At first I thought this was basically just a fluff piece without much substantive information about the new recruits. I wasn't even going to post it on the board. Then I got to the bottom and read the quote below. That I thought was interesting ... http://www.ussocceruk.com/news/?CatTypeId=2&ContentId=1280
Yeah, well we'll see just how rad it is... Takes time to do such a thing. I'll be curious to see what the new favored formations are & who they favor. I'd think it highly unlikely they'd do anything that dampens the Golden Child's chances at putting em in the back of the net anytime he's on the field. I only hope it's balanced in attack.
Personally, I love the idea. I think DC went from one of the OLDEST teams in the league to probably the Middle of the pack age-wise. But I think, this season will be a fun one, even though we may/may not win as much as we'd like this season. If we get an excellent M.A. Reyes back, w/ Convey's imagination we'll definitely play more attractive football. Olsen can beat of the injury bug, our defense and midfield will be strong enough to allow Adu and Convey w/ Cerritos to stretch their wings and show off a little. I'm still pondering the likelihood of Adu starting in the first match.
The only thing I don't like about it is the messenger. I've never been convinced that Kevin Payne has any business determining our strategy related to the team we field. I supposed it could be argued that his point is broader and forward thinking but not immediate thinking. Still the hair stands on end when he gets close to the topic. Don't let anyone kid you - the early success of United, the big trade shakeup in our first season, and our general "big mo" was all Bruce Arena. -- We're ba-aack -- The Internet Nuts!
Wasn't the same thing said before the 2001 season when DC unloaded its veteran players? It didn't work then under Rongen. Let's hope the youngsters bring some bite in their game and earn starting spots. We're toast if they do otherwise. GM
Yeah, I still think it's piss-poor that Etcheveddy couldn't have been invited to camp and work out with Nowak. I would think he'd have an open mind about it, if salary were to be ignored. However, word is that Nowak has already contacted Adu, and things are advancing at decent pace. In other words, it looks solid from the get-go. Sum is gonna be larger than the parts this year. imho
It's not the same thing, actually. Look at the youngsters then versus now. Some of the "youngsters" now were the also youngsters of 2001. So while we're certainly talking about building the team around young players we're not talking (as we were in 2001) of building the team (partially) around a bunch of first and second year players. Some of our current youngsters are already seasoned veterans. Look at the rookies from 2001 who remain on the team: Nelsen, Namoff, Quaranta. In 2001 Convey was only in his second season. Sure, Quaranta isn't coming along ideally but three of those youngsters from 2001 are now veteran mainstays on this team. In short, I don't think you can compare the "core of young American talent" in 2001 with the "core of young American talent" today. Some of today's young talent is actually pretty experienced. Honestly, I think that would have made it worse. It would have made for an even more difficult and embarrassing situation than it already was. Etcheverry's MLS days were over. He'd been on a long steady decline since about 1999. Unless he was willing to take a dramatic pay cut - which he has never been willing to do in the past - then he wasn't going to make the roster again. Inviting him into camp and then inevitably cutting him from the roster would have been horrible. It would have been humiliating for Etcheverry and embarrassing for MLS and DC United. As it was MLS and DC United treated his departure as a retirement. I'm yet to see anything from those parties admitting that he went to Bolivar. Given that Etcheverry wouldn't retire himself, doing as they did was probably the only way for everyone to save face and avoid the embarrassment of cutting the only legend that MLS has known.
slightly off topic didn't want to start a seperate thread for this, but need some moral support. After the un-20's, tell me Coney will be starting in the #10 spot. i mean start in the midfield. You don't thnink he'll be on the wing again, do you?
future built on Convey??? My biggest concern about Payne's statement is that it may be unwise to build the future of United around Convey as the leader of the young talent, since he has made it clear that he wants to get to the EPL as the earliest possible opportunity. Maybe something has changed, or will change - i.e. Convey deciding to stick with MLS until after he plays in the Olympics (if we qualify) and some WC qualifiers, thus delaying his transfer until next offseason, but if he still wants to go ASAP, that would be the late summer transfer window. While it still may be best for DCU to have Bobbito at the #10 spot, even for less than one full season, its a legitimate question whether to build an attack around someone who wants to get outa Dodge. Of course, if Adu progresses rapidly, he might just be able to step in when Bobby moves to the EPL.
