Decided I will write about rivalry between J-League clubs so My questions would be the following. 1. Which clubs are rivals? 2. How are the derbies between those clubs called? 3. Does this rivalry effects the trade of the players between the clubs, meaning that clubs avoid them and that fans take grudge? Thank you in advance
Thanks. The only question this leaves me with is, does the rivalry effects trade between certain clubs, like Jubilo and Shimizu for instance
For the people who can't read Japanese: National Derbies: Verdy Kawasaki x Yokohama Marinos / Kashima Antlers x Júbilo Iwata (the biggest rivalries at the first years of the league) Saitama Derby: Urawa Reds x Omiya Ardija Yokohama Derby: Yokohama F.Marinos x Yokohama FC Ibaraki Derby: Kashima Antlers x Mito HollyHock Chiba Derby: JEF United x Kashiwa Reysol Tokyo Derby: FC Tokyo x Tokyo Verdy x Machida Zelvia Kanagawa Derby: Kawasaki Frontale x Yokohama F.Marinos / Shonan Bellmare x Yokohama FC Shizuoka Derby: Júbilo Iwata x Shimizu S-Pulse Osaka Derby: Gamba Osaka x Cerezo Osaka Fukuoka Derby: Avispa Fukuoka x Giravanz Kitakyushu Tohoku Derby: Vegalta Sendai x Montedio Yamagata North Kanto Derby: Mito HollyHock x Tochigi SC x Thespa Kusatsu Tamagawa Derby: FC Tokyo x Kawasaki Frontale Tokai Derby: Shimizu/Júbilo x Nagoya/Gifu Nagi Derby: Nagoya Grampus x FC Gifu Hokuriku Deby: Albirex Niigata x Kataller Toyama Kansai Derby: Kyoto x Gamba / Cerezo x Kobe Keihan Derby: Kyoto x Gamba/Cerezo Hanshin Derby: Kobe x Gamba/Cerezo Chugoku Derby: Gainare Tottori x Fagiano Okayama x Sanfrecce Hiroshima Shikoku Derby: Tokushima Vortis x Ehime FC Kyushu Derby: Avispa Fukuoka/Giravanz Kitakyushu x Oita Trinita / Roasso Kumamoto / Sagan Tosu
Yeah I ll just share what I have found and somebody may chip in or add something if they feel like or can. I was really surprised about this I went digging about the derbies and made a list similar to that one Gunner posted than upon a question about why there is a Kawasaki vs F.C. Tokyo derby instead of for instance Yokohama F.Marinos vs Tokyo, I stumbled upon this... Well most of you I am sure know this very well, but some might not and I ll write it down never the less. Kawasaki has rivalry with both Tokyo clubs. Tokyo Verdy as well as F.C. Tokyo. While Tokyo Verdy one comes from when Kawasaki Verdy moved to Tokyo and some of its fans left to rather cheer for Frontale than new founded Tokyo Verdy, the F.C. Tokyo one is quite something else. It originates from the fact that the two clubs were always rivals on league table finishing on similar places all across 90ies first in JSL than in JFL and in the end in J2 1991 JSL - F.C. Tokyo # 7 Frontale # 5 1992 Prejšni JFL - F.C. Tokyo# 7 Frontale # 5 1992 Prejšna JFL - F.C. Tokyo# 7 Frontale # 6 1993 Prejšna JFL - F.C. Tokyo# 10 Frontale # 6 1994 JFL - F.C. Tokyo # 7 Frontale # 10 1995 JFL - F.C. Tokyo # 3 Frontale # 12 1996 JFL- F.C. Tokyo # 3 Frontale # 10 1997 JFL- F.C. Tokyo # 2 Frontale # 3 1998 JFL- F.C. Tokyo # 1 Frontale # 2 1999 J2 - F.C. Tokyo # 2 Frontale # 1 However it become something even more. There were various flame wars going on as well. Like for instance in 2006 when before the Derby F.C. Tokyo posted posters all along the train line which connects Kawasaki to Tokyo ( It read something like this: Kawasaki Under the consent) To which Kawasaki replied on their official page with: There is nothing except winning feeling? It went further as media hyped the entire thing and named it the Battle over river Tama (it is the river which separates Tokyo and Kawasaki) So they made a television ADD in which the Dolphin (mascot of Frontale) and Tanuki (mascot of F.C. Tokyo) would battle eachother for the dominance Anyway take a look at this in it are the two different adds one made for Kawasaki - is the one where Dolphin wins and the other one when Tanuki wins is made for F.C. Tokyo Also the song for the add was made specifivally for the Tama Clasico as the entire thing is called [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gjjds-r17I&feature=player_embedded"]????????PV - YouTube[/ame] Anyway if someone has something of similar to share it would really be awsome. I was really glad to find the above and enjoyed it fully and I have no doubts that at least for Osaka or Shizuoka derby there must be similar things going on
You've kinda translated some of it awkwardly but yes, the Tamagawa Clasico is one of the biggest promotions of the year for both FCT and Kawasaki. The clubs work together to cross-promote and the fans even gather for projects like cleaning up trash in local parks near the stadium and that sort of thing. The YouTube clip you posted is from 2010, I believe... the highlight of the Clasico was of course the Nabisco Cup final in 2009. Also I would hesitate to include Machida in the Tokyo Derby but only because we've never played them =P I imagine they'll come up with other names for Machida-Verdy and Machida-FCT matchups because it seems like including Machida in the Tokyo Derby cheapens it.
This pretty much encapsulates what has made the Tamagawa Classico such a great rivalry. It is intense and emotional, and yet there is a sense of mutual respect and sportsmanship that allows both teams to lose and still restrain the urge to jump off the bridge at Shin-Maruko on the way home. But another point that both of you failed to mention is the fact that - despite being located in different prefectures - the two are the closest neighbours of any teams in Japan. The teams' respective home stadiums are actually within walking distance of one another! (well . . . its 16km or about a 2-hour hike, but Ive walked a good portion of it myself along the Kawasaki Kaido, on the Kawasaki side of the river, and it certainly is conceivable). No other rivalry in the J.League can even approach that sort of physical proximity. By comparison, even Banpaku and Kincho stadiums are too far apart to even think about getting to without a lengthy ride on public transportation, and they dont really compete for fans in the same neighborhoods. There are cases of teams that share stadiums (Tokyo and Verdy; Reds and Ardija), but no similar case of teams with separate "homes" that are such close neighbors. Add in factors such as Verdy's move from Kawasaki (their original home stadium was Todoroki) to Tokyo, giving them a common "evil empire" to hate, and it isnt hard to see why they are such fierce yet "respectful" rivals. The addition of Machida, which will be almost equally distant from the other two, promises to create some really interesting rivalry patterns in the suburban neighborhoods of western Tokyo.
I've never noticed that because from central Tokyo, Todoroki is as much a pain in the ass to get to as Ajinomoto =P But you are right. I'm honestly not sure how much the shared hate for Verdy is a factor these days... The only problem is that any speculation on rivalries completely depends on getting everyone in the same division. All of the Kyushu teams in J2 have a nice little thing going on w/ their Derby, but that's because they could form their own league at this point. I think that Verdy and Machida will establish a rivalry well before FC Tokyo or Kawasaki Frontale enter the fray.
