Jaime on Hudson

I disagree with your swipe at Moreno but everyone has their opinion of Jaime's attitude.

As for the article, it basically confirms what we already knew, the trade rumors on Bigsoccer.com and other news sources pre-dated any formal discussions with the player. This doesn't come as a major surprise because if the trade had fallen through, do you really want one of your top players to know that you tried to trade him? So DC didn't talk to Moreno during the initial talks but someone leaked the news so he got wind of it. Reminds me of the situation with Goose and Llamosa, where DC withheld the information from the players because they didn't want to distract them during a USA game. Seems like a lot of deals are done this way in MLS because of the trade system.

 

Moreno's situation was nothing at all like what happened to Goos and Llamosa. Any rumors here on BS or anywhere else regarding a Jaime trade existed because of all that was said by Hudson and others for a couple of months the end of the season. If he was suprised then he did (does) have his head up his ass, particularly in light of the Bob Wagman article that came out right after the trade. I guess Moreno never did catch onto the fact that United was no longer a country club for him, that he needed to prove himself. Sounds like he still doesn't get it. Idiot. I just hope the current United players get wind of this article and remember it when we play the metros.

Chuck and Jeff were traded by Bill Payne, who had a track record of deceiving players, fans, and reporters, on his personnel moves.

 

I'll chime in agreement with the head in his A** contingent.
I also think his motivations are still in question. I've yet to ever hear of a player being really successful because they're playing to prove someone right (Bradley) or to prove someone wrong (Hudson). That kind of motivation works for people who are already driven to succeed, but just need a little extra nudge. Not as the sole basis of their desire.

I've yet to hear any real evidence that Jaime really wants to push himself for himself and for his team.
Even Bradley remarks in the article that Moreno should be setting his sights higher. I think that's a telling quote. I'll be genuinely shocked if he ends up being more successful with NY then Earnie will be for DC. If he even gets that close.

Still, this does make the rivarly that much more interesting.

 

[Obiwan]Resist the Dark Side, Jaime.[/Obiwan]

dadman

 

Ray Hudson:

"It was a cruel trade and a cruel blow, but it was brought about by the pressures placed on teams in MLS.

"I fully understand Jaime having some unease about being moved from his club because this was his club for a very long time," Hudson added. "It's a tough business sometimes."
--------------
I wish Jaime luck. As a fan, I appreciate his efforts for United. As K pointed out, a change of scenery will do him good. They didn't make the playoffs the last three years when Moreno and Pope were here so it was time to change the parts.

I like the moves United has made this offseason and hopefully this playoff drought will end.

Bill

 

I find this part of the article more interesting. "It was Bradley who pushed hard for Moreno when the Metros and D.C. began trade talks last fall. Rather than use two player allocations to bring in new foreign players, Bradley traded an allocation banking on the forward he already knew could play in Major League Soccer." If true that means that we were not having to bend the Metros arms in order to ge them to take Jaimie, as some have said. It sounds to me as if Jaime for the allocation could have been done. So then it would seem that the inclusion of Petke was what drew Pope into the mix.

 

That quote is by the writer, not Bradley. We only know what the writer thinks about what Bradley said and when he said it. I don't doubt Bob was interested in Jaime back then, but too many direct quotes from Hudson and Kasper make it seem pretty clear that Eddie had to be part of the deal.
It could very well be that Bradley's simply exaggerating that early interest now in order to help Jaime with his motivation, or the alleged comments may have been interpreted totally out of context. IMO it's not enough to assume the deal could have been made without Pope.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the least to think that Hudson and Kaspar wanted to get rid of Pope. He is a max salary defender, misses much of the season due to National Team and injury. Plus he is quiet, which means he cannot be the organizer in the back.

All in all everything that gets published from Hudson, I take with a giant grain of salt. I've heard too much babble and seen too much contradictory action to believe much of what he says... Even the quotes in the article about Jaime are quite different from other articles such as the Wagman, which basically stated that Moreno was on Hudson's bad side and was gone since August. This was not a "...cruel blow...brought about by pressures...in MLS", this was Hudson firing a player he believed was lazy and unmotivated.

 

Have whatever opinion you want of Hudson (honest, deceiver, somewhere in-between). But what about Steve Goff? Prior to the trade going through, he indicated that the SoS were pushing for Pope, that it might not happen if Pope wasn't in the deal it might not happen. He got quotes or comments from Bradley and SoS officials.

