Italia-spagna - 06/22/08

Italy, what a shame!
Spain through on penalties
EURO 2008: Italy lose 4-2 (0-0 after extra time). De Rossi and Di Natale miss

CHIELLINI MAGIC - Silva immediately puts his mark on the game in the second half, but Chiellini refuses to budge and there is no way through. The young Juventus players is doing overtime but he needs to make himself heard because his team is not filtering. In the 10th minute Torres muscles Panucci off the ball but his cross is cut out by Chiellini. Italy look ready to surrender. Then on 13' Camoranesi comes in for Perrotta. And the team seriously needs him. In the 16th minute he comes close to scoring but the outstanding Casillas intervenes with his left foot. With Fabregas and Cazorla (Xavi and Iniesta out) Spain has more possession of the ball, but Italy hang in there
http://english.gazzetta.it/More_sports/Primo_Piano/2008/06_Giugno/22/ita-spa.shtml

At leat we've proved we havd a great defense!

 

si ma tu non cercarle certe accuse.

la legge può anche stare come è, ma tu mettiti nei panni di un balotelli nato, cresciuto e vissuto da italiano al 100% non può partecipare nelle nazionali giovanili solo per una questione burocratica. ci sta che si lamenti.

una soluzione potrebbe essere che anche nei casi di affido a lungo termine presso una famiglia italiana i tempi per il ricevimento della cittadinanza siano ridotti fortemente.

1) viene in italia chi ha bisogno non chi scegliamo noi.

2) per quale motivo mussulmani e/o africani non contribuirebbero nulla all'economia e cultura italiana? chiunque lavori in italia da qualsiasi parte provenga e qualsiasi sia la sua religione o etnia contribuisce all'economia italiana. che il mondo stia diventando multiculturale è un fatto generale. spetta all'italia saper integrare gli immigrati per costruire la cultura italiana del nuovo millennio. anche la cultura italiana cambia nel tempo e progredisce.

Quel pericolo non esiste ed ha minori probabilità di accadere in italia rispetto agli stati uniti.

hai paura che i bianchi europei negli USA scompaiano?

dovresti ragionare sul fatto che si ha bisogno di questi allarmi assolutamente ingiustificati per anche considerare il tuo punto di vista.

si però tu devi evitare certi (pre)giudizi a priori sulle etnie e culture non europee. non è che alì che viene dal marocco o dal senegal ha colpa di quello che il singolo estremista che viene dall'arabia saudita fa in una qualsiasi parte del mondo.

 

E perché non guarda lui ai suoi amici in Svizzera che devono aspettare anche più tempo e che devono superare esami ancora più difficili per acquistare la cittadinanza svizzera? Non c'è paragone.

Non me lo dire: "Ci sono alcuni lavori che gli italiano non fanno più", vero? Ma per favore....

Il mondo non sta diventando multiculturale - L'EUROPA sta diventando multiculturale. C'è una grande differenza. E secondo me, il più "multiculturale" che diventiamo, meno diversi che siamo (perché se son tutti multiculturale...).
Il multiculturalismo per definizione è anti-italiano.

Ingiustificato? Davvero? È semplice matematica. Europei = senza figli, extraeuropei = molti figli. Tra cinquanta/settant'anni = maggioranza extra europea. Non è una proiezione, non è una paura ingiustificata - è una REALTA' che si deve riconoscere.

Ma che dici? Questi paesi arabi non accetterebbero mai, MAI un flusso migratorio dall'Europa. Non è pregiudizio, è la verità. Pure in Giappone, mi ricordo quando un ministro del governo aveva annunciato che "il Giappone è un paese monorazziale ed intende a rimanere tale."

 

è un pò inutile, e perciò futile, sperare di poter fermare la naturale evoluzione della società.

fra 100 anni la cultura italiana sarà differente ma sarà sempre cultura italiana.

la seconda generazione di extraeuropei sarà italiana per molti tratti tra cui pure la tendenza a fare pochi figli.

per cui le proiezioni paranoico-matematiche dei difensori della purezza della cultura italiana lasciano il tempo che trovano e mostrano più che altro le loro irrazionali paure.

son discorsi che ho avuto occasione di sentire in vecchie interviste alla gente del nord sull'immigrazione dal sud italia negli anni 50.

eh si in effetti Torino e Milano son piene di torinesi e milanesi con genitori o nonni che venivano dal sud. rimangono torino e milano, diverse dalle torino e milano del 1900 ma sempre torino e milano.

lascia perdere certe fobie.

lascia che le parti si invertano, che il mondo arabo diventi ricco e l'europa povera e poi vedresti.

la prospettiva di una ipotetica futura italia "monorazziale" non mi esalta per niente.

 

Please present examples of extreme multiculturalism actually "working". Just about every example of extreme multiculturalism has been a disaster. Just look at the KKK and black people they abused in the US, the long history of troubles in South Africa, the clashes in Australia between exact opposite cultures.