Incidentally, there are a number of rivalries in the J.League of a more historical sort, or based on some past history of conflict between the clubs. These often are far more intense and lasting grudges than the rivalries over local "derby" status. For example, despite the fact that theyve been playing Saitama Derbies in the J1 for the past 7 years (Ardija was first promoted in 2005), Reds and Arjija are only now starting to develop a sense of rivalry that can even approach the antagonism between Reds and Gamba, or the even more hostile Reds-Antlers rivalry. Similarly, even now that Reysol has won a J1 title and can banish any feelings of past shame, Im pretty sure that the fans still view a win over Ventforet as more meaningful than any other team, and vice-versa. Heres a general list of some other team relationships: Major "Historical Grudges" Reds-Antlers Reds-Gamba Marinos-Reds Grampus-Reysol Sanfrecce-Reds Gamba-Antlers Verdy-Frontale Marinos-Grampus Reysol-Ventforet JEF-Verdy "Sibling" relations Antlers-Montedio (formerly there was a stronger Antlers-Vegalta relationship and this may resume now that Montedio was demoted, but Kashima often farms out young players to Yamagata and the teams have close ties) Ventforet-S-Pulse At one time the SPulse managing company even held shares in Ventforet, and the relationship remains close as the recent exchanges of personnel in both directions should indicate Marinos-Frontale Despite being local derby rivals, they have a long history of exchanging personnel, and management relations are quite friendly even if the fan groups are a bit less friendly with one another Gamba-Vissel Hasnt been as strong in recent years, but at one time Vissel received much of its competitiveness from the contributions of players who moved their after careers at one of the Osaka clubs, expecially Gamba. Sanfrecce-Ehime and Sanfrecce-Vortis In the mid 00s half of Ehime's team seemed to be a former Sanfrecce or Sanfrecce Youth player. Nowadays Vortis is starting to benefit from player exchanges as well, though in terms of the friendly ties between management, Hiroshima and Ehime are still closer "siblings" Other "Derbies" not mentioned previously Tokai Derby (Grampus and Jubilo) Michinoku Derby (Vegalta and Montedio) Mt Fuji Derby (SPulse and Ventforet) Kawanakajima Derby (Ventforet and Albirex, celebrates a famous battle between Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin) Orange Derby (S-Pulse, Ardija and Albirex) Ken-ken Derby (Ventforet and JEF - refers to the fact that the respective mascots are Japan's two most famous dog breeds)
Has there ever been played an Ibaraki Derby game between Mito and Kashima, a Chugoku derby game between either Okayama and Tottori vs Hiroshima or a Hokuriku derby game between Niigata and Toyama? I think you are missing an important one. The battle of Kawanakajima between Niigata and Kofu reenacting the bloody battle of Kawanakajima between the Takeda clan from Kofu and Uesugi clan from the Niigata region, some of the matches played near the old battlefield in Alwin. This offcourse sets a new perspective because Matsumoto was promoted for the 2012 season. Since the Kofu and Niigata uses a 500 year old regional rivalry between clans to heaten the match up, I would not be surprised that Matsumoto would make a similar trick since Matsumoto and the Shinshu was ruled by the Ogasawara clan kicked out by the Takedas of Kofu. This put in mind that Matsumoto fans have already beaten Niigata in this years cup and the Matsumoto fans has took down to provoke Kofu for some of their relegation battles too. I am looking forward to the day when Nagano and Kanazawa again are playing in same division as Matsumoto and Toyama some rivalry in the region there would come. Also though still not a J-League rivalry it seems like theres a rivalry between Machida Zelvia and SC Sagamihara been building up. Zelvia has quite some fans in Sagamihara city and it seems the fans of zelvia coming from Machida City has been provoking there own fans from Sagamihara to move there fandom to SC Sagamihara saying support your own club on boards around.
Mito and Kashima play a preseason game every year, I believe. As far as "antagonism derbies" go, FC Tokyo and Urawa Reds supporters don't like each other at all. Then again, I guess nobody likes Urawa supporters Also, there's the Tokkaido Derby between FC Tokyo and Shimizu S-Pulse, which is totally my own invention and happened because from '08 through '10 we played each other at least 4 times per year. Name comes from the bullet train supporters take to go to away matches...
The listing of a Fukuoka Derby between Avispa and Giravanz, while geographically correct isn't something I would consider a real derby. It might change if Giravanz ever take any points off us, but at the moment we've only played twice and it was more sympathetic than competitive. Similarly I don't think the "Kyushu derby" of Avispa against Kumamoto or Oita is particularly different from any other game. Avispa vs Tosu is the real derby for us where things start getting a bit tasty.
