It's Official, Revs in the Champions Cup

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by patfan1, Oct 23, 2002.

  1. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From US Soccer's website ...
    ________________________________________
    In addition to the automatic berth for the winner of Thursday’s 2002 U.S. Open Cup final, three other Champions Cup positions will go to the winner of the 2002 MLS Cup, the 2002 MLS Cup runner-up and the winner of the 2002 Supporters’ Shield in MLS. With the Open Cup finalist Los Angeles Galaxy already earning a spot as both the champions of MLS Cup and the Supporters’ Shield, the San Jose Earthquakes will take their place as one of the four U.S. representatives in the tournament as the team with the second most points in the MLS regular season.

    Should Los Angeles also qualify for the tournament via a third route as 2002 U.S. Open Cup champions, the fourth U.S. position will fall to the Dallas Burn (who had the third highest point total in MLS). The upstart New England Revolution qualified with their late run to the 2002 MLS Cup final, where they fell to L.A. 1-0 in sudden death overtime on Sunday.
    ________________________________________

    Monty
     
  2. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    Wow, since they are now completely "caught up" (not even delving into 2001 anymore)....I wonder if this will always be the formula? looks like its in order of importance this way:

    1. MLS Cup winner
    2. MLS Cup runner-up
    3. Supporter's Shield
    4. US Open Cup winner

    huh, and they've decided to go 3 deep in the supporter's shield instead of open cup runner-up if there's a 3-peat somewhere. i don't know if this is just a bit of temporary "fudging" to get dallas into something or a measure to say that the runner-up in the open cup will never get in?....as to further limit the possibility of an A-league team earning a position in the c.c.c. (which they might not be able to afford in the first place)

    i'd be quite happy if they stick with this formula....meaning that the open cup winner gets a spot in concacaf. finally, it means something! plus, i think its fair that both mls cup participants get in and that s.shield is important to. way to go ussf!
    ;)

    i've just added more info on the other zones qualifying process and where the c.c.c.'s 16 teams stand as of right now in that original thread.
    Revs in Concacaf Champion's Cup 2003...a lock!!
     
  3. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ
    My guess would be get Dallas in to face a Mexican side - big gate and the chance to hook repeat customers

    This is amazing news

    The Revs playing in winter - it will be just like that qualifier in C-bus

    :)
     
  4. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Damn, I'm going to agree with George. :)

    So we don't have to wait 5 months to see more matches ... wow! So this is what happens when you actually win?

    I'm being lazy, I know that, but does anyone have dates as to when this competition starts?
     
  5. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ
    :)

    Thanks Monty

    See I ain't that bad after all

    I think too that Kraft also saw the pack crowd on Sunday and envisions that every home match so one would guess it's only onward and upward from here
     
  6. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    rough competition outline is in the other thread.....feb.
     
  7. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ
    Rev-o-lution !

    Wait did I just chant ?

    Uh oh.......success has gone to my head !
     
  8. worldcup76

    worldcup76 Member

    Sep 11, 2000
    Hartford, CT
    This is great news, do you think alot of Revs fans will come out for these games though, us hardcore fans def will but what about the occasional fan?
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to give the 4th berth to Columbus--regardless as to whether or not they win the USOC? I understand San Jose getting the second spot for being the Supporter's Shield runnersup. Shouldn't the same logic hold true for the USOC runnerup (if, indeed, the Crew end up runnersup)?
     
  10. Bill Duggan

    Bill Duggan New Member

    Aug 17, 2002
    MA
    Where do you think the home games will be played? I heard rumors of Brown Univ.
    I dont see why the razor cant be put into operation.


    SUPAH REVOLUTION!!
     
  11. art

    art Member

    Jul 2, 2000
    Portland OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: It's Official, Revs in the Champions Cup

    IMO the US Open Cup should always be the last priority in the Champion's Cup/League (? Which is it?). The only reason US Cup winners get to go in the first place is because there's no longer a CONCACAF Cup Winner's Cup. Let the Champion's Cup/League be about the best in league games/MLS Cup games.
     
