Italy vs. USA [R], 11/20/2018 - Post-Mortem Thread

False on both counts.

 

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

Sure. But not all opinions are equally alienated from the evidence of our own eyes.

 

True on both counts.

 

You are right, THHF. It is true that it was false on both counts. Keep up the good work.

 

1. Bradley
3. Klinsmann
3. Arena

 

Over their career with USMNT:
[1] Arena
[2] Bradley
[3] Bora
[4] Klinsmann
[5] Sampson
[6] Gansler

Over their career with Club Football:
[1] Arena
[2] Bradley
[3] Sampson
[4] Klinsmann

Over their career with the Mannschafters [1] Klinsmann

So, hey, Klinnsi's Da Guy!

 

I should add I just meant Arena Part 2 in my ranking.

 

Nobody is right when everybody is wrong but somebody has to be #1

 

What are you basing that on? It certainly is not on results.

coach	matches	wins	draws	losses	win %	AGoalsF	AGoalsA
Arena	148	81	35	32	66.55	1.64	0.75
Klinsmann	98	55	16	27	64.29	1.82	1.11
Bradley	80	43	12	25	61.25	1.68	1.21
Sampson	62	26	14	22	52.23	1.34	1.11

 

And there you have it. Its all in the numbers. The US just does not, on a whole, have enough interest in soccer to support anywhere near what European clubs have. If all, or nearly all (or even 10%) of the elite athletes that we have in all of the other US sports chose soccer instead, we may have a chance. As it stands, the numbers are just not there.

 

Were I to rank coaches, I'd go for competitive results against strong teams as the barometer. Beating St. Vincent 2-0 or 6-0 makes no difference. What should matter is Hex/WC/Confeds/Copa results, and the Gold Cup ones after the group is done.

Maybe make a note for horrible results against minnows, like losing to Guatemala.

 

Quality of results mostly. I don't count friendlies for much of anything. Also more intangible stuff like team character and leadership style--the coaches' public personas and how they deal with players and generally carry themselves.

 

What about beating Guadeloupe 1-0?
Or beating Haiti 1-0?
Or beating Martinique 3-2?

Funnily enough, that's one example Gold Cup game from each of the last 3 coaches!

 

So far you get the W, it matters little if you took the minnow seriously and destroyed it, or waited until the last 10 minutes to kill it.

 

In terms of competitive results, Arena did fail to qualify for the WC. That drops him below Bob and JK.

 

Not to mention, if we're giving him all the wins from his failed WC tenure, we also need to recognized the 2006 cycle's failure as well.

 

So, personal, subjective opinion. Unless you're in the locker room, your assessment of 'team character and leadership style' is speculation. I suspect the coaches' public persona is what really rubs you the wrong way, and that's OK, but not a quality we can hold to the light and check to see if it's counterfeit.

 

I didn't say anyone rubbed me the wrong way. Preferring Bradley doesn't mean I'm being negative to Klinsmann.

 

You are giving Jurgen waaaaay too much credit. He was neither an idealist or an iconoclast. He turned out to be, basically, a traditionalist, a Euro-chauvinist and stereotypically German in his inflexibility and pragmatism. He lacked attention to detail, specifically tactical implementation, which would have been acceptable had he not also lacked big ideas and vision. He was politically inept and burned bridges with everyone he needed to work with to be successful mostly over stupid public spats that failed to critique MLS or USSF in any meaningful or constructive way except to blame both for his inability to achieve.

This piece, a reaction to the suggestion that Jurgen take over the England job, pretty much sums up my feelings.

 

So you don't give Klinsi any blame for the WC qualifying failure even though he was coach for the first two games, which we lost, and was in charge during all the preparation before the campaign started?

 

I thought he was talking about 2006 cycle....

 

I blame Sunil for re-upping him another 4 years. He did a good job the first cycle and the team improved for the most part. But he was at least part architect with Arena of our most recent embarrassment.

 

Imagine how different things would have if Klinsmann who had just had back to back ('12' and '13) best winning % and best competitive win % in the history of the program and exceeded expectations by getting out of the group of death was fired by sunil and replaced by ...

Greg Berhalter?

 

Shet would have hit the fan for sure. I am just a fan in not re-upping nat team managers unless they had a very young team that is basically coming back and they made the final couple rounds of the previous WC.

I would have been more open to Berhalter (an unknown to me at that time) than rehiring an aged out Arena, however.