I wouldn't care about any of them; there are 34 BL2 games this season. However, scouting and selling points are different things.
Buddle. EJ's resurgence. Hejduk was 28 on '02. Brad Davis, potentially. Soccer players can contribute into their early-mid 30's (Drogba, Lampard, Cherundolo, etc). This idea that they are done by 26 or 30, is absurd. We need all the help we can get. If a manager thinks a guy can help the USMNT, short or long term, I have no problem giving them a look.
I wasn't commenting on those players. I was commenting on the fact that we have quite a number of centerbacks in MLS that are performing at good level at those elevated ages.......................but the only guys we're talking about on this thread are newbies. And I get why that is. It's because people are always looking for "the next big thing." But guess what? RIGHT NOW............Bobby Boswell is better than Berry, Hedges, Okugo, John Anthony Brooks or any number of young centerbacks people want to talk about. And Bobby Boswell ain't the only one. It's one of the things that's bothered me about this centerback debate in the Klinsmann era. People seem to think we're devoid of centerbacks. WE'RE NOT! Klinsmann just seems to only call in the same guys over and over again. Chad Marshall is still playing at a high level. Jay DeMerit is playing at a high level. And there are others as well. Instead we want to move Maurice Edu to centerback for a WCQ? On what planet does that make sense? People are suggesting we should call up a central midfielder who never plays matches for the centerback position at a WCQ?
I think it has more to do with the system JK is trying to play. No offense to Marshall or Boswell... but they just dont have the foot skills/technique to play in a faster, higher paced, NT level where you need good distribution out the back, and guys with decent foot skills to push a higher up defensive line.
The "hoof it and quick counter" style, best used by the USA against World Cup Finals quality rivals, requires youth. If the USA played the passing game, like Italy or Spain, I can see being ok with several players in their 30s. But that's not the case.
OK..............so that's why we start Goodson and Bocanegra. Something doesn't add up. And that is not what everybody's darling Omar Gonzalez is known for.
Yea. But IMO and probably JK's, Big Omar's foot skills are better than Boswell's and Demerits. Plus younger, more room for improvement. Goodson is pretty good with his feet (for a USMNT defender, again better than demerit and boswell). Boca actually CAN pass it better than many remember from his time last cycle. Look at him vs. Italy. A 180 compared to what we were used to. He was excellent that game. No long ball boca at all.
This is not just in the JK era. Remember that the CBs at GC2011 were Goodson and Ream as starters with Gooch on the bench! For better or worse pro sports is all bout potential. Players get evaluated all the time on specific intrinsic attributes that they need to have in order to succeed at a certain level. The older you get without displaying said attributes or demonstrating significant achievement despite that "lack" the more you get overlooked. That is the reality.
So here is the thing.. I would put Boswell squarely behind Besler, Omar, and John. And those guys are fighting for spots with Cameron, Boca, and Goodson. And its not like guys like Boswell or Marshall dominate MLS in a way that demands you take them seriously. They are decent MLS players but by no means guys who command the opponents attention. So really, when we are talking about who is the 7th or 8th guy on the depth chart we are talking about guys who really have very little chance of playing. In light of that, it makes sense to call in a player who you might not nescessarily call in if it were do or die and they might play. So yeah, if we are struck by an injury plague and its WCQ and the choices are Bobby Boswell or Austin Berry, I take Boswell a lot more seriously. But thats really not where we are at right now.
Welcome to the club. On bs the discussion on cb's comes down to which flavor of koolaid u prefer, lime or cherry. We are supposedly stacked at fb and thin at cb. Really? The call ups are Beita and Morrow and Connor Lade at fb. You call that stacked? Now look at the list of cb's who cant get a call up to Jan camp. John, DeMerit, Hedges, Berry, and the vets you mentioned. We are swimming in cb's and Klinsi doesnt call any because he wants to play world class fb Cameron at cb and, I guess, fly into Brazil with Connor Lade at fb.
