Other than possibly Leonard, which player are you thinking of when you give credit to Nicol for their "development"? Yes he's given chances to a number of players who have done well for themselves, but I haven't seen dramatic improvements in the level of play, technical, or tactical ability of of any Rev players, young or old, under Nicol (perhaps Dempsey's learning a new position counts as one). Indeed, I think Nicol's failure to forge decent defenders from Kante or Downing has been discouraging. It seems to me that Nicol can recognize talent that will fit in his system, discards players who don't, but he hasn't shown himself to be the great "teacher" we expected, not by a long shot.
Lets remember that you need to have players that are teachable Seriously though, we haven't had a lot of raw talent for him to work with. With the advent of a Reserve team system and an increase in the number of DV slots and TI's we may get a better chance to make a determination about his ability to develope players. If I'm not mistaken most of the coaches MLS had had who played as Euro pros have not been either gifted or interested in developing talent. They come from a world where you are expected to be rather advanced--before--you make it to the top flight. Unfortunately USA College soccer doesn't really do a good job of player developement so a lot of "potentially good players" are drafted who. if they had been a more sophisticated developmental system would either have improved and been ready to play at the top level or who have been advised to play out their careers in the PDL. If that were true we would present SN et al with players ready--and able-- to learn his system rather than players he needs to develope before trhey are ready to fit into his system.
I disagree with this. I think both Kante and Downing had enough talent to develop into MLS level defenders, but didn't. I look at Jay Heaps who has lots of talent, but makes the same mistakes year after year. Or Noonan and Twellman, whose games have not advanced while with the Revs. Or Joseph whose play likewise hasn't greatly progressed. I'm not sure other teams do better, but to consider Nicol as a master developer of talent seems a reach to me. Alot will need to change if their reserve team is going to be anything more than a three month screening camp for college players.
I'm not sure where that claim has been made on this Board. Can you document that has been a significant belief here, not just an individual or two?
Nicol didn't draft Downing or Kante. He's not a miracle worker. He signed Leonard, the only rookie defender in the Nicol era. I guess you'd have to say he's 1 for 1 with his guys. He got what he needed out of Kante, Downing was a bust from the start. He turned Joey into a more relaxed player allowing him to elevate his game. He's gotten the most out of his players and the records speak for itself. Look who he drafted in the first round the past two years. Noonan and Dempsey. Noonan finished second in RoTY balloting and co-won the Budweiser Scoring title this past season. Dempsey won RoTY this year. Whatever he is doing it obviously working and I think you are foolish to doubt him. When are you going to be satisfied? I understand the Revs had a horrible season except for the end but looking at the scenarios the Revs were placed in you can't blame coaches for that. When Nicol finally got his team back in midsummer Twellman goes down with a hamstring injury. Now if that didn't happen who know, we could be MLS Champs. Now before you post about the horrible starts the Revs had in the Nicol era, let me ask you this. Which would you rather have, a good start or a good finish? I don't think I need to answer that question. Is it possible to have both, somewhat. Is it possible to have both with a team like the Revs, hardly, due to lack of depth, but that can be blamed on the league. You can't develop a great team with great depth with a salary cap as low as the MLS has. DC had a low point in the beginning of the season. They picked it up midseason and finished strong. Same with Columbus. Columbus in the beginning of the year was as bad as a D3 high school team. You don't remember that part of the season, only the unbeaten streak. So idiotwind, I realize you love to focus upon the negatives of everything to do with the Revs but love to disregard the reasoning behind them. Come draft day, when Nicol makes his next brilliant pick, don't doubt him. He doesn't deserve to be doubted. He should have earned respect by now. Three Eastern Conference Finals in a row, not bad for a team that is the worse in MLS history. Two MLS All-Stars picked from the Superdraft in consective years, no other team can say that (and don't even throw DC in my face because Freddy is not an All-Star). Nicol deserves respect, he has truly earned it.
If the Revs acquire James Twellman, you might want to change your name to the New England St. Louisians. Won't that be like 6 players on the roster from St. Louis? Nuts.
Nicol is a decent coach but he is the wrong person for this franchise, at this time, in this league. I'll be satisfied when the team plays consistent entertaining soccer. The Revs under Nicol have not been consistent. They have rarely been entertaining. Attendance is shriveling, even their owner has lost interest. I consider franchise health a better indication of success than playoff records. Consider Miami and Tampa and KC if you disagree. We need major change, and soon.
Again, another case of where you are not looking at the reasoning behind these scenarios. Miami and TB were league owned teams. KC has an owner who owns two other teams. Kraft owns one team in MLS. I don't see how replacing Nicol is going to turn this franchise around. Nicol is the man, he'll be the man for awhile, until he is consistanly bad. Like it or not but that's the case.
