Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R] - Part II

Discussion in 'Japanese Abroad' started by shuvy87, Nov 30, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sc-f

    sc-f Member+

    May 23, 2009
    Club:
    SC Freiburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I don't think that anything is decided yet. Japanese sites quote him saying: "This might be my last match for Venlo. I think I will make some kind of decision soon." The original text/context is for blog-members only, so I didn't see that. With what Johan is saying, everything indicates at ongoing talks just now. And with CSKA certainly a good side but not exactly a dream move (not to mention about the Russian Premier League amidst a long break until mid-March), I think his agent and Venlo are just using their offer to raise interest in time for other clubs to reconsider.
     
  2. nakata101

    nakata101 Member

    Mar 2, 2008
    Impression!! The no.7 also play well, they are good partner.
     
  3. sakobo-redded

    sakobo-redded Red Card

    Dec 18, 2009
    Mishima, Japan
    speaking of the russian league, i always remember this club. :D

    FC Luch-Energiya Vladivostok
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Luch-Energiya_Vladivostok
     
  4. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Morimoto helps Catania beat Juventus by getting a penalty
     
  5. sakobo-redded

    sakobo-redded Red Card

    Dec 18, 2009
    Mishima, Japan
  6. AmericanKaka

    AmericanKaka Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Smart lad. Europe is a waste of Japanese players abilities for the most part.
     
  7. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    He went to Schalke's game against Mainz and attended some other teams practices.

    I guess that was just sightseeing right?
     
  8. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Is Uchida a ********** or something?
     
  9. stefanole

    stefanole Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    Hiroshima
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Lol. There are face-saving manoeuvres, and then there is just lying.
     
  10. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    The vagueness of some of these posts make it hard to tell what people are trying to imply. The point you all need to consider is that Uchida is only 21, and in his 3rd year (of 5) under contract to Kashima. In other words no matter what he might want, Kashima has to sign off on any transfer overseas, which means that unless the overseas club in question is dangling a MINIMUM of 1.5-2 million euro as a transfer fee, none of these "deals" are even worth talking about.

    Considering how Kashima got raped by Olympique Marseille, you can be sure that they will drive a hard bargain on any future transfers. I cant even imagine them letting Uchida go for anything less than 1.5mn, and probably no less than 2mn. Keep that in mind when you hear any rumour regarding Uchida. For the next two years, unless some club with huge piles of money to spend has been reported as making an OFFICIAL offer (ie. to the Antlers, not to Uchida), then any trip Uchida makes overseas is - by definition - a case of sightseeing or "building relationships", and has no chance whatsoever of turning into a transfer.
     
  11. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    If it does not require too much time, could you tell some details about that ?
    I'm still embarassed about what we've done with Koji though.
     
  12. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Im sure there is something in the old RSN archives. If you have trouble searching then maybe if you remind me the date of the transfer, I can take a look . . . .
     
  13. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Never mind . . . I found it

    Keep in mind that it was written just days after the theft . . . erm . . . I mean transfer . . . was announced so I wasnt exactly being "diplomatic" in my choice of words.

    Marseille se Fiche du Monde
    The biggest story this year involving an off-season trade was the "deal" that sent Nakata Koji to France, to join former Japan national team coach Phillippe Troussier. When this story first came to light, we viewed it as very good news, and had high hopes that it might foster even closer ties between the J. League and France. Until recently, almost all players hoping to move overseas have set their sights on just a small number of countries, cheifly Italy, England and Spain (for obvious reasons) but also including somewhat less prominent leagues such as the Eredivisie. Though the football leagues in France are generally a step down from La Liga, Serie A and the Premiership, most would agree that France's top division is as good as, if not better than the Eredivisie in terms of competitiveness and the potential for a player to make a name for himself world-wide. The first Japanese player to explore the opportunities in France was Nozomu Hiroyama, who was picked up breifly by Montpellier, but for reasons that most J.League fans will understand, he proved to be a complete flop. Hiroyama's abilities were too one-diminsional, and limited, to succeed in France, and he soon returned to Japan in failure.
    But the deal that sent Daisuke Matsui to French division 2 club Le Mans, last year, proved to be a different story altogether. Though we were among the people who had doubts about whether Matsui would have the physical strength to withstand the physical side of the game in France Div 2, the former Kyoto Purple Sanga ace has proven his doubters wrong, emerging as a key link in the Le Mans attack, and winning the hearts of the local supporters with two consecutive match-winning goals, in early January. Thus, when Nakata was invited to take part in Marseille's early January training camp, we greeted the news with approval, seeing it as the next logical step for Japan to cultivate the French football market, and vice versa.