  12. GPK

    GPK BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 5, 1999
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why did we need a new thread for this?
     
  13. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    gpk....can you merge the two together? sorry if it sounds a bit ego-ish. the format for qualifying and countries already qualified are in the other thread perhaps some of the questions here are already answered over there.

    the ussf is probably trying to stabilize the selection process. esp since concacaf seems to have stabilized the format. looks like the days of letting teams in to a concacaf tourney by using criteria from 2-3 years back is finally over and they are trying to throw a consistent "carrot" out there for the u.s. clubs to chase.

    the likelyhood of an a-league team getting into the usoc final is far greater than that team actually winning it. i'd think that an a-league squad may not be able to afford this relatively new format (home and away series, travel 3x minimum)...plus, i don't think that the ussf would want to send an a-league team over an mls squad if at all possible (believing that an mls side will produce a greater showing over the long haul than the one-off of the usoc)

    it will be very interesting the next time a non-mls squad wins the usoc to see if they decide its time for a c.c.c. qual "overhaul" all of a sudden.
     
  14. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: It's Official, Revs in the Champions Cup

    I guess the USSF's rationale is that want the best teams representing the USA in the Champions' Cup. And often, at least one of the finalists in the Open Cup doesn't meet that criteria.
     
  15. biggyv

    biggyv Member

    May 18, 2000
    PGH PA
    Re: Re: Re: It's Official, Revs in the Champions Cup

    Do we need to look any further than the 2001 Revs for an example? :)
     
  16. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    Does anyone know the format of the tournament? revolutionsoccer.net has 16 teams split into two divisions of 8 teams each. We can't play one (or two) games against the other seven teams in our group. Is it some type groups of 4 (3 home. 3 away, then advance) or a group of 2 (home and away)? We'll also have the Open Cup to fit into our schedule.
     
  17. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The way I read it is that there will be 16 teams total in two brackets. The Revs will be in a bracket with another MLS team, 2 mexican teams, 3 central American teams and one Caribbean side.

    I read it as each round will be a 2-leg affair, and it whittles down to 4 teams, then 2 and then a finalist from each bracket.

    OK, so it means we are only guaranteed one home game, but with any luck we can go deep in this tournament. It would be nice to see an all-MLS final, wouldn't it?

    Tom
     
  18. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    anyone that wants to see the format.....i explained it in the original champions cup thread very clearly. i pulled it off the concacaf website....of course it could have changed since then & concacaf is not know for making sticking decision. go to the thread.....it shows # of teams from each region and the teams that are currently in the round of 16 right now.
     
  19. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    i don't know why the moderator decided to shut down the thread that had all the c.c.c. info in it instead of the woo-hoo thread (no offense to monty)....but, it did have info that people are now asking questions on.

    ------
    Here is the info I've been able to piece together regarding the 2003 Concacaf Champion's Cup. (much text "lifted" from various sources...some concacaf.com and some from a feb 2001 "soccertimes" article. any new info would be appreciated. I had trouble finding any real info on mls' archived news)

    From what I can find, the concacaf regions get the following representation:
    Mexico: 4 teams
    USA: 4 teams
    Central America zone: 6 teams
    Caribbean zone: 2 teams

    Central American and Caribbean zones are going thru "qualifying" right now thru November to determine their 6 and 2 team representatives respectively.

    In the past, the US has played "catch-up" in determining which teams (mls) get to be representatives. Sometimes, winners and runners up from 2 years previous would get the nod. However, they seem to have "caught up" this past 2002 Champion's Cup campaign.