Plus, even prior to this deal, there were reports (I believe Goff, plus MLS Confidential) that DCU had shopped Moreno to every team in the league. That wasn't trying to dump Pope. That was Moreno straight up. And the idea that this was an attempt to acquire Petke misses the point that originally the deal was for Jolley, not Petke.

The writer of the original article has an angle to push (that Moreno ain't chopped liver, has a real upside, was really coveted by the SoS). How would it read (heck, it wouldn't even get printed) if it said: Moreno was offered to every team in the league with no takers. Then, SoS wanted Pope and took Moreno as part of the deal.

I think Jaime and Hudson didn't get along. Hudson called in his "ring men" (guys with championship rings) in the last third of the season and told them "this is when I need you to be heroes." Clearly those two (Hudson and Moreno) needed to part company.

And totally separate from that, remember....3 years, no playoffs, bottom team in the league. To get better we need cap room. Renouncing only 1 max salary player won't do it (b/c of cap increases for other guys--Quaranta, Rimando, etc.). You can argue for Etcheverry as a candidate but we had to release at least 2 maximum salary players.

 

Trading Pope because he's quiet? Then why did we replace him with a Bulgarian who speaks no English?

 

Given Jaime's years and championships with United and his rightly lofty place in the history of the club, I'm glad Hudson put it in a more diplomatic manner than saying "the guy doesn't play hurt, he doesn't stay in shape, and he hasn't been worth half his salary -- now maybe it's just that he won't play for me, but I'm not leaving, so he had to."

Or, maybe it's more-or-less true... if we were Manchester United, not DC United, we could afford to keep an expensive-but-injured former great on the bench in the hope that he rebounds to form, but we aren't -- and if you want to bring in new expensive players (which we clearly needed to do), you have to get rid of old expensive players. That's MLS.

 

Maybe he speaks loud Bulgarian!!

 

Because he has a tatoo on his tongue...why else?!

 

I beleive both sources (Goff and MLS-Conf.) reported that Moreno was being shopped around and their were a few teams interested. (Both reports, I believe predicted NY/NJ would get Moreno.) You post implied that no one wanted him rather than DC compairing offers.

What I can't understand is why people say we had to get rid of Pope in order to unload Moreno. There were teams interested in Moreno, and even if there were not, we could have cut him.

We traded both players because Hudson liked the deal for Moreno & Pope better than what was offered for just Moreno or just Pope.

I don't agree with his decision and I think we would have been better off cutting Etcheverry and only trading one of the two.

What's done is done. Moreno was shopped around. If DC lied to him, I understand why he is upset. If DC didn't lie, but still traded him without notifying him first, that's unfortunate but part of the business.

 

Let's be fair here. Jaime probably should have not played in a single game last season. He was too injured to do the team or himself any good and it showed. I remember after one game either Hudson or Jaime saying that he was afraid to shoot the ball because of the pain it caused, yet he still played. Playing injured is one of the worst, confidence sapping things a player can, especially when they can't or don't perform due in part to the injury. I know lots of athletes play "injured", but it is rare for them to perform at or above their usual capabilities. I blame Jaime and Hudson for this. jaime should have come straight out and said he couldn't play and help the team. Hudson should have realized that Jaime couldn't help the team in the state he was in and sat his butt and let him heal. By the time this happened jaime was basically out the door due his performances, but he had healed enough to show up everyone at the US nats camp in November. I think his whole situation was poorly handled by everyone involved including Guter and management.

 

Never said it was Bradley's quote. Just showing it as a direct quote from the article.

I still say trade Jaime for the allocation. Don't resign Etch and we are in the same spot as now. Except then instead of Stokes we have Pope. I'm one of the few who are willing to pay max salary for a defender. Also I still am not a supporter of Petke, skill wise. While I have not seen Stokes yet I think United loses out, skill wise, in the Petke and Stokes for Pope exchange.

I do, however believe that it took very little arm twisting to have Pope thrown into the deal, despite what Ray has said publicly. Ray never seemed to have a problem with Pope's play or intensity level but I believe he saw the number of man games lost to injury and Nats Call-Ups as a big down side.

I don't buy the argument that Bradley is just saying the right things in order motivate Jaime. Bradley has Bruce's ear and likely got a glowing report after the US/ES preparations workout that Jaime had. I think that Bradley thinks that he got as steal. I bet he feel that he can motivate Jaime to his 96-99 levels. Now I don't think that is the case. I for one enjoyed Jaime's time with United but I am not sad to see him gone either. I think that as K and many others have suggested, Jaime had given up here.

