Oh? And what would lend it 'credibility'? If we pay attention to it and MAKE it important, then it will be. I believe on KC and DC"s championship flags for 97. 99, and 2000 they proclaim their SS championship as well as their Cup. KC also has a large banner celebrating their victory on the far stands at every match. The shield will be as important as it is made out to be. If you want it to be lent more cred, take it seriously.
Huh? How is it 'spin'? Look, it's just fact. How are playoffs any different from a league cup that you'd have to qualify for?
...by going out to every Fusion game in 2002 and screaming your head off for the current holders of the Supporters Shield. Listen: MLS told us VERU LOUDLY that the supporters shield ain't worth sh!t.
Because in the current format, I don't think people place the value on winning their division as you-or are seperating the two in this way. The playoff format dilutes the season's value. I may be wrong, but I would argue that fans like it better when the regular season has greater value and influence on the playoffs. As much as a "playoff league" as the NBA is, 13 of the 29 teams go home at season end-45%. I have no problems with playoffs, but there has to be a better balance-6 of ten puts you closer the the US norm. 8 of ten is too much, and then asking the fans to embrace the tradition of a Supporter Shield or an MLS division title...well, we differ, but I just think it is a kind spin. To me they ring hollow as any kind of title.
I think justifying this playoff format on the grounds that it will work when there are more teams in the league is a bit silly, especially when eight of ten teams don't have their own soccer-specific stadium.
I don't know how silly it is. I get your point, but it's starting to sound like expansion (better-planned and prepared for) is a matter of when, not if. And there are SSS's in the works. So we're not talking about a hypothetical 'someday,' we're talking about maybe three, four years from now. I think the fans will put up with 8 out of 10 for a few more years before getting weary of it, and before that happens, we'll have an expanded league, with it's own 'traditions,' relatively speaking.
So since you were able to make up a playoff format using less than 8 teams that would have resulted in not much excitement this year, you are concluding that 8 teams is always better than fewer than 8 teams? I don't follow your logic.
I can't find a better thread to put out the entirely wacky idea that's ruminating in my brain-box. I'm with a couple of others, you have a season champion, and a MLS Cup winner - the champion should be more important. The problem is that the last winner of the the last game is always considered "the best" even if their record doesn't reflect it. OK, so move the MLS Cup. Steps: 1. Season starts in March. 14 games are played from March thru June. 2. The month of July is used for MLS Cup. Same format - top eight teams, best to 5 points, yadda, yadda, yadda - that can be changed later. 3. August thru October you wrap up the season with the last 14 games. I know it has flaws. However, it makes the early part of the season extremely important - seeding for MLS Cup (must win almost every game). Winning MLS Cup is important in itself. However, those teams knocked out early - presumeably the weaker teams, will have the necessay time to relax and refit. And finally, the last 14 games, again a race for the Champion - assuming it isn't a blowout by a single team. Like I said, generally the winner of the last game is given the importance of being Champion. Take the post-season equation out of it and the overall champion gets that credit.
A very creative idea. I like it - not sure if it could be arranged, but I like it anyway. You're really thinking out of the box.
The MLS format that I personally would like best (and yes, this is subjective) would be to eliminate the playoffs entirely, except for having the two division winners play for the Cup in a series of games at their home stadia. Why do I like it? For a few reasons. 1- The regular season becomes ultra-meaningful. If you don't win your division you go home. No more slouching during the regular season only to turn it on for the playoffs. 2 - Rivalries are fostered. Nothing builds rivalries faster than being forced to beat the other teams in your division to survive. No wimpy wildcards in this format. Win or go home. 3 - There's still a big-time MLS Cup game for the TV audiences - made even bigger because you've got the best of the east vs. the best of the west, every year. As for all those also-ran teams who complain that their games are "meaningless" because they can't win their division, my own feeling (and again, this is subjective) is "cry me a river". If you want "meaningful" games, try GETTING BETTER and WINNING. Try EARNING your way instead of being handed playoff spots like free popcorn. If we really need incentives for the mediocre teams to keep playing hard, other than the pride they should have anyway, then give them berths into a "runner up" playoff tournament, and award the winner of that tournament a lesser Cup than the biggie. And back it with appropriate financial incentives.
