I'm genuinely curious about peoples problems with AO. I've had minor issues with them at times, but overall the concept to me seems great. However, maybe I'm missing something, can anyone enlighten me?
None of my issues really are very serious. Sometimes they seem to flip back and forth, sometimes acting like the national organization has all the power, while at other times they will act like local chapters are what it should be about. Most of their benefits are aimed towards people of a higher income, and people who are over 21. Also, some members have a sort of "AO is more important even than the Nats", but I've found that to be rare. I can't imagine why someone would hate the organization as a whole, the concept is great, yet from time to time I have heard others voice their strong distaste for the whole thing.
I don't really know about national vs local issues or what benefits for higher income you are talking about. The groups obviously is focused on pre game parties and so forth which are generally 21+. I've never encountered AO is more important than the nats.
My biggest issue with AO is their supposed discounts and travel packages. When the Jamaica trip was offered last year I looked into the package, but after about one minute of travel research I figured out that I could rent a room by myself and book the entire trip to the stadium for a lot less than what they were charging. I decided to do the same calculations for other AO trips and quickly found out they were either really badly priced or a straight cash grab by the head office.
So I'm sure that I'm going to get incredibly bashed for this, but I'll be honest about my gripes. I've been a huge fan of the USMNT my entire life, and have been actively going to games and such since graduating from college in the mid aughts and actually being able to afford it. I went to the last two Azteca trips and also a recent friendly, and I feel that things have changed markedly since 2009. First of all, I'm a very seasoned world traveler, both for work and pleasure. In the '09 Azteca trip, I feel there was a much greater population of people who knew how to behave in a foreign country. Subway to the game and all. This time around, there was a much bigger population of people who seemed befuddled by the low rate of English speaking and walked around like the Narcoticos were right around the corner. The good thing about AO is that it is enabling a crowd to go that otherwise would be too intimidated to go, but the negative aspect is that the chances that an international incident will happen are much greater. One disappointing aspect to me is that the rate of fan knowledge I feel is pretty darn abysmal. I don't expect everyone to know who Mixx Diskerud is, but someone asked me who number 17 was. People kept asking me about every Mexican player that wasn't Chicharito. Giovanni Dos Santos should be well known to anyone who considers him or herself to be a USMNT fan for how many times he's burned us. At both the friendly and the Azteca, there were a number of AO members who were turned away from the pitch for 99% of the game, concentrating on singing songs. I'm all for improving the atmosphere, but at the end of the day, you're here to see a soccer game, not lead a choir. I think it's important that AO focus on team and soccer knowledge, and less about the songs. Last off, I think that some of the chants are stupid. I realize that people are just doing the best they can, but a lot of them come off as either a foreign copy or "man overcompensating for a small d" syndrome. The lesser problem is that some I feel are not authentic for us as Americans. Take for example the "score a goal" chant. It ends with, "And we'll go stupid mental." That's not an American saying. That's clearly a British saying that never caught on in America. It's like Ali G trying to pass himself off as Jamaican. The AO website lists another as "You ca'ot stop us." Are we from Merseyside? The ones I have a bigger issue with are the "USA Ain't Nothin' to F*** With" type chants. I'm 28. I throw that word around all the time. It doesn't bother me. But I know that at some point, I'm going to settle down, and have kids, and want to take them to a Nats game, but might not be able to unless I want to have the conversation about how the reason everyone is chanting the word they're not supposed to use at school is because the mob mentality afflicts those with low IQs. Is it really worth compromising the family friendly nature that a USMNT game should be because some dbags who watched a movie about the Chelsea Headhunters or Green Street Elite want to pretend to be "hard men." If you're trying to establish street cred as not being poseurs, at least man up and take the subway with me. Oh, and figure out who's playing for the USMNT and watch the game too.
Oh, also, another issue I have with American Outlaws is they get a big ticket allotment from US Soccer, but parlay the entire thing into their overpriced ticket package. I was forced to buy tickets from TM Mexico like I did in 2009. If you bought the package from AO for $580 or so, feel free to compare with my travel costs: $65 2 nights at the Sheraton Reforma, directly next to the US Embassy, via Priceline (65 a night, two people) $5 Subway and light rail tickets round trip $20 My half of taxis to and from the airport to Reforma $25 game ticket Total cost: $115 I fully understand that not everyone is comfortable taking public transportation in any situation, let alone in a foreign country/Mexico, but the level of hotel gouging is still crazy.