 

I hate to see Jamie go, but as I recall there were hints being droped by Hudson since the half season point. I wish the guy all the luck (except against us).

 

I wouldn't take it that way. Galarcep is a definite homer and shows it in pretty much every article I've ever read by him. Look at his tone in this very article...he went out of his way to paint DC and Hudson as evil and Moreno, who the metros need to have a good season, as the victim. All previous accounts were that Moreno stopped caring...what are the odds that all of those reports were wrong and this new one is magically correct?

Exactly. Goff has much more credibility in my opinion than Galarcep ever will.

 

Get a Clue Mr. Anderson

A D.C. homer having more credibility than a Metros homer. I suppose that statement shouldn't be surprising coming from a D.C. fan.

And VA is better than Maryland, so THERE.

 

Re: Re: Jaime on Hudson

There is a little misconception here though, because Goff and what he does is something totally different from Galarcep and his column. In journalism, Goff is an actual reporter in his soccer role. He digs for facts, usually related to DC because his readership is in that area (ie: he's no homer- Goff is one of the most objective guys I've read). He finds the scoop, and then passes it along in his stories.

Galarcep is a different beast altogether. He's a columnist, whose audience is predominantly Metro country. He's supposed to be a homer. If he wrote that piece for the Washington Post, it would be WAY out of place. As it is, it was an angle for a decent story out of a Metro camp with the big news still a ways away (the Spanish guy, discovery signings etc.)


The two are completely different kinds of journalists, and both are necessary in order to make sports journalism fun and interesting. With that said, now that I brown nosed a little up there, any chance of Goff getting me a sniff at the Post? I've built a pretty decent sports portfolio at the Gazette.

 

But in all fairness, why was Moreno injured all of last season? Frankly, because his perpetual lack of offseason conditioning made him fragile, he gave up on the 2001 season midway through, was extremely lazy even when he knew that Rongen was on the way out (partially because of Moreno's attitude poisoning the team against Rongen), and he refused to get treatment for his injury until almost the end of the offseason. Then, without team approval he skips off to Bolivia to see an accupuncturist, misses the start of the season, and returns in a state that sees him injured for the rest of the year. All this from a maximum salary player.

I like Moreno. I think he is emminently talented, and will be a good addition to the Metros. But, he was given more than ample opportunity, and failed miserably. He simply was not worth a max salary spot here in DC anymore. Hopefully his career will get back on track in NJ. The fact that Hudson cleared 640k of 2003 cap space and got an Allocation, the #5 pick in the draft, and a solid defender for Pope, Moreno and Williams is a very good deal.

Look, right or wrong tons of players have conflicts with coaches, and almost every player has one with a coach that trades him. So the hard feelings are to be expected. IMHO, Moreno didn't trash Hudson, Galarcep just played up what Moreno did say to make the fans side with Moreno. I don't have a problem with any of that. But the idea that Moreno's performance last year wasn't his fault, I do not agree with that one.

-Tron

 

I think D-tron summarizes this well. Look, Jaimes problems were more than just injuries. It is obvious that from his initial time in MLS, b/c of his close control, skill with the ball, and the level the league started out with, he was going to get hacked. And he has been--being among the most fouled players in MLS every year until last year. He has gotten increasingly frustrated at his lot in life with MLS. That isn't a slam at MLS, just that sometimes a change is good. And yes, he's been hurt a lot the past 2 years. And yes, his finishing (which was always inconsistent even in his best years) deserted him last year. And yes, Hudson (despite being diplomatic in the article) has to felt that Moreno is not the guy he wants watching his back in a dark alley or a knife fight. And yes, Moreno has gotten older and the league has gotten better. And a national team desperate for talent hasn't called up Jaime in 3 years now.

And all of that would be irrelevant to me (or if not irrelevant, not very relevant)but for the most glaring issue: in MLS, any player you pay maximum salary for needs to be a huge producer for your team. He needs to make a difference in a lot of games. And the past 2 years, Moreno has not been that player. If we were a rich team, we'd keep him on sentiment. But we're the equivalent of a poor team in a smaller European league--we can only afford a few rich players and can only keep them if they produce. That isn't a problem unique to MLS, it's a problem that all but the Premier, La Liga, Serie-A, Bundesliga teams face.