Just like communism, how many times do people have to support "trying again" a stupid idea before they figure out its a recipe for disaster? Why the so called “progressives” seem to think that a Europe/Africa/Muslim/Gypsy multiculturalism would be some sort of "utopia" is beyond me. There has already been clashes recently between people in Napoli and those in the mass gypsy camps, this should tell you something of what you should expect to see.

Even in other European countries, like in the UK it doesn’t work, unless you think race riots are “progressive“; note that this also includes race riots between Arabs and Black people, so the failure of multiculturalism is not simply an issue of xenophobic Europeans. The reality is very different from the "ideal";
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Birmingham_riots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham_riots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_Riots

 

eia*, JJF, whatever. it's not like I am really thrilled at the prospect of discussing multiculturalism and related xenophobic reactions.

Ne ho discusso parecchio altrove. conosco le posizioni e opinioni della destra anti-multiculturalista, non sono d'accrdo e non ho una grande opinione personale delle loro (vostre) idee. they svck big time.

* eia = si (sardinian)

 

Non sono d'accordo che sia inevitabile.
Le culture certamente crescono e evolvono, ma questa non è evoluzione, è la distruzione della cultura italiana. Il multiculturalismo non è italiano.
Vedremo cosa direte quando la lingua italiana non esiste più.

Oh sì, come i turchi in Germania o gli arabi in Olanda! Si vede!

In ogni caso non è vero che hanno le tendenza di fare pochi figli, anzi, sono gli italiano a non avere figli. Ti ricordi il 1o Gennaio quando parlavano dei primi bimbi del 2008 un Italia?

Che, il prima era rom, il secondo egiziano, ed il terzo pachistano, forse. Non simbolizza secondo te un aumento straordinario nel percentuale degli stranieri?



s

Ma va. Esiste una grandissima differenza tra immigrazione Sud-Nord ed immigrazione extra-europea. I meridionali sono italiani come quelli del Nord, difficilmente puoi convincere una persona che un cinese che vive a Milano integra come un siciliano a Torino. E certamente non paragona al flusso di arabi, mussulmani, ecc ecc che parlano lingue straniere, hanno religioni completamente differenti, e non pensano affatto all'integrazione.

È semplicimente una realtà. Non ho nulla contro questa gente, ma preferico non continuare ad accettare immigrati in Italia che potenzialmente potrebbero (che faranno, altro che) distruggere la cultura italiana.

Puoi dire quello che vuoi, non sarà la stessa Europa. Non sarà l'Europa in generale. Vedremo, vedremo.... E di certo non sarà bello. Questi non vengono in Europa per diventare italiani, francesi, ecc, vengono per sfruttare i diritti e la libertà che godiamo. Se ne fregano di noi.

Beh, l'UAE che sarebbe, povero? Il Bahrain? L'Arabia Saudita?
La differenza è che questi paese sono inospitabili. Loro non vogliono stranieri.

Contento tu, ma tra cinquant'anni vedremo come sarà l'Italia multiculturale, multirazziale, 'tolerante' che vedi tu in mente.

 

Much better though than what you've been envisioning, my good friend.

Personally, I am frightful of the future.

Let's see how long Italian culture and language last at this rate.

 

I remember that. That bitch girl tried to kidnap the woman's baby.
And it wasn't an isolated event - it happened a few days later in Catania too.

 

Yep, crazy stuff. Why anybody would want to steal somebodys baby I do not know. I don't see how sardus can claim anti-multiculturalism is just to do with the right wingers while from the in practise examples available, its average, everyday people who are outraged by the damage and divisions it causes within society.

http://www.france24.com/en/20080514-gypsy-encampments-torched-near-naples-agency

Thank god Berlusconi is in office and not a Marxist.

 

Good call miss cleo.

Viva Spain

 

Ciao Austria, addio Europeo
La Nazionale ha lasciato Baden per far ritorno in Italia: il charter è decollato alle 16.50 direzione Malpensa. Un'ora e mezzo di volo, poi un nuovo decollo alla volta di Roma. L'Hotel Schloss Weikersdorf ospiterà la Germania se dovesse arrivare in finale


http://www.gazzetta.it/Speciali/Europei/2008/Primo_Piano/2008/06_Giugno/23/addio.shtml

 

I still wonder why fans of other teams feel the burning urge to gloat on our forum. Please go back to wherever it is you came from... stating the obvious can get very annoying.

 

usually the gloaters are the ones know their team managed a win (a pk win at that, but a win nonetheless) and also know their time is limited in this tourney. So take advantage now...
Spain didn't impress me all that much, and this is not to say that we played any better, but the game needed to end somehow, and pks is the way the game is decided. Good luck to Spain with any of the remaining 3 teams...from the looks of it (and by going by yesterday's game) the duo of Villa and Torres can be locked down and if a team does that, it seems, with a decent attack, can easily beat Spain. Unfortunately for us, our attack was nothing. However, a look at how the Russians blew apart the Dutch on Saturday...I would be a little concerned. To be honest, I was more afraid of the Russians than the Spaniards. And by some remote chance they should pass Russia, wel...lol...Germany?...Come on.

