Italy vs Spain & Germany: Friendlies Thread

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by Italy-Azzurri-Fan, Mar 19, 2016.

  1. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    You don't necessarily need Ronaldo or Messi in attack to be successful. However, you do typically need players of a better ilk than Pelle and Eder.
     
  2. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Yes but I said Eder is rubbish and likely lost his place. Pelle can do well on his day, but Giovanni might be better.

    Hey guys Giovinco is about the same level as balotelli in 2012, and is likely a much better team player. Insigne is better than Cassano was.

    If we lineup like this seriously we can match anyone.


    -Insigne-Giovinco/Gabbs-Bernardeschi-
    -Darmian-Marchisio-Verratti-Florenzi-
    -Chiellini-Bonucci-Barzagli-
    -Buffon-

    The BBC is the best defense in the world especially when it comes to national teams. Darmian has been inconsistent for ManU but for Torino last season he was excellent on the left and sometimes helps with attack as well. Florenzi has arguably been Roma's best player and shut down Neymar and Ronaldo really impressively tons of times, and at he same time he helps with attack like remember the goal against Barcelona. Then marchisio is one of juventus best players, and Verratti is very key to PSG midfield in the UCL especially. Insigne is probably the serie a player of the year with his number of goals and assists and he is world class. Gabbs despite lack of playing time he is usually a good player when he gets played due to good heading, shooting, and dribbling which is what we need and he is also strong and big. Giovinco is good to. Bernardeschi has been amazing for fiorentina especially in Europe, like remember the goal against Spurs? Also he is young and looks very promising.

    Spain and German might have a somewhat better full squad on paper than us but we can beat them on our day. Remember the cure on Germany in every major tournament? Although w can't take it for granted, due to them beating us in the friendly but again I don't know who was giving their all.
     
  3. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    How do you compare a guy who plies his trade in a second-tier league to Balotelli, who at that point, was among the most promising attacking talents in the world? We all know what happened since then, but the amounts of money expended on Balotelli around that time shows how highly-regarded he was.
     
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  4. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I honestly think balotelli now might be better within the next few seasons than he ever was before. He was very inconsistent in 2012 and wasn't even an actual starting player until the knockouts. He was never a real team player either. I think within the next seasons he will become an even better player and can be back at the Azzurri as a main striker or sub depending on the level of other strikers we have. He is only 25 years old. Now his attitude is much better and is a better team player now, but has been struggling with injuries lately. I do think Giovinco now is better than balotelli in 2012 especially with the team, and can also dribble bette as well. Gabbiadini is also someone we must watch out for. He did play in some previous games for qualifying and friendlies so he still has a chance, and now I think Conte isn't so fixed on Pelle, and Eder I am sure almost lost his place at the euros if not already. Hopefully Gabbs will get more playing time and can fight for a euros spot because I honestly think it will be a shame if he misses out. What I like about him is he can dribble, shoot, and head, and he is big and strong. Pelle and Zaza are good players but don't have all of those in them.

    By the way it looks like Berardi won't be there which is sad, but let's be honest. It's not like he is having a really good season and over half his goals this season are penalties.
     
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  5. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    Balotelli has commanded multiple transfer fees of over 20M Euros. Giovinco was never valued that high. We have an objective means of comparing the two and Gio falls significantly short (with no pun intended). That said, I have given up on Balotelli. He has serious character issues and he hasn't shown any indication that he will fix it anytime soon.
     
  6. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member

    Mar 29, 2015
    Insigne better than Cassano?

    Sorry man, that's absurd. We likely won't see another Italian man with as much pure talent as Cassano for a long time. For all the shit off the field, on the field few can touch Cassano's talent.
     
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  7. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member

    Mar 29, 2015
    Absolutely. After the German debacle, I see all sorts of outlets question Insigne and Bernadeschi, but then call for Buffon, Barzagli, Chiellini, Marchisio, De Rossi, and Montolivo's to lead the team...the same horseshit that has stunk it up for the last 6-8 years.
     
  8. Stamos

    Stamos Member

    Apr 6, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I agree that Cassano has much more natural talent than Lorenzinho but how many times did we truly see an in form and focused Cassano?
     
  9. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I don't see how or why Cassano isn't even considered for a selection. Age, inconsistency or not, I doubt he would have been worse than any of the other players who were featured against Germany. It has to be something personal Conte has against him. The game he played a few weeks back for Samp was simply incredible and deserving of a spot.
     
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  10. krado33

    krado33 Member+

    May 23, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Conte wouldn't like his attitude... but also the team veterans don't like him. I remember they were upset when Prandelli brought him back into the squad prior to 2014 WC. And then Cass got angry when Prandelli wouldn't start him.:ROFLMAO:

    If his fitness is good, I'd certainly have him there on ability.
     
  11. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Cassano is a fellow Pugliese. I don't it's anything personal
     
  12. Nek Sanalet

    Nek Sanalet Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Dec 30, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #462 Nek Sanalet, Apr 1, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
    Darmian has been poor for a while now at MU. His shit form reared its ugly head against Germany as well, where he was burned multiple times.

    By "Italy", I meant both club and national team. And yes, they both do a bad job. The national team has had a history of not calling up players until they are 26-27...thus inexperienced at international level. Other countries try to get their young and brightest in the system earlier. Its a joke that Berardi isn't in the squad yet. Even if he's having a relatively poor season (which can be mostly explained by multiple injuries, sickness, and admittedly childish suspensions) he's the best young player in the country who will probably go to Juve next year and elevate his game with higher caliber players surrounding him. Why not give him valuable experience playing behind Candreva.