I think that exactly sums the situation up. Seen from logical knowledge theres as many derbies and rivalries in Japan as any places, but since J-League is only 20 years old and and even until this year the League has admitted new clubs, many of the rivalries probably wont become real rivalries before in 20 years time.
We don't share stadiums with Urawa.....that stopped last year after the attendance scandal and even when we did, it was only one or two games at Saitama Stadium....Verdy and FC Tokyo were completely unique in terms of having the same ground.
Actually what about Marinos and Yokohama FC? I believe Marinos still plays a couple of games a season at Mitsuzawa Stadium. btw Koshigaya, what was the reason behind Omiya giving too high attendances? What was the result and outcome of this scandal? We had a similar issue with one of the clubs in Denmark too. It is interesting because it seems that in england its a unofficial system to give too low attendance numbers to avoid taxes.
They wanted to make it seem as the poor financial condition of a club and with it attendances went up. JFA found out that the numbers are crooked and that they count not only the actual fans but the staff and volunteers which help to prepare matches. They were facing points deduction, there was obsiously a black stain over the team as well, but in the end they somehow managed to shook it off with President of the club resigning as a result of all that has happened. Well I hope I got it right, this is at least what I have wrote in the history of the club in my thread about J-League. Hope it helps
Just my personal opinion, but the rivalry between Marinos X Reds is up there with the Kanagawa one, based on a few factors, on the field, maybe off the field depending on who is asked I reckon.
From what I've heard, there was pressure from the league to show growth so the team would count guests, vendors, staff, and other non-customers in their attendance figures. Watanabe made an assertion that other teams were doing similar tricks but had no proof so the J League came down harder on the team. I'm kind of sympathetic to Watanabe's argument, having seen some of the attendance at other stadiums and their published numbers but we got caught. It was just a dumb thing to do.....maybe it was for the benifit of sponsor sales but it seemed really unneccessary. the fine was a pretty fair punishment.
You have to get off at Shizuoka and transfer to the Tokkaido Honsen. Alternatively you can just take the local Tokkaido Line trains all the way there, as me and a friend once did.
The whole definition here is vague and I guess my comment was a bit misleading. I was just trying to concede the point that Ajinomoto and Todoroki are only "the closest proximity in Japan" if you ignore cases where teams sometimes use the same stadium (and thats an objection someone was bound to make; in fact someone else took it further in noting that the Marinos sometimes play at Mitsuzawa). I was addressing Blue's curiosity about the Tamagawa Classico, and trying to explain that this is not just some contrived excuse for extra publicity, like the Orange Derby or the Ken-Ken Derby. It is a derby in the true sense of the word, because the teams' core supporters occupy the same broad suburban sprawl of western Tokyo and northern Kanagawa prefectures. Geographically speaking it is easily as unified and contiguous as Saitama-shi (which has three separate "city centers"), and even Yokohama-shi (which sprawls considerably, and is broken up by a number of very steep hills.) As for the question about distances in Kanagawa, I am not sure of the exact road distances from Todoroki to Nissan and from Nissan to Mitsuzawa, but I do know that the easiest way to visualise the difference is to use Google maps and tag each stadium. Todoroki to Nissan looks a LOT farther, and while Nissan and Mitsuzawa might turn out to be closer than Todoroki and Ajinomoto, you cant develop much of a rivalry if you spend only one year out of the past 12, in the same division. ----- Oh, and one more point related to Lupin's post. Matsumoto and Kofu are unlikely to base any "Koshin Derby" promotions on medieval history, because the Nakamura rulers that Takeda Shingen displaced from the area were centered in the Nagano and Ueda area, were allied with Uesugi Kenshin, and were largely viewed as unpleasant absentee landlords. Matsumoto took unification with the Takeda domains as a positive result, not a negative one (though I suspect that Nagano City dwellers might have a rather different perspective). More likely, Kofu and Matsumoto will seek to build a sense of regional unity and "friendly rivalry" along the lines of that between Vegalta and Montedio, or the Kita-Kanto teams.