By the way, Villa is a **********...plain and simple. There were more dives in our box yesterday than in the upcoming Olympic games...

 

The sad part is that we managed to foil David Villa and Fernando Torres and have the two best scoring chances of the game despite playing like crap. I don't get how anybody could say that the Spaniards were so much better... unless one decides who wins and loses based on possession (and for all their vaunted possession, they gave it up quite easily in the midfield). I'm still raw over the fact that with the defending that was going on, Pirlo may very well have been the tiebreaker between the two teams. I still find it pathetic that Pirlo had to pick up a necessary yellow card AGAINST A TEAM WITH ONLY 10 MEN. WTF?!

I know that I wouldn't fancy Spain's chances against Russia. I think we'll see Germany - Russia in the finals.

 

Congrats on the win. Maybe you should enjoy and party with the rest of your country instead of wasting your time in here. Spain was just as bad as italy on this night. Long shots and not many good opportunities. You won on PK congrats. Good luck with Russia you will need it. Russia IMO is the team to beat and if they play like they did against Holland they will shred you.

 

Yet somehow people will say that we were the ones who were notorious for diving in yesterday's game.

 

I'll be forthcoming and say that I thought some of those dives were real fouls when I first watched the game (I must have been pissed at Grosso) but having watched it again, I have to say: what a disgusting display! I'm glad the referee had the balls to give Villa a yellow card for diving in the box.

We also did some diving, but definitely not to the extent that the Spaniards were doing it. It was almost like they were frustrated by our defense so they started looking for penalties.

And people only latch on to us diving (when in reality we don't do it nearly as often as some other national sides) because of our success. It all boils down to jealousy.

 

Another PK loss, this game was a carbon copy of the 98 loss to France, with Italy absorbing and eventually creating the best chances only to lose on PKs with some poor pks after the goaltender makes a save.

Don's strategy was good however the tactics and the formation didn't suit it. A 4-4-1-1 with more width would have been better. We just didn't have the personel to play 4-3-1-2. The trequartista must have confidence with the ball and vision and Perrotta has neither. Cassano was left alone on the flank trying to slalom by 3 defenders, despite his great dribbling he needs to play off people in space not trying to thread passes between 3 defenders. At least if he was in the middle he could have the whole field to work with. The real key ot this match was the ineffectiveness of the Roma midfield to retain possesion or to start up a decent counter. Aquilani was timid, hesitating with the ball, not to mention being second to the ball most of the time. You would hae expected much better chemistry between him, De Rossi and Perrotta. However all 3 including Ambro were great defensively. Toni was just out of sorts, but again he had no support even when he started winning the long balls in the 2nd half. However his frustration and desperation to make something happen very well might have taken away a goal from Grosso. Camo and Di Natale both offered a spark and were probably the most effective offensively, but Di NAtale just didn't have when he walked to the spot. Btw why did Buffon elect to go 2nd, Spain have great PK takers, so by them going first they put the pressure on Italy to score from the start, not to mention the kicks were taken in front of the Spanish fans.

Italy were beasts defensively and needed that extra bit in front of goal when the opportunities came but this was the problem throughout with this squad they just didn't click in the final third. As it turned out this team never had the cohesion to make the break throughs when needed and it i frustrating because all we needed was one.

 

Especially Germany who are always depicted as a hard working, honest and fair team which is true for the most part. But there is a reason the dive became known as the Klinsmann.

Btw the Spanish did dive enough but the yellow on Villa was harsh considering he slipped.

 

and defense and counterattack is only wrong when we do it. if romania or greece or USA or liverpool or whoever does it, it's ok, not beautiful to see, but acceptable. it's a tactic. we do it once and it becomes a disgrace for football, evil itself materialized in the soccer pitch.
some people seems to need good and evil to exist in fooball and they decided we apparently play the part of the evil. maybe they need a black and white approach because they cannot grasp the different tones of grey?

Don't know. But you are spot on on the likely cause of this disease...

 

Great, balanced analysis! Please post this in the Euro 2008 forum, I beg of you. I can't stand those gloating Spaniards and neutrals who somehow think that the beautiful game won yesterday when in reality Spain played as defensively as we did later on in the game and engineered a virtual stalemate.

 

Yeah, I can see how he slipped, but he had done it before (if I recall correctly) so I see it as a kind of make-up call.

And sardus_pater, I really agree with your post about how people need to have scapegoats in football. Even if Italy became Arsenal (or Holland) overnight, people would still cling to the old stereotypes and feel that they somehow invalidate everything that we've achieved as a footballing nation.

 

If so, then why did we shoot in front of the Spainsh fans?