Soccer hating trolls go home This is the single most ridiculous thread currently disgracing Big Soccer. If you can't scrape up at least a little interest in the wild finishes in both divisions, with every title and playoff position still at stake, with great individual performances almost every game, with bewildering turns of form and great storylines every where you look, there is a simple remedy: Go watch golf! Take up tennis! Stop pretending to be something you are not--a soccer fan--and stop trolling. If you were a Fire or Burn fan you might be thinking today of slitting your throat, but you would not be indifferent or bored. If you liked attacking soccer, you could call to mind the latest bomb from El Pescadito and just smile. Have Howard and Rimando done anything interesting lately? Do Crew, Metrostars and Wizards supporters have great billowy clouds of butterflies in their stomachs? Even the Revs are showing grit while proving themselves not irrelevant, which has caused jaws to drop for five minutes at a time from coast to coast. What more do you want? Do the Quakes and Gals care about who gets the Supporters Shield? Do Burn fans care that they might not even get home field adtvantage in the playoffs? Are DC fans in agony over missing the playoffs? There are thousands of posts on this board that show these fans care passionately. If you don't, that is your business, but you might show some respect, and not blow them all off with insulting threads like this. Take your suggestions for how to leach all the interest out of MLS and send them to the Mt. Pleasant Bucks.
Re: Soccer hating trolls go home Nicely said. Maybe we should just merge all these posts under the same "waaaaaa! MLS isn't exactly like the EPL yet!" thread. If not devote a whole forum to these posts. I'm not bored. My wife,though, is in fact hiding sharp objects from me. The good thing is, she's not letting me mow the yard until the season ends.
How about doing what the J-league (and some S.A. leagues I think) does: Have two stages and the winner of each of the stage will meet in the MLS Cup. Midway through the season every team would have a shot as they could win the second stage. The only problem is if the same team wins both stages there would be no MLS Cup One other note: unlike other sports, Soccer players are always looking to impress: be it to attract foreign clubs or look good for their national team managers. So all games tend to be very meaningful for players. I guess it is a different story for the fans, but a lot of times I find myself watching MLS games just to see the performance of the different players and the results tend to be secondary.
I'm kind of mixed on the whole format as well. If we had a single table, the ensuing SJ-LA home and home would mean even more than it will under the current format. Sure they are still fighting for the Supporter's Shield and top seed, but imagine the two rivals battling for the championship in the final two weeks. There would also be the opportunity to promote the US Open Cup as a March Madness type tourny and have those be the two big trophies each season. However, this is also the US, and all sports have one big game/series at the end (the possibility of promotion/relegation in MLS is also years away, if ever.) Having 8 teams in the playoffs, though, encourages mediocrity. This past three weeks would not have been meaningless for the good teams this year, as they would still be fighting for home field advantage. As for the crappy teams, to paraprhase Blackalicious "In the dark it's more likely that you notice light." If your team sucked this year, that's too bad...this is coming from a San Jose fan, so I've been there. Hopefully we have all been well equiped to deal with failure in life, and you look forward to next season. In the meantime, as you are still a fan of soccer, you'll watch the playoffs which has higher quality of matches due to better teams playing each other.
Thank God that eighth playoff spot is meaningless. I thought that painful ripping in my stomach as Taylor Twellman scored again and again against DC meant something. If only we had relegation I'd understand what true pain feels like and be able to have a real soccer experience.
Re: AMEN! Good thinking. If we could get everybody to do this, next year there'll only be 6 teams, and they can all make the playoffs. Thank you, Short Corner. I was out of town this weekend and forgot to set the TiVo, pulled up MLSnet.com, read everything I missed and was so pissed off I missed Twellman's HT, Ruiz' 2, and Col. own goal in the 97th minute, and then I pull up BS and have to read this crap. Thank you for so elloquently stating my exact feelings. I salute you, sir.
At a glance, this might sound good, but... A. you're improving the importance of the beginning of the season at the expense of the importance of the end of the season. What if the Quakes are 6 games ahead of everybody at the end of the season? The last six games for EVERYBODY is pointless (I suppose this is what you were elluding to in your post), nevermind the team that's already clinched the top spot. No fighting for relegation, no fighting for Euro spots, no fighting for home-field even. This scenario brings me to... B. You say the winner of the last game is given the importance of being Champion. What if the last game scheduled is between the two teams at the bottom of the table?
Re: Soccer hating trolls go home I am a soccer fan. I could care less about 5 teams with losing records chasing a meaningless division title while the propaganda machine (and a sorry one at that) tries to create minimal interest in an inferior product. How can you seriously accuse someone of being a so called eurosnob, and with a straight face tell me how "exciting" it is to watch this garbage?Bewildering turns of form? Yeah...that's called inconsistancy, look it up in the dictionary if you like. Do a little research, if you are such a big soccer fan, and tell me what percentage of games the top two teams in the major European leagues LOST during their last season? Face it... MLS is established enough that it should start to look beyond it's infant steps and work towards making the league serious and respected.