    Goetze is not world class. He's an above avg player who has been cultivated along with many other young German players into the national team at a young age. 50 caps at 23. I wonder if even players like Baggio, Totti, and De Piero could dream of that.

    Please, you've dismissed both Berardi and Bernardeschi multiple times (along with Gabbs and Zaza). Don't let me go back through your past comments and find them.
     
  13. Nek Sanalet

    Nek Sanalet Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Dec 30, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #463 Nek Sanalet, Apr 1, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
    Balotelli was always more media hype than actual hardcore promise. Yes, he had a great run during the Euros in 2012, but that is his only major accomplishment. He has never scored more than 14 goals in a season. Berardi has already eclipsed that twice at 21 years of age (with far less talent on his squad, and with the added responsibility of being a leader). Balotelli never had blistering pace, was far from clinical in front of goal, and never tracked back and helped on defense (two of which Berardi far exceeds him at). Mario's biggest problem is that he never settled with a perennial mid table team like Torino or Udinese. His ceiling was always at that level scoring 15-16 goals a season. Instead he kept going from big team to big team and doing even less. The truth is that if he would of went the provincial route, he might still be playing for the national team as a valuable contributor. That is probably the real tragedy in the end.

    But no...his promise was always hype, regardless of his personality problems. I would argue he was only slightly better than Zaza overall before his recent nose dive.
     
  14. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Since when was Cassano actually performing though? 2004? In 2012 he wasn't at his best. His attitude also ruined his talent as well.
     
  15. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    By the way you say Giovinco plays for MLS which is a rubbish league, and I want to ask does the league make a difference really? Look at del piero's stats when he played in serie a and the year he spent in serie b. They weren't that different in terms of number of goals scored.
     
  16. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    If we have a truly stellar talent, he will be called up and given his shot irrespective of age. Look at Balotelli. During his better years, he was leading the attack and I don't even think he had even reached 23 years of age. I don't buy the argument that the NT doesn't call up young players. We have a number of adequate, but not great, youth players on this side (Perin, De Sciglio, Rugani, Florenzi, Soriano, Jorginho, Zaza, Insigne, Bernardeschi....). I suppose some of those guys will develop into fine players, perhaps world class. However, no one on that list currently screams world class player such that he is a "no brainer" start for the NT.

    Berardi will get his chance. He may have gotten a full call up this go around had he not been hurt. That said, even you concede he isn't exactly having the best season.

    Goetze is absolutely a world class player. Bayern paid 37M for him despite him being in his early 20s. He scored the winning goal in a World Cup final. I suspect he will command a massive transfer fee this season. I'm not sure what your definition of world class is, but he meets mine.

    I've never dismissed Berardi or Bernardeschi. WTF are you talking about? Zaza is a decent player; certainly not world class. I have no problem with him on this squad; but if he is leading your attack, you have an issue. Same with Gabbs. He hasn't broken into the Napoli starting rotation and he is supposed to lead Italy? Get real. These are young, promising players. Forgive me if I haven't already incoronated them as Pele's second coming yet.
     
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  17. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    With Balotelli, the relatively low goal tally has to do with the fact that he has always played for major sides where he had to split his time with other guys. He would have surely scored a lot more if he played for Sassuolo like Berardi. I disagree that his ceiling would be 15 to 16 goals at a mid-table side. He has an awesome physical presence and could be exceptional on the ball at times. If he actually cultivated that by not being a petulant child I have no doubt that he could have been a world class player. Sadly, I don't think we will ever see that.
     
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  18. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Darmian doesn't get any injury-excuse-love? How about Van Gaal's bias? Before he even got to the club, Van Gaal had already determined that he would only ever be a back up. Claim can be made that his excellent play early in the season earned him the spot. He then had one really bad game and was promptly dropped, then injuries happened. Great way to nurture a talent Van Gaal, but he's always hated Italian's, so should we be surprised. Darmian should leave Manure asap!

    Louis van Gaal caused some consternation among Manchester United fans in a press conference ahead of their game against San Jose Earthquakes by saying Matteo Darmian had been signed "for the second position" at right-back, belowAntonio Valencia in the pecking order, per the Guardian.

     
  19. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    Of course the league makes a difference. Giovinco was an above-average striker in the Serie A. He never dominated the way he does in the MLS. That's why I would take his latest accomplishments with a grain of salt. This coming from someone who always wanted to see him succeed as a juventino.
     
  20. Rosay

    Rosay Member+

    May 7, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    The one that got deflected?
     
  21. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Just because it got deflected doesn't mean you take it away from him. That was seriously a world class goal.
     
  22. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    in 2012 he was the reason why italy even made it to the finals.
     
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  23. Rob_420

    Rob_420 Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Right on, the goal vs Ireland, the beautiful set up for Balo vs Germany, were 2 big moments. Helped as a creative outlet in the final third the whole tournament.
     
  24. Rosay

    Rosay Member+

    May 7, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I also think he will mature eventually and grab the world by the balls again. He just has to finish off this Serie A season strong, he's in the right mindset now he just has to start performing better
     
  25. Nek Sanalet

    Nek Sanalet Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Dec 30, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Gabbs is playing behind one of the two or three best strikers in the world right now. Of course he's not going to start. On almost any other Serie A team except Juve he would be leading the line. His mistake is going to Napoli. Blame his agent, family, advisors, etc, but if he stayed at Sampdoria last year, he would of easily obtained 20 goals for the season. Did anyone rate Eder above him in 2014-2015? It shows how a bad career choice can really affect your development in the game. Someone should of told him his chances of replacing an older established veteran in Higuain was probably not going to happening. I still maintain that he's far superior to Zaza and Pelle. Hopefully he chooses the right team this summer, and can resurrect his form.
     

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