    But in the words of Phil Collins , "something happened on the way to heaven". It is a bit of an understatement to say that things did not work our quite as we had anticipated. To understand the situation completely, readers must understand the system of contracts between players and clubs that prevails in Japan. Clubs usually have only one-year contracts with their players, and renegotiate them every year, usually in January. This system works quite well in Japan for both players and clubs, for several reasons. First, by renewing the contract every year, both clubs and players can ask for adjustments to the terms, based on the changing conditions of both the club and the player. For example, a youngster who joined a mid-table club straight out of high school would probably receive only a very low salary base. However, if that player turned out to be a star, contributing greatly to the team as it moved up in the rankings, the player would be able to request an upgrade to his pay scale at the end of the year, based on both his own contributions and the club's success. The other side of the coin comes when a club which has been paying players quite well is suddenly demoted to the J2. The team may have invested a lot of time and effort in developing its its players, and earned their loyalty by treating them fairly in the past. At the end of the year, the club will ask key players to accept a cut in pay -- for just a year -- in order to help the club climb back into the top division. It is quite common, particularly for younger players, to accept this sort of pay cut out of loyalty to the club.

    So long as everyone involved was committed to negotiating in good faith, the system worked well. However, there is one stipulation in the domestic laws governing player contracts, which helps to discourage those who might be tempted to take advantage of the short-term nature of contracts. There is a 30-month first-refusal clause covering all J.League contracts. Even after a player is out of contract, his former club has the right to demand a "reasonable" transfer fee if that player joins another club within 30 months.

    In the past, J.League clubs assumed that the 30-month rule applied to overseas transfers as well. Indeed, the only player to challenge this rule -- Nozomu Hiroyama -- never really succeeded in winning the point. The JFA refused to clear Hiroyama to join another club after his contract with JEF United expired, leaving him in a sort of "contractural limbo" for nearly a full year. Eventually, JEF relented and allowed him to join Braga, in Portugal, without a transfer fee, but the 30-month rule was never challenged.

    But that was before Olympique Marseile got into the act. It appears that M. Troussier, who clearly knows a thing or two about the system of contract in Japan, discussed the matter with Nakata's Agent, Mr. Tanabe (can you say "blood-sucking leech? I thought you could . . .), and agreed to screw the Antlers over on the transfer fee, and split the profits. With Tanabe's blessing, Marseille offered a ridiculously low amount -- around 250,000 euros, depending on who you believe -- to the Antlers as a transfer fee for Nakata. Though it was only natural that the Antlers would be offended by such a low offer, Mr. Tanabe assured Marseille that even if Kashima balked at the offer, they could sign Nakata anyway once his contract expired. He would ensure that Nakata accepted the deal even without agreement from the Antlers.

    Basically, this negotiating tactic was a bit like playing "chicken" in a speeding truck -- if the Antlers had been cold-hearted and determined enough, they might have fought the transfer on the basis of the 30-month rule. Since this rule exists only on contracts inside Japan, FIFA would surely have blocked Nakata from playing for the Antlers, but by the same token, by refusing to certify him as eligible for an overseas transfer, the JFA could have blocked Nakata from playing for Marseille. In the end, Nagata would have been forced sit on his butt for as long as two-and-a-half years, or until one side or the other backed down. Essentially, if the Antlers had been willing to destroy Koji Nakata's career in the process, they might possibly have won the point in the end. But at what cost?

    Clearly, Marseille has no such scruples, which will explain the wording of this article's title. Many of the "unwritten rules" in Japan are very similar to this 30-month rule. They exist mainly to preserve harmony, and ensure that everyone's interests are protected. There is no need to resort to lawyers and courts of law, because everyone involved operates in good faith. By breaching this principle of good faith, Marseille has set a very disturbing precedent. J.League clubs immediately sent all their lawers into action, seeking ways to alter the nature of their contracts and ensure that no overseas club could "steal" a player in this way, ever again. The Kashima Antlers organisation came out of the fray with heads held high, and immediately won the admiration and sympathy of all football fans -- even those who have viewed the Antlers as rivals in the past. The club announced that it was releasing Nakata from all obligations, and wished him the best in Europe. They flatly refused the "after the fact" offer of 250,000 euros from Marseille, making it clear that they did not want to soil their hands by touching Marseille's dirty money.

    Koji Nakata himself comes off looking a bit ungrateful to the Antlers, who not only employed him for seven years, but just finished carrying him for nine months as he rehabilitated from a knee injury -- with full salary and benefits throughout that period. However, knowing Koji's character, he will find a way to repay the Antlers through publicity and support in his future career. In his final message to fans on the Antlers' website, he vowed to "become a stronger player, and then come home (to the Antlers) . . . " implying that he by no means is walking away from his commitment to the club that developed him.

    As for Marseille . . . as they say in Paris, "vous vous trompez tout a fait" (or as they say in South Philly, "piss off you cheese-eating surrender monkey"). Perhaps the team thinks that they are somehow "saving money" by doing over the Antlers in such a contemptable way. Well, that is one way of looking at it . . .