January 2009 camp roster bolded are players that made the 2010 world cup roster: 3 players GOALKEEPERS (4): Jon Busch (Chicago Fire), Will Hesmer (Columbus Crew), Troy Perkins (Valerenga IF), Matt Pickens (Colorado Rapids) DEFENDERS (6): Jonathan Bornstein (Chivas USA), Danny Califf (FC Midtjylland), Ugo Ihemelu (Colorado Rapids), Michael Parkhurst (FC Nordsjaelland), Chris Wingert (Real Salt Lake), Marvell Wynne (Toronto FC) MIDFIELDERS (8): Brian Carroll (Columbus Crew), Ricardo Clark (Houston Dynamo), Eddie Gaven (Columbus Crew), Stuart Holden (Houston Dynamo), Jack Jewsbury (Kansas City Wizards), Sacha Kljestan (Chivas USA), Robbie Rogers (Columbus Crew), John Thorrington (Chicago Fire) FORWARDS (4): Brian Ching (Houston Dynamo), Kenny Cooper (FC Dallas), Charlie Davies (Hammarby IF), Chris Rolfe (Chicago Fire) January 2005 camp roster bolded are players that made the 2006 world cup team: 10 players! GOALKEEPERS (4) – Brad Guzan (Chivas USA), Kevin Hartman (Los Angeles Galaxy), Matt Reis (New England Revolution), Jonny Walker (Columbus Crew) DEFENDERS (8) – Chris Albright (Los Angeles Galaxy)**, Jimmy Conrad (Kansas City Wizards), Todd Dunivant (Los Angeles Galaxy), Frankie Hejduk (Columbus Crew)**, Ugo Ihemelu (Los Angeles Galaxy), Chad Marshall (Columbus Crew), Heath Pearce (FC Nordsjælland), Eddie Pope (Real Salt Lake) MIDFIELDERS (12) –Freddy Adu (D.C. United), Brian Carroll (D.C. United), Ricardo Clark (Houston), Clint Dempsey (New England Revolution), Landon Donovan (Los Angeles Galaxy), Justin Mapp (Chicago Fire), Kyle Martino (Columbus Crew), Pablo Mastroeni (Colorado Rapids), Pat Noonan (New England Revolution), Ben Olsen (D.C. United), Santino Quaranta (D.C. United), Steve Ralston (New England Revolution) FORWARDS (6) – Brian Ching (Houston MLS), Nate Jaqua (Chicago Fire), Eddie Johnson (FC Dallas), Chris Rolfe (Chicago Fire), Taylor Twellman (New England Revolution), Josh Wolff (Kansas City Wizards) **: Chris Albright replaced Heydude on the world cup roster. So are there conclusions to be drawn? We can conclude that more of our core players have moved over to europe than was the case for the 2006 cycle, and I think that holds quite true for this cycle. Arena called in 30 players for the 2005 camp, only 10 made it. That is a 3rd of the camp and almost half of our world cup roster. And, that was at a time when more of our best players were plying their trade in MLS. Even still only a 3rd of the roster was called up for the world cup. So, even if we assumed a 3rd of the players in this years camp will make it, that means around 8 players. Lets see who those potential players could be then: Hamid or Johnson for the 3rd keeper spot based on potential and for the World Cup experience, Omar Gonzalez, Mix, Gatt, Zusi, Agudelo, Johnson and maybe Beckerman. That would be 8 players with the best chance in my opinion, or maybe Besler. However, a few of those players play similar positions and probably would be fighting for the exact same spot on the roster. Beckerman probably won't make it as he's losing a step at the wrong time and other guys are just better. For Gatt and Agudelo it comes down to their performance in the next year. For EJ I would say the same thing. But for people complaining about Connor Lade, get real! He is someone that Klinsmann obviously thinks has potential to continue improving, but I don't believe he is currently on the radar for a WCQ or the Brazil '14 roster.
Marshall, DeMerit, weren't that good last season. And you know the national team is always looking for player who have potential to be great not just guys who are just average. Heck, I don't even think Boswell is a great MLS center back.
One thing to add. You can see, especially with Arena's roster, that the coaches choose players they see as having potential. Arena's roster: Chad Marshall born august '84 so 20 years old, Freddy Adu, Santino Quaranta, Brad Guzan, Heath Pearce, Ricardo Clarke, Justin Mapp, Chris Rolfe, Ugo Ihemelu... all these guys were 21/22 or younger. Potential!
You're making so much wrong assumptions within such a short time that I feel the need to break them all down. We are supposedly stacked at fb and thin at cb. If by "we" you mean the "USMNT," then yeah, we're stacked at FB and thin at CB. Really? The call ups are Beita and Morrow and Connor Lade at fb. You call that stacked? And now you've shifted the goalposts. We're no longer talking about the USMNT but are now talking about the MLS player pool. Yes, the MLS player pool for CBs is much deeper than the fullback pool. But Johnson, Cherundolo, Chandler, Parkhurst, Castillo, Spector and Lichaj don't play in MLS and aren't available for this camp. Since we're playing Canada, we have to call in someone though. Now look at the list of cb's who cant get a call up to Jan camp. John, DeMerit, Hedges, Berry, and the vets you mentioned. John was called up last year but went on loan, and this year he was injured. DeMerit's old, but sure, I wouldn't have minded seeing him. Hedges and Berry were rookies, they'll get chances in the future if they deserve it. Most of the other vets aren't worth much consideration. We are swimming in cb's... Ok, we do have a lot of decent MLS CBs, but the question is whether any are ready to step up to be national team starters. ...and Klinsi doesnt call any.... He doesn't call any? Gee, I must have missed the part where he called in Gonzalez and Besler, the last two MLS defenders of the year, and Parke. ...because he wants to play world class fb Cameron at cb... Alright, I hate the silly debates about what constitutes "world class" so I won't even bother with that. But seriously, you'd play Cameron at RB? He still has more club experience in his career at CB than RB, and it's a much bigger position of need for the team at the moment. ...and, I guess, fly into Brazil with Connor Lade at fb. Yeah, I think I already debunked that by listing 7 other guys, plus MLS guys Beitashour and Morrow, that I think would be way ahead of Lade on our World Cup roster.