This is my main point of disagreement. Although it doesn't relate so much to an away game where all the fans generally sit in the same section, part of the atmosphere and joy of watching the sport and what makes it so different from sports like baseball, basketball or football is the coordinated fan support. That's why the atmosphere in Seattle was so impressive, and why the players gushed about it. If you don't want to sing and you'd rather sit on your hands with a notebook taking tactical notations, that's fine. Outside of away games there are plenty of areas to sit where nobody will bother you with singing. Although I'd say you are missing out on one of the best parts of the sporting experience. As for the chants being dumb, sure, most of them are pretty dumb. However, you can't criticize them if you don't have anything better.
These also came off more negative than I had intended for them too. I think that it's a good next step for the USMNT supporters, and it's only going to get better as the kinks start getting worked out. Eventually the casual fans will turn into the obsessed fans, and recruit more folks to perpetuate the cycle. The most important thing is to love the USA, love the game, and be good representatives of our country whenever we're associated with the stars and stripes. I sat two rows from the field at the 2010 World Cup Final, and I can say without a doubt that it wasn't even close to as cool of an experience as either trip to the Azteca...
Real Corona, I completely understand and agree with you. I chanted even when I thought some are stupid. I wish you had bolded the line before that, because that's where my issue was. There were a notable number of people who were turned away from the field in order to sing. If you're not watching the game, what are you doing there? And to clarify, it wasn't that they weren't watching during defensive possession or something that perturbed me. Free kicks, corner kicks, attacking third, still firmly turned away. I found it to be pretty bizarre.
I can't comment as I obviously wasn't there. The capos obviously take one for the team. They have their backs to the match the entire game, but they do it to coordinate the section and this benefits everybody, including the players. I'd imagine the Azteca brings out a lot of casual fans looking to do some adventure touring. Sort of like a friend of my who was in Istanbul and decided to see a Fener-Gala derby, sheerly for the sake of seeing it.
Too bad Sam's Army isn't a real supporters organization anymore. Have to give credit to AO for being a lot more inclusive then exclusive.
I must say the guys who run AO put in A LOT of very hard work, and I have nothing but good things to say about them. However, I came across this thread today when reading the section 8 boards, which kind of summarizes a number of sides of the issue: * http://www.s8c.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/299/gold-cup-2013-final-soldier-field-chicago-il While I think some of the opinions expressed are a little stuck up, there is a "bandwagon jumping bro" element to the supporters' section that didn't exist 4-5 years ago. I was at the AO Chicago watch event for the Guatemala game Friday and the guys next to me were friendly and fun to talk to and all, but dressed half in US gear and half in Cubs swag, and clearly hadn't followed the team prior to '10. All the while mentioning "AO makes it finally cool to watch soccer," "Yeah, I just don't care about MLS", not knowing most of the US players featured in the game. Of course this also a Chicago problem with our sports culture more so than with the AO nation-wide. Now if those fans eventually develop into people who actually care about the national team for the sake of the sport and want to participate in supporting the team, then good. But if all our big events are going to be overrun by bro-trash treating the Supporters Section like the bleachers at Wrigley, then no thanks. *note, not a Sec8 member, but I have intense respect for the work that those guys do.
You have to start somewhere. My first experience watching the team was the 1994 World Cup and I completely forgot they existed from 1994 to 1998 before the next tournament. If you had dragged my to a qualifying match I would have probably had a good time but I'd also probably have had no clue who any players were and I would have probably wore a San Francisco Giants hat. Personally I'd rather hang out with a neophyte Cubs/US fan than a stuck up, I've been watching the US since '07 so I'm so much more hard than you fan.
