http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet...ional/internationalAfricaHeadline_temp/1/1/7/ Lebanon has started pumping water from the Wazzani river, which also feeds the Jordan river, one of Israel's main water sources. The US has been putting lots of pressure on them to not implement this project, and now that it is done we are desperatly pulling on the reigns to prevent Israel from invading Lebanon again. Israel has been very angry at this project; Ariel Sharon has called it a "cause for war" and Israeli aircraft have been busy the last few days angrily buzzing the site. Hezbollah is warning Israel not to invade, or face a powerful response.
While generally I'm not in the habit of defending the Arab states, if the G&M article is accurate then Lebanon has the right to use the water that goes through their land. If Israel cannot maintain its own higher standard of living without invading another country to reclaim natural resources, it's got bigger problems than a potential water shortage.
Don't the Israelis live next to this rather large body of water called the Mediterannean? Can't they pump the water inland? It's not like they're Switzerland or Mongolia or Arizona...
The water in the Mediterannean is Salt Water. Actually I would like to see Nevada do this to California. Or have New Mexico drain the Rio Grande before it gets to Mexico.
Desalization is done but it is very expensive and does not produce enough water for agriculture which is what causes these disputes.
Water rights over frontiers are an old and established feature of international law. It basically says, unless I'm badly mistaken, that you can't screw with the people downstream. Egypt and Pakistan (especially Pakistan, what with sharing rivers with their good friends in India) have had issues with this in the past. In any case, the precedents should pretty clearly determine who's in the right about this. My guess is that it's Israel, but I could easily be mistaken.
> Ah, well then the Israelis will just have to buck > up and pay for their water, I guess. Desalization might work for drinking water, but that water will cost more than any crops you can grow from it. And it certainly won't fill swimming pools. Also, I heard it tastes bad. Water is a big reason why the Golan Heights will never be returned, and why the Palestinians will never be given their own independent state.
The issue is, I believe, one of need. If Israel already uses substantially more water per capita than Lebanon does (as the G&M story says), than Lebanon should have the right to divert more of it. "We use more" is not enough to justify Lebanon not being able to provide water for its citizens to drink.
Why dont they just buy water then instead of always calling a military action? It is not like Israel is Lebanon. They are wealthier.
> Why dont they just buy water then instead of > always calling a military action? There is no way Lebanon would agree. The government's hold on the nation is weak, especially in the south where the water is supposed to come from. What would they do if they were told their water was being sold to their worst enemy, with the money going to a government they only tolerate? The people there are very sick of living in a desert while seeing across the border a bunch of active, prosperous farms. They want some of that action. And if it also means Israel is in trouble, well, I don't think the southern Lebanese would be upset.
I meant buy it from other countries. Hell buy it from Turkey. Hehehe. We have a lot of surplus thanx to the goddamn rains through out the whole summer.
Good 'ol water rights.....how many wars have been fought over them? Is it really wise to take water when the downstream country from you is more powerful than you are?
Ok, here's a summary of the situation as I've been following it. 1: The general rule is: You can pump water from a source used by a downstream neighbor, but you can't divert the water supply. 2: Whether a significant amount of pumping amounts to "diversion" is a question that I haven't seen a satisfactory answer to. 3: If you read the various articles, you will hear mention of an "agreement" of some sort. This is the 1955 Johnston Agreement. It's a misnomer because Lebanon never ratified the agreement. The way they interpret it, however, it would allow them to pump the amount of water they are pumping, so they quite hypocritically say that the agreement represents an "understanding" between the parties even though the never ratified it (for that would mean reaching an agreement with a state that you still haven't recognized). 4: This is not the first time Lebanon has pumped water from the river. The amount regularly increases. 5: The current amount being pumped does not really harm Israeli interests. 6: The U.S. has stepped in with its diplomats. Basically they have confirmed that Lebanon is using this for drinking water, not irrigation. The U.S. is trying to frame this as them "resolving" the dispute. But I don't think Lebanon ever planned to use it for irrigation anyway. 