    . . . for this writer's part, though, as a long-time fan of Koji Nakata, I would have been one of the first in line to buy a replica jersey of a European team with his name on the back. But if you think you are going to sell me one now, after thumbing your fat gallic nose at Japan, and every standard of moral decency that exists in Japanese culture, better think again. The smart thing would have been to simply pay the fee, and make the money back on merchandising to the legions of Antlers fans, or by playing friendly matches with the Antlers during the summer. One has to wonder how eager the Antlers will be to play a "friendly" with Olympique Marseille after what has transpired.

    Having said that, there have been some signs in recent days that the club is beginning to recognise its mistake, and look for ways to make amends. On the day that Nakata was presented to the press, OM president Pape Diouf made some comment about wanting to "start with a clean sheet, by resolving the issue of the transfer fee". This would certainly be a step in the right direction. Japanese football fans are quite familiar with the "character" of men like Philippe Troussier and Koji Tanabe (if the word character can be applied to creatures of deceit such as these). It would be wrong to smear all those at OM with the same brush, and if M. Diouf was being sincere in his comments, it would indicate that we need to give Marseille the benefit of the doubt. Even so, it will take quite a bit of effort on the part of the OM management to reverse the bad first impression that they have made on Japanese fans. We hope that the club will continue taking steps to repair this tattered image.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  14. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    Thank you very much. I'm ashamed of what we've done.
    It surprises me a little because Pape Diouf is usually a nice and elegant man. I hope we will reconstruct a relationship with J.League by any mean ...
     
  15. yakuza fc

    yakuza fc Member

    Jan 4, 2009
    Sydney
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    keisuke honda has officially signed with CSKA Moscow
     
  16. nakata101

    nakata101 Member

    Mar 2, 2008
    I check the official CSKA Moscow website still dint talk about Honda. :confused:
     
  17. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
  18. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    the russian CSKA site says he's signed. very brief, no interview just says Honda's signed for CSKA from VVV. the english version hasn't done so yet.
     
  19. TrooperBari

    TrooperBari Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2001
    Jakarta
    Update from down south:

    Kenji Adachihara scored his first goals of the season for Bontang FC. He had a hat-trick in a 6-1 defeat of Persiwa Wamena, last season's Super League runner-up.
     
  20. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Takayuki Morimoto has fallen out of favour with the new manager at Catania. He hasn't started the last 2 games and come on as a sub for Llama in about the 60th for both.

    Also, Takahito Soma has been starting for CS Maritimo.

    Also Maya Yoshida in training camp with VVV has broken a metatarsal very early into the camp. His transfer is no longer certain but they said he has done enough to prove he would be an addition to the team.
     
  21. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    For how long he will be out ?
     
  22. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I'm sure that Morimoto will have plenty of suitors if he decides to leave.

    If he doesn't play then he should leave.
     
  23. yakuza fc

    yakuza fc Member

    Jan 4, 2009
    Sydney
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    2 months
     
  24. YakYak

    YakYak Member

    Feb 9, 2009
    So, with the winter transfer period coming to an end, in summary for JPN abroad players...

    Pros
    - A new face in Europe: Yoshida Maya (Venlo's Keisuke-replacement for JPN merchandising?)
    - Soma Takahito: Getting a bit more consistant playing time in Portugal (albeit mostly as a sub)

    Cons
    - Shunsuke: Seeing less and less playing time
    - Morimoto: Seeing less playing time
    - Ono: Calling it quits in Europe and coming back to J.League before retiring
    - Ina: Contemplating similar situation as Ono
    - Not as many new faces in Europe as some may have expected? No Tulio, no Kagawa...

    In between
    - Hasebe: Still getting playing time, but team isn't on a high as last season
    - Matsui Daisuke: Seeing more playing time than last season (which was next to nothing), but team is absolutely dismal... are his only two realistic options for next season Ligue 2 or return to J.League?

    The unknown
    - Kobayashi Daigo: Is he still on "loan" next season with, the, uh, the Norwegian team? Wasn't he practicing with some bundesliga teams?
    - Ito Sho: OK, so you're on a Ligue 1 team... but what exactly have you accomplished?
    - Ibusuki Hiroshi: Similar to above.
    - Mizuno Koki: Are you alive out there?
    - Honda Keisuke: CSKA Moscow... certainly a "bigger" club. Hope his career won't be just known for being awesome in a third-tier european leagues...

    Did I miss anything?
     
  25. furtho

    furtho Member

    Nov 19, 2004
    The position with Daigo Kobayashi is unclear. He completed 2009 in Norway with Stabaek and then in December had a week's training in Germany with Koln. This did not lead to a deal and he returned to Norway after it had finished. He then went back to Japan over Christmas and New Year.

    There certainly has been no word that Daigo will return to Omiya - or elsewhere in Japan - although he indicated in an interview with the Stabaek website that his preference was to find a deal with a European club.
     

Share This Page