Yeah, you're right (although not about Miami).....I should be happy with Nicol. He's made it alot easier to get out of the parking lot after a game. Makes sense, trust Bob Kraft, accept the franchise's decline, and keep the faith. Don't worry, be happy. I think I'll patent that line and start selling singing fish! Thanks.
Just curious, when we went to the MLS Cup in his first season as coach, were you one of those singing his praises, pushing for him to be named coach of the year, or were you criticizing him then as now? Just wondering if he lost his coaching brain, or just never had one.
I'm suprised you'd ask. I've been skeptical of Nicol since day one (I liked AW and Nicol signed off on trading him, he also seemed blind to the havoc playing Rooney created), unhappy with him from year two (running Hernandez out of the team felt good but hurt us), and very disillusioned since year three (poor preseason preparation and continued defensive incompetence). I've no qualms about his coaching ability, professionalism, or attitude. I recognize injuries and roster limits have hampered his effectiveness. I'm also convinced he has the right formula for on field success in the current MLS structure. I believe, however, that the way he wants his team to play....a fast paced english style with quick direct ball movement.......is not conducive to the talent level he has available to him and breaks down too often to make entertaining viewing (even though it works well enough to generate 5-6 good scoring chances per game which in turn is enough to win 50% of the time). I think people are reluctant to pay to watch unattractive, inconsistent soccer in a sterile setting and I'm skeptical that Nicol (or Bob Kraft for that matter) is the man to change this trend. Certainly I may well be proven wrong, and I hope I am, but that will be apparent in attendance figures, not the sappy "Steve is Swell" crap that gets propagated around here. Thanks again for asking.
draft pick or not, james twellman will make an impact...from what people say, hes very teachable and has great potential.... i think this could turn out to be a big deal
To be fair you have to look at it from his perspective and what these players meant to the team on the field and in the locker room. Williams has been with 6 MLS teams. I don't know why he's been with half the teams in MLS. He's a deadly player in the midfield so why can't he hold a spot on a team for more then a year. Danny was unhappy with the Revs just as much as Steve was unhappy with Danny. Danny had a attitude problem and wanted out so he "could get more exposure and make the US or Mexican National Team." A great player but another head case. Revs were better off, especially since they picked up an allocation. The only logical explanation that I can think up for Rooney is that he had to use what he had and whatever worked best for the team at that time. Just wondering, where you a big FC fan?
Rooney played pretty well in the beginning, and then for some reason, pretty suddenly lost it (undisclosed injury?) and went down hill faster than anyone I've ever seen (including Harkes!). Nicol did stick with him for a looong time, that's true, although he probably believed, like I did, that Rooney would return to form. Never happened. I think that's a result of tailoring the style to the talent - we have had backs, who are subpar at controlling the ball, protecting it and distributing it. To try and play a possession game with them is dangerous - as we've seen. Most of the time Nicol's team has played flowing, entertaining soccer - after all, they led the league in scoring in 2002 and 2003, I believe, and that wasn't from playing "direct" and it wasn't all Twellman - our midfielders scored a LOT. And if Joseph and Cancela had ANY shooting ability at all, they'd have scored a LOT more. And, you're welcome.
Twellman will get by on his name just like alot of other american players do. unreal! to say there are not better players in college is absurd, but the mls will back him and so will a club. if the mls wants to make its league a stronger one... draft players and play players based on their talent... not who their parents are, not what school they played at, and certainly not who their brothers are. -keep up the good work taylor... soon enough you will be in europe
Yeah, like Eskandarian. I'd hate to have that slacker on my team. He just gets by because his father played in the NASL. And Joe-Max Moore. God, that slob was never any good. Having famous parents doesn't have anything to do with your skills.
There is a big difference here... eskadarian and joe max can play. i am talking about all the players who have managed to get trials and opportunities and college scholarships based on PR rather than talent. James Twellman is one of these cases. i have friends who have seen him play and the overall opinion of him is not that great. he is just a mediocre college player, but b/ of who his brother is; he will be given a shot; and i think that i wrong! -that is all
i would have no problems if Nicol wasted a late round pick on James. If he is good enough to make the team then Coach will offer a contract otherwise he is practice fodder. If he is a step faster than any of the current Revs defenders and has any skill then he may have a chance to make it. I mean look at the competition...Heaps, Franchino, Llamosa, Marshall, John......not exactly the cream of the crop
And these friends are professional soccer scouts ? Remember - James has some of the same things going for him that have allowed many others before him to have long careers in professional soccer... 1) He's lefty 2) He can defend 3) He can attack out of the back Based on his pedigree, you can bet he is a "professional" through and through. This trait (or series of traits) is what separates the "names" who are just PR hype from the ones who will make it. I doubt he will get drafted in this years' truncated draft. Look for him to walk onto a team that needs a player with the skills listed above. The Revs are on this list of teams.
I have to think back to one person's comment, many years ago, "the Revs drafted the wrong Beasley." I'm not a big Demarcus fand but do believe that comment was true