7: Generally, the principles behind riparian rights involve a) Fair use and b) Consulting with your neighbor. What this is really about is that Lebanon is trying to show that it can stand up to "the Zionist entity" and Israel feeling like it has to do some posturing so it looks like Lebanon isn't humiliating it. Right now, there is no problem, and Sharon is a complete moron if he considers this grounds for war. Israel does have concerns, however, if Lebanon continues to increase the amount of water that it takes, and Israel wants to make sure that it has something to stand on. Arguably, regardless of what is at stake, there was an obligation to consult and negotiate. Civil neighbors do that all the time. But of course, in the Middle East, nothing is that simple. There is also a larger issue here, at least from my perspective. Israel completely withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 with no peace treaty or ANY conditions in return. Since then, Israel has been repeatedly shelled by Hezbollah, Syria still occupies the country, and now Lebanon wants to increase pumping of water from a river they share. Basically, Israel did absolutely everything the UN demanded of it, is getting screwed, and the UN now shrugs it's shoulders. As of now, it's no big deal. Israel is safer out of Lebanon than inside it. The north of Israel is sparsely populated, so the Hezbollah rockets don't hit anything, and right now the pumping of the river doesn't really hurt Israel. But if Hezbollah increases it's arsenal, and the pumping increases, look out. This is also not the incentive you want to offer if you expect Israel to make any concessions to the Palestinians, which the UN does indeed expect. Unlike the northern border, Israel's largest cities are comfortably within the range of Palestinian weaponry. As a side note, it is tough for me to blame anything on "Lebanon" the country. Lebanon is essentially Syria's b!+@# and has practically ceased to exist as a separate nation. As for the Mediterannean Sea, Israel is a leader in desalination technology, but no one has figured out yet how to turn sea water into drinking water or even water for agricultural use. Right now, there is technology to make use of brackish well water, which there's quite a bit of in the area. I'm not sure if this can be used for drinking water or for agricultural use. There has been some talk of a "Med Dead" Canal which would basically create a huge canal between the Mediterannean Sea and the Dead Sea. This could lead to more useable water. The problems are a) It would basically bisect the country, and any bridges would be prime terrorist targets, b) no one really knows what the environmental effects would be and c) It is prohibitively expensive.
"The Israel government does not dispute that its people consume much more water per capita than any of their neighbours. However, it argues that the new Lebanese water projects threaten the long-established and delicately balanced regional status quo." Yeah, these Lebanese who all of a sudden want to start being able to GROW SOME CROPS? That goes against the status quo of arid Arab desert vs. Israeli green fields. Unconscionable... From a different article, with a few more facts... "The project brings to about 350 million cubic feet Lebanon's share from the Hasbani and Wazzani rivers in southern Lebanon. A 1955 U.S. proposal said Lebanon should get 1.2 billion cubic feet from the Hasbani and Wazzani. Lebanon has based subsequent claims on that proposal and hopes to provide water to some dozen parched border villages. But Peled, the Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman, said Lebanon had refused to accept the proposals in 1955 and they never formed the basis of an agreement." Hm, so this would only bring them up to taking about 25% of the water from the river that is rightfully theirs? http://news.findlaw.com/ap_stories/i/1107/10-16-2002/20021016200023_12.html And finally, from a yet different source... "A report by the U.N. Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia (ESCWA) this month said Lebanon had not broken any international agreements but said the row should be resolved diplomatically." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021016/wl_nm/mideast_water_dc_1 Seems like an open and shut case to me. Shocker that Sharon does not agree. IIR, Southern plantation owners couldn't believe how badly their slaves wanted to upset thein nice antebellum status quo.
We already buying water from Turkey. Any way the average water amount for a Lebanonie citizen is 2000 cubic meters and for Israeli citizen is 300 cubic cmeters.
That's untrue, evaporative desalination produces very pure water. You can also freeze ice out of brine and get potable water from the ice. Both take alot of energy and even stainless steel gets corroded by saltwater. That's the rub. The technology is pretty simple but expensive. To give you an idea how large the energy cost is, I estimate that a 500 megawatt electrical power plant (pretty good size) can have its energy used for desalination to produce 10,000 gallons of water per minute, a piddling amount.
I vaguely remember a story about Arabian peasants in Israel who have been cut off from fresh water by the Israeli government. Israel should stop whining. For some reason they think they have more right at just about anything than their (muslim) Arabian inhabitants or neighbours. Even though they are a bunch of *********************s that's not how it works.
Post of the year! That should be the model to which all posts in this forum should adhere to. A vaguely remembered "story" punctuated with no facts or hard eveidence to justify the posters prejudices. Where is arefmusa anyways?