    KANSAS CITY WIZARDS - (USA, winner 2000 MLS Cup)
    CHICAGO FIRE - (USA, 2000 MLS Cup runner-up)
    D.C. UNITED - (USA, runner-up 2001 FC Giants Cup)
    SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES - (USA, winner, MLS Cup 2001)

    For 2003, its not unlikely that this will be the way teams get selected:
    If all of this still rings true….LA could potentially be the winners in 3 categories.
    LOS ANGELES GALAXY - (USA, winner 2002 MLS Cup, winner 2002 Supporter's Shield, and 2002 US Open Cup winner (or runner-up))

    If the federation's nominees have to be justified as written above…really that leaves only 5 possible mls teams in current operation for the 4 slots (using results of the competitions not yet used to determine participation for past concacaf tourneys):
    LOS ANGELES GALAXY - (USA, winner 2001 US Open Cup, 2001 MLS Cup runner-up)
    NEW ENGLAND REVOLUTION - (USA, 2001 US Open Cup runner-up, 2002 MLS Cup runner-up)
    COLUMBUS CREW - (USA, 2002 US Open Cup runner-up (or winner))
    SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES - (USA, 2002 Supporter's Shield runner-up)
    CHICAGO FIRE - (USA, 2001 Supporter's Shield runner-up)
    MIAMI FUSION (defunct) - (USA, winner 2001 Supporter's Shield)

    I think they'd be hard pressed to pass up the REVS' runner-up status for 2001 O.C. and 2002 MLS Cup in order to give a slot to both SJ and CHI as S.S. runners up.

    Therefore, given all the LA "overlap" the 4 team slotted into 2003 Concacaf Champions Cup would likely be (imo, in order of importance):

    1. LOS ANGELES GALAXY - (USA, winner 2002 MLS Cup, winner 2002 Supporter's Shield, and 2002 US Open Cup winner (or runner-up), winner 2001 US Open Cup, 2001 MLS Cup runner-up)
    2. NEW ENGLAND REVOLUTION - (USA, 2001 US Open Cup runner-up, 2002 MLS Cup runner-up)
    3. SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES - (USA, 2002 Supporter's Shield runner-up)
    4. COLUMBUS CREW - (USA, 2002 US Open Cup runner-up (or winner)) [this is a "lock" if they win on thurs. if not, I'm not sure that with the lack of "status" of the Open Cup that they don't look elsewere (like Chicago) for the 4th team.]

    ---------
    Well, to further this international club fantasy that I'm entertaining with the revs…..here's a better "snapshot" for those that care as to where the qualifying stands for the 16 team 2003 Concacaf Champion's Cup.

    To review from yesterday (won't go into c.c.c. format again).
    C,C.C. - 16 team tourney.
    Mexico: 4 teams
    USA: 4 teams
    Central America: 6 teams
    Caribbean: 2 teams

    As of right now….here's where USA, C. America, and Caribbean regions stand.
    (maybe I'll see how mexico will select teams tonight or tomorrow)

    USA: 4 teams
    1. LOS ANGELES GALAXY (for a multitude of reasons)
    2. 3 more t.b.d. (likely: NE REVOLUTION, COLUMBUS CREW, SJ 'QUAKES)

    Caribbean: 2 teams
    Final Round will consist of (2) 4 team groups, top team in each group advances to c.c.c.
    (h + a, round robin format to start in december 2002)

    Group A:
    ARNETT GARDENS (Jamaica)
    CLUB FRANCISCIAN (Martinique)
    VIOLETTE AC (Haiti)
    VSADC (St. Lucia)

    Group B:
    W CONNECTION FC (Jamaica)
    FICA (Haiti)
    T.B.D.
    T.B.D.

    right now, those TBD teams in Group B are in the middle of being determined.
    winners of h + a matches between the teams below will move on:
    george town sc (cayman islands) v harbor view fc (jamaica) [10/17 & 10/27]
    (george town sc won game 1)
    u.s. robert (martinique) v st. joseph martinique (dominica) [10/25 & 10/27]

    Central America: 6 teams
    Final Round will consist of (3) 4-team groups playing "quadrangulars" with top 2 in each group advancing to the c.c.c.
    [teams play each other only 1x, all 4 teams play over a 5 day period in central location]