"But Johnson, Cherundolo, Chandler, Parkhurst, Castillo, Spector and Lichaj don't play in MLS and aren't available for this camp. Since we're playing Canada, we have to call in someone though" The above two lines were all that was needed in reply to my post. If the rest make you feel smart, then fine, everybody has his reason for posting on bs but obviously they are irrelevant. You admit the mls guys at fb are not in the picture, let's look at your Euros Johnson - he is on my roster Cherundolo - his replacement is at issue Parkhurst, Castillo, Spector, Lichaj, not as good as Cameron Debate over.
You left off Chandler. Like Cameron, he plays RB in a top league. I see him as the frontrunner to replace Cherundolo. I'm not inherently opposed to the idea of Cameron at RB, mind you. What I am opposed to is taking Cameron out of CB when we don't have tested options to replace him. If you want to fault Klinsmann for not testing more options sooner, fair enough. But the fact remains that Cameron is the only guy under 30 that has shown well at CB for more than a couple caps. With the hex on the horizon, that is where he should be. If in the future we have a couple CBs emerge from Gonzalez/Besler/John/Hedges, and they prove to be equally or better up to the task than Cameron, then it would be reasonable to talk about playing Cameron at RB.
Oh, I'm ok with our squad being older provided that we have adequately reliable depth. Asking a bunch of 31+ year-olds to chase the game for 90+ minutes 3, 4, 5 tournament games in a row is definitely asking for trouble. There is no doubt that we are going to need a number of our younger players to step up and prove their quality. I'm not too worried, however, whether or not all that many of them displace the vets in front of them, as long as they're strong enough to start an important game when called upon. The only two players whose ages really scare me are Bocanegra and Cherundolo. And to be honest, I thought that Cherundolo would've reached his expiration date about 2-3 years ago, and then he went and had a strong World Cup and a good Gold Cup and a good WCQ semifinal round and is still an important player to Hanover...
Our main squad is too old at the moment. Centerbacks gunning for Boca, Goodson's place need to step up.
I think you will see that from Omar and Besler in the upcoming months. I think the old guys(Bocanegra and Goodson) are going to fighting for at best the #4 CB spot in a few months. I just don't see how these guys can maintain their spots. Omar and Besler are playing better soccer in better league's for better teams right now. Plus they are younger.
I haven't been by this thread in a while, so forgive me......... I think the world of Bobby Boswell as a soccer player. HOWEVER, while he may undoubtedly be a better CB than some of the guys listed, he is not an international caliber CB. He's too slow. He's fantastic in the air and very soccer smart, but he is not fast enough to play at the international level. To be quite frank, from a foot speed perspective, he is barely fast enough for MLS. He is practically required to partner with faster/quicker CB's (Geoff Cameron and Jermaine Taylor) to cover up his deficiency in foot speed. I look at it like this though, Klinsmann sole job is not to win qualifying. It's to win qualifying and at the same time prepare the US for the World Cup. So while Boswell might be better today and if we had a one-off game you could partner Boswell and Cameron and the US central defense would be ok. However, when you call in Berry or John or Gonzalez, you are calling them in so when they get more polished and experienced they are ready to go and aren't getting their first caps. It's Camp Cupcake for a reason. Let some of the young promising guys get experience. There will be misses obviously as it is extrapolation based on guessing, but I don't believe the US CB depth pool every being so bad we need Bobby Boswell anytime soon.
Calm down. Yes, we are loaded at FB. Just not in MLS. Dolo (Hannover), Johnson (Hoffenheim), Chandler (Nuremburg), Parkhurst (Augsburg). That's five guys in the Bundesliga. Throw in the LB/WB for the Mexican Champs (Castillo), Spector. And the fact that Cameron can play FB. As can Danny Williams. And we haven't even mentioned Lichaj. The MLS guys are battling for the #11 FB spot. Heck, some of our MF guys like Torres and Beasley, and even Shea can also play back there. I always thought Robbie Rogers was a much better FB than a MF, though it has only been tried out of desperation. The reason JK likes Edu and Cameron types is because they can pass the ball. It's why Fiscal got early looks. It's why Ream got early looks.
Would throw in John Anthony Brooks too. He'll get a full season in the 1.Bundesliga before the WC, barring some epic collapse by Hertha and not getting promoted. Which in that case he'd probably be sold to a BL1 team anyways.
In this camp I wouldnt write Morrow or Beitashour off. Not saying they should be ahead of the guys you listed, just that both are young and have some great qualities that could translate them to a higher level.