I've posted this before ... more or less. But the same question was asked above and so this old rant of a post applies again ... "A few things: First, we don't know that Convey is going to Europe. There are lots of players whose European prospects are talked about in the press and on the boards, there are lots of players who talk themselves about going to Europe. Sure. But when you get right down to it very few of them go. Even the best have a tendency to stay in MLS. Maybe that'll all change this year and Beasley, Bocanegra and some others will go but I'm not holding my breath. More likely than not Convey will be around for the entirety of the next MLS season. He'll be gone no more than any other top MLS player. Not to play him in his strongest position (as demonstrated with the U-20s) would be foolish. Or do you think that the Crew shouldn't have organized their offense around McBride, or that Chicago shouldn't have had Bocanegra in the core of their defense, or that San Jose shouldn't have their attack center on Donovan? If Convey is available, Convey should play his best position just like any other top MLS player with national team commitments. I agree it's a problem that if the team gets into a groove with Convey only to have him leave mid-season. However, are you so sure we'll get into a groove with anybody but Convey? I suspect we won't. It's not like there are many viable attacking alternatives on this team. Dema needs other players around, Q2 (IMHO) doesn't have it and Stewart should be playing at withdrawn forward, not at midfield. So as I see it this team won't go anywhere without Convey stepping up and taking a leadership role in the midfield. If this team doesn't go anywhere this season my sense is that'll be worse for team chemistry than Convey's unlikely departure mid-season. As I said above, it's foolish to plan this club’s next season around the possibility that Convey leaves at mid-season. I understand the paranoia about Convey leaving but that paranoia, I think, is poorly founded. Sure he wants to leave, sure he already had one offer, but that doesn't mean they'll be beating down his door to sign him next year any more than any other top caliber MLS player. This whole bit of reasoning hinges on the mere possibility that we lose Convey for the season. Well, that can happen with any player through injury. Imagine back in the day someone saying let's play Etcheverry at left-mid in case he gets injured and is out for the season. It's a lot easier to integrate and replace a left mid than a central mid. Now does that make any sense? No. We don't know the future. We don't know that Convey is leaving. He's here now and should play in central midfield because that’s the position that will give his team the best chance of winning. Lastly, keep in mind that if Convey does go to Europe we will be guaranteed an allocation and with that we’ll have the resources and ability to find someone to replace him."
Well said Knave. I would add this: a team should never be "built around" a single player. A team should be fashioned into a collective unit that can absorb the loss of a player to injury, suspension, or departure. That was Hudson's greatest weakness in my mind... the failure to have those "spare parts" ready to plug in to the team in an emergency.
I agree with most of your post. Of course, this transfer window business may have some impact on the last part. And I disagree with this only insofar as the younger the "top caliber" player, the more willing some club might be to offer the kind of transfer fee that MLS might take and Bobby hasn't even turned 21 -- he's both good and has an upside.
And based on the numbers from the Soccer America artcile I brought up in another thread that would give United the $143,000 Convey gets now plus the $22,483 they are currently under the cap for a total of $165,483 to offer to Convey's replacement. Also United currently has two SI slots at it's disposal, Ryan Nelson being United's only SI, so the field would be wide open based on a player being willing to accept the approximatly $165K at United's disposal at that point.
what about the 250K from Marco's salary? I'm sure that's been covered on these boards but somehow I've missed it.
Not counting any draft picks but Adu, does that leave us with just 16 senior players (two below the limit) and five "protected" players (one below the limit)? Senior: Alegria, Jose $27,783 Cerritos, Ronald $162K Convey, Bobby $143K Kovalenko, Dema $176K Martins, Thiago $32,500 Namoff, Bryan $27,780 Nelsen, Ryan $90,554 Olsen, Ben $161K Petke, Mike $165K Prideaux, Brandon $69,050 Quaranta, Santino $95K Quintanilla, Eliseo $54K Reyes, Milton $112,650 Rimando, Nick $86K Stewart, Earnie $280K ($285K) Warren, Doug $25,200 Protected: Adu, Freddy $280K ($500K) (P-40) Barclay, Devin $83,917 (P-40) Carroll, Brian $34K (P-40) Eskandarian, Alecko $80,500 (P-40) Stokes, David $30,850 (P-40) With the releases of Geddes and Perea, we have no one on a "Developmental" contract at the moment. So, we can add one Developmental/P-40 and two regular players without cutting anyone, right? But with just $22K+ to do it, we'll be lucky to get one regular guy (plus a P-40 or Developmental player, which doesn't count against the cap). So, one of our draft picks, assuming they sign a Developmental deal, would seam to make the squad, but where do we get the cash for two more regular players? With all of the call-ups we'll have, we're definitely going to need a full squad.
The article with all the salaries you get your numbers from also mentioned that the base salary was different for many players than their "CAP" salary charged to the team. So you can use it to guess, but it will never be 100% accurate.
Also, it's been repeatedly pointed out that it's really a salary budget, not a hard salary cap. Teams routinely go over it. And fatbastard is right. We don't have real information on the cap numbers.
Completely accurate salary list or not, I think the roster breakdown was accurate. I think we have space for two more "regular roster" players (plus one Developmental player that won't count against the cap) and likely very little money with which to pay them.
Yes, that's what I've got too. Including our draftees we've got 24 players on the team. 5 are roster protected and 16 are senior team. The 3 other draftees are basically in limbo category-wise. https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2033053#post2033053
The answer to the earlier question about Marco's max salary...really, the team has deleted Hristo, Ivanov and Etcheverry. Sounds like we'd have beaucoup cap room. But...we traded for cap room last year from Dallas. We applied an allocation against Earnie's salary last year (and that is now gone for 2004). Hristo made a pittance (and part of it was not counted b/c he was an assistant--I think the formula is 1/4th of the salary is off the books if you're a player assistant). And then a lot of guys got automatic escalators in their salaries. Without looking at the 2003-2004 numbers, I'm sure that Convey, Quaranta, Nelsen, Petke, Rimando, Kovalenko, Quintanilla, Reyes, Olsen, and maybe Cerritos and Prideaux all had contracts that said in 2004 they got an a raise of anywhere from $2K to $10K. MLS tends to sign players to a series of one-year deals with options (that the league/team can choose to pick up) and the options usually have pay increases. That's about the only reason players would agree to them. No way Nelsen would have signed a couple of years ago if he'd been offered $40K for 3-4 years with no pay raise as part of the deal.
I don't consider the "numbers" to be hard and fast accurate. However they are the best we have had to work with since the league started.