What's funny about the people who deride the discussion of the playoff format, is that the league talks about it outloud all the time-with a good chance that it'll be different next year. In fact last year, Garber was asked by Soccer America, "are the playoffs making as big a splash as you would like?" Garber answered, "We continue to struggle with the playoff format and attracting the kind of attention we need in the postseason." Working around the stadium situation is a large problem for sure, but I think too, he understands people's compliants and will tinker with the format to find the right mix. So sorry, this thread is far from, "the single most ridiculous thread currently disgracing Big Soccer."
Well, Ray, I agree with you that the playoff format is mallable, but I think everyone has agreed to that. To me, the silly portions of this thread come not from people proposing alternatives, or musing about the possibility of a single table, but from the people who say things like "I won't support a league that allows 80% of its teams into the playoffs" or "it weakens the regular season." To me, that's silly. For whom does it weaken the regular season to have meaningful games down to the last week (meaningful in the sense of jockeying for home field advantage, or even making the playoffs at all)? And as far as being taken seriously... the championships of most NCAA basketball conferences let everyone in regardless of the regular season, and... well, while I don't care much for it, it seems successful in terms of revenue generating. So what MLS is doing is not unprecedented. MLS is a ten team league. It's a ten team league where playoffs are a part of sports culture. It's also a 7 year old league that is still trying to figure out how to do certain things given the limitations they're facing (like control over their own venues, media exposure, etc.) Personally, playoff format is the least important thing to be worrying about compared to TV ratings, SSS, player wages, and the like.
Yes - but mostly how the playoffs will work (home-home, 2 groups of 4, etc...) NOT how many teams will make the playoffs. I care much less about the format than the # of teams that make the post-season. The Max should be: 6 teams, seeded, the 2 DIV winners with a bye. Look, I was looking forward to the DC - Revs game all week, and even though I saw it on 2.5 hour delay, it was a meaningful and enjoyable game. But 8 teams is too many. 6 teams max.
Which side are you on? Tinkering with the playoffs is as American as garage bands. Where we disagree is who the playoffs should be designed for. Do we want to maximize the interest throughout the year for hard core fans of each of the MLS teams? Or do we want to maximize interest for the casual fan who wants an unconfusing key matchup or two in the regular season and a short but sweet playoff? Or for those who think being a soccer fan is adopting ManU or Real Madrid or River Plate and never having to watch a losing team, do we try to create an American equivalent, who will win 90% of their games so their celebrity stalkers..oops, I mean fans...will bask in reflected glory without fear of a two game losing streak? I think you must start with the realization that for the hard core fans of MLS, those who buy the season tickets, the Shootout package, who indirectly pay the bills, this has been a surprisingly successful season. The preseason, with the poorly handled and perhaps unnecessary contraction, was a disaster. During May and June, the World Cup took almost all attention. But for the dedicated fans of every team, this has been an interesting year--bloodcurdling, incomprensible, infuriating at times, but interesting. A league which changed its structure to please some casual fans by making the last half of the season irrelevant for several of its teams would be cutting its throat. MLS does not make the bulk of its money from TV or from selling luxury boxes to corporations, it needs all of its teams to average more than 10,000 attendance. It cannot afford any more sick franchises. So if anyone who loves MLS and at least one of its teams has a suggestion for how to make the entire season more interesting for all of its fans--great, lets hear it! But for anyone who begins with "who cares about mediocre teams that only win half their games" or "the eastern division is so boring and confusing, who knows who is going to win, if I can't figure out the front runner so I can jump on the bandwagon, why bother?"--I have a suggestion: Go support ManU (Oops, they lost last year), I mean: Go support Bayern Munich (Oops they won't win this year), I mean: Go support Real Madrid.
I think we should move San Jose, fire Jack Edwards from ESPN, promote A-League teams without stadiums, sell all the players to Europe, get rid of the shootout, only have one team make the playoffs, end the season at the halfway point, hire U2 to play the All-Star Game--which we'll cancel, rename every team F.C. City or City F.C., change the uniforms, have Cobi invade Sportscenter and hold Dan Patrick hostage until we get more highlights, keep the uniforms the way they are, get new refs, put Ante Razov on the national team, get a big name Mexican star to play in L.A., start an MLS-Only Cable Network. . . . Huh? . . . Did someone say there was a game going on? . . . On the field?? Gee, I hadn't noticed.
I finally figured it out: 10-team leauge: 12 teams make the playoffs. 7th through 10th seeds get first round bye. This is to keep 1st through 6th seeds "sharp". Second round: 3 out of 5, first to 7. Or something like that. Semis: home and home, tie goes to higher seed. Championship game: Al Michaels and John Madden announcing.