    Quad. 1 (10/9-10/13 in El Salvador):
    ALIANZA (El Salvador)
    C.D. F.A.S. (El Salvador)
    DEPORTIVO ARABE UNIDO (Panama)
    FC DEPORTIVO JALAPA (Nicaragua)
    [deportivo arabe unido (panama) and c.d. f.a.s. (el salvador) have qual'd]

    Quad. 2 (10/23-10/27 in Guatemala):
    CSD COMUNICACIONES (Guatemala)
    CSD MUNICIPAL (Guatemala)
    FC SAN MARCOS (Nicaragua)
    SANTOS DE GUAPILES FC (Costa Rica)

    Quad. 3 (10/30-11/3 in Honduras):
    CD MARATHON (Honduras)
    CD MOTAGUA (Honduras)
    LD ALAJUELENSE (Costa Rica)
    TAURO FC (Panama)

    In summary…..
    of the 16 teams to be included in the C.C.C. 2003
    Mexico (4 t.b.d.)
    USA (1 t.b.d....crew or burn)
    LOS ANGELES GALAXY
    NEW ENGLAND REVOLUTION
    S.J. EARTHQUAKES
    Central America (4 t.b.d.)
    DEPORTIVO ARABE UNIDO (Panama)
    C.D. F.A.S. (El Salvador)
    Caribbean (2 t.b.d.)
     
  20. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    well, i just read the revs website....and i personally don't buy the format that some pats website staffer has typed in there. i hold out that i could be totally wrong. however, i can't see making any team play and pay for a minimum of 14 matches....only to potentially come in last place in that group.

    i mean, if a team from haiti were to qualify could anyone see them paying to come to the u.s. and mexico 4 times....not to mention 3x c. america and realistically not have a shot at being even in the top 4 or 5.

    no way. until someone proves me wrong....i stick by the 4 group, 4 teams each group scenario. if you weren't "meant to" move on...you're only committed to 3 away games. that makes sense for everyone. they might, in the end, do what they did in 2002 and have NO groups and just do drawn home and away knock-out phases....but i don't see "forcing" any team to play 14 mandatory matches.


    to further update c.america....

    Guatemalan sides open quadrangular with wins
    24.10.02 - In the evening’s first match, Comunicaciones easily defeated Costa Rican visitors Santos de Guapiles FC 3:0, while Municipal defeated Nicaraguan side FC San Marcos 4:0 to leave the bitter rivals tied atop the group after the first day of matches. The top two finishers at the conclusion the group will qualify for the first round proper of the 2003 CONCACAF Champions Cup.
     
  21. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US Soccer release says that it is home-and-away knockout. No groups. That would be the same as this year. Three away games would be too much for some of the clubs, namely those from the Caribbean. Even the European Cup didn't go to a group format until they saw they could get big TV money from it. There is no TV money here.

    "The tournament will be played as home-and-away legs from the round of 16 through to the 2003 final."
     
  22. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    What, no "Joe Public"? They should be in on the strength of having the best name. As should "Once Lobos"!
     
  23. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    yeah, that's what i thought too.

    these guys have one of the funniest "logo/fonts/whatever" that i've seen.

    http://www.joepublicfc.com/

    btw....
    i don't think concacaf has 100% decided on the format yet. i hope they go to a 4-team/4 group format. i know this whole tourney is still in its infancy and that sponsorship, tv, and the like aren't what they are elsewhere. but, think it would be good for everyone to get 6 matches in minimum and not just 2. there's got to be a way to help some of the c.amer and caribe teams that may have trouble financially to accomplish this. ideas?
     
  24. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    if mls is going to get serious about this tourney.....depth of bench is going to be an issue.

    most "successful" team overall last season would seem to be k.c:
    made it to c.c.c. semis
    made it to u.s.o.c. semis
    made it to mls cup quarters

    believe they played 38 games total during reg season (+ another 3 v l.a. in mls cup 1/4's)...that's a lot of matches.

    imo, priorities would seem to lie for most teams....
    1. mls cup
    2. c.c.c.
    3. u.s.o.c.
     

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