instead of taking him to the woodshed for no apparent reason whatsover. Thats all I've learned from a meathead like you. By the way KALM I dont lump you in with BigRose, I just respectfully disagree. There is nothing subjective about these points -- look at the teams in the championships there are clubs with over hundred years of history, grounds with 20k-50k, no fake grass, no one making 12k/year (excluding schoolboys), no reserve league, they have established youth academies, there is a football culture there that ours wont match for many years, the winner of MLS doesnt get 60m pounds, players wages are ungodly amounts higher on average. The championship also has a vastly higher wage structure for staff so it would stand to reason that everyone from trainers on down to managers are going to be top quality. Plus, how can players get better training when there isnt even have a reserve league? How can you develop youth players properly? I point again to Mike Grella getting scouted by Arse and ManU after one League One reserve game. I do believe that has an effect on the quality of play as well. Maybe you have a point on the caps but when you line up all those other facts I respectfully disagree with Walter Smith, Nichols, Morrow that MLS is on par with the Championship. I'll say it again, I dont think its an insult that our league, thats still growing, is at the same level top-to-bottom as the 3rd division of England when they invented the game a hundred+ years ago. With time we can reach the Championship level but its still some way off.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons It wasnt hard to call Jeremiah White into camp (i know it was a January camp. a total different animal then gold cup camp). He was called up last year in Jan 08 camp after finishing off season playing 2nd division in Denmark. Is that comparable to league 1 in England? I say so. I am not talking about Jemal as a forward but if he's consider right sided midfielder then he should definitely be consider a call up to camp. If White can get a call up by bradley, i dont see why he cant. Also, it's not like we have a bunch of players in Europe that can play in that position besides Dempsey.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons Let me stress my points in a more civil manner: I doubt the abilities of 3rd division players to become full internationals. The 3rd division in any country is picked through by the higher divisions of talent. I don't find the level of the English 3rd division to be as good as MLS. I've watched myself, and people more credible agree. The US will have a B team at the Gold Cup, so Jemal very well might get a call. Congrats to him, but if wants to be involved with the A team, he's going to have to play at a higher level week to week. I really don't think there's anything all that obtuse about these points of view. In fact, I'd say they are rather conventional. I could just call you a Eurosnob or an Anglophile instead. Would you prefer that? It's just not the right way to go.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons I think Jemal getting called to Gold Cup camp this year would be comparable to White being called for January camp. Both play in leagues that Bob Bradley probably isn't watching, and each camps comes in the respective players' offseason.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons No way dude, don't bring logic and reason into this thread I agree, its not like we have an abundance quality of right-sided wingers, bring him in, have a look, if he does well in training and at the gold cup then keep giving him a go. Don't see why he should be eliminated from consideration just cause of the league he plays in. Same goes for Zak Whitbread, if he can give us cover at CB, then call him in too. By the way BigRose I wanted to give you a heads up. The Zak Whitbread thread also has BS posters on there calling for a League One player to be called into camp and capped so you may want to copy/paste some of your points on here over to that thread as well. PS - I prefer Angophile meathead. PPS - Jozy and Freddy dont even play week to week at any level and we call them in. JJ has played at a very high level in a respectable league and he merits a look, period.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons yes I agree with you MLS is better than league 1. However, if JJ is consider to be in B team by coach Bradley than I would think he's as good as other B team pool players in that Gold Cup Camp. If our Coach thinks he's good enough to be involve in B team that means he'll get a chance to be in A team if he impresses. No? if our coach thinks the level of competition isnt a issue, what makes u think it's an issue?
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons so Bradley only calls up players that's in their offseason. he didnt really care if you are good ro bad. if u have nothing to do, come on by to camp. i guess talent didnt matter anymore.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons BigRose thinks because he plays in League One he should be removed from consideration, no real reason or sound logic behind his theory, just an abstract baseless take.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons Are you just winding me up now? Or you really believe that's what I said?
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons yeah i am but it is my point of view. there's really no proof or poof in my logic.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons Well there's no need to alter my point of view to express your own. And congrats on winding me up, although the 3 cups of coffee might have contributed.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons i am not going to get a card b/c of you. i will end it here unless you can prove your poof.
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons I said: I think Jemal getting called to Gold Cup camp this year would be comparable to White being called for January camp. Both play in leagues that Bob Bradley probably isn't watching, and each camps comes in the respective players' offseason. you said: so Bradley only calls up players that's in their offseason. he didnt really care if you are good ro bad. if u have nothing to do, come on by to camp. i guess talent didnt matter anymore. I've underlined the parts that you fabricated, for emphasis only of course. It's so obvious that I began to think you must be winding me up. Right?
Re: Jemal Johnson joins MK Dons but isnt it odd in your logic that coach bradley cant find time to watch league 1 while you have watched it.