I only bring up the Wrigleyville bleacher crowd specifically because of the earned reputation that set has for using sporting event to be more about making drunk asses of themselves than being about the game itself and supporting the team. (You could make the same comparison to the "dollar dog night crowd" at Phillies games.) We have also had scattered problems with this at the ends of the River End in Philadelphia, though with a formal supporters group, it's much easier to self-police. Now if you said Sox/Brewers/Tigers etc fans, I may agree with you. . There's also a middle ground. I've brought more than a few newbies to games over the years and have made more than a few new Union/USA fans, and I'm not immune to wearing a Tigers hat to games, However, I'd much rather be surrounded by some knowledgeable people than the "Who's that who just lost the ball? Zuzi? Who does he play for? Not in Europe!? He SUCKS? He Sucks, Bro! Get him off the team! Where's Adu?! Adu would be dominating this game, Brah!" We've all been newbies at one point, but even then it doesn't take a soccer encyclopedia to recognize that the Capos and the guys organizing the banners, tailgates, giant flags have put in a ton of work and deserve respect, and it's probably within everyone's best interest to follow their leads.
I think the local chapters are great, I belong to American Outlaws Central Jersey, and I'd say that probably 60% of the people in the chapter, had no prior affiliation to soccer in general before our trip to Gillette for the Spain game and the Gold Cup viewing parties in 2011. I also love having tickets in the supporters section when I go to games, to really see the action up close. Now, I really do think the chants have sucked lately. As someone said, I hate the "US aint nothing to..." and the "come on US score a goal..." just childish and sounds terrible coming through the TV. As for the tailgates, nothing but respect for the people of AO, they put out a good spread with good drinks every time you go to a game.
I go to about ten baseball games a decade so I guess I missed that reference. As for the bolded part, that's simply something that happens as more fans begin to follow the sport. If you listen to talk radio you'll find the exact same level of discourse and fan knowledge about the NFL, NBA or NHL as the guy you are talking about. And yes, I know exactly the type you are talking about. The second paragraph I couldn't agree more on. I haven't really noticed too much of a problem in that regard, except maybe at Salt Lake where nobody could figure anything out. Maybe I'm missing something.
I can agree with you on one point, I think there is a section of members that go to games to get drunk, loud, and frat boyish and watch soccer second. But I don't think that's really an AO thing, I think you'll see that for MLS supporter's sections and hell, just about every sport in the US. I've seen these kinds of fans at baseball games, hockey games, etc. Secondly, I like the Nothing to F with chant, sure it's vulgar but it's uniquely American, especially the way Seattle did it with the call "We bring the noise, we bring the ruckus" and then the chant. Nobody is pretending to be hard, it's just a play on one of the most popular rap songs of all time. Despite what most groups will tell you, I don't think supporters sections are places for kids, especially if their parents are sensitive to language. Not only the language but there's quite a bit of drinking, beer showers from people jumping at a goal, the chants, etc. It's not to say you can't go to a baseball game and not hear a "bullshit" chant when an ump makes a wrong decision... but it's just a bit more concentrated in a supporter section. Hell, after one game I went to Landon Donovan ran over to the supporters section yelling "F*** yeah!!" to us, so there's that too. Honestly, AO takes up maybe a quarter of the stadium or less most games, 75% of the stadium is still family friendly.
YSA is the only thing that really bothers me, and not for the language. It's just idiotic, sounds like something a five year old would say the second he discovers the word asshole. Also, the ONLY REASON it ever existed was because of the Mexican fans. But I believe I read somewhere that AO has officially abandoned the chant, which is good, and now we just have to wait for some of the idiot stragglers to catch up. Plus, 5'4 130 pound dudes named Kyle, Cody and Dillon seem to be overly represented in AO. But that's merely an aesthetic gripe.
Wow. If that's true, then hopefully the extra money is being pumped back into AO for tifo/tailgates/etc. I mean, I can totally understand paying a bit extra for the convenience of having the logistics done by someone else, but an extra $450+ times 10 people and you're up to $4,500. What's the cost of living these days? In no way am I accusing the leaders of being corrupt, but like I said, hopefully any extra money is pumped back into the organization. Maybe that's why membership/gear costs are so low? Did their $580 include air? If so, I stand corrected.
a friend of mine said "AO people are cool to go to games with, but I wouldnt want to hang out with them on a regular basis". seems like a pretty fair assessment to me.