Israeli minister for ethnic cleansing

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Sardinia, May 4, 2003.

  1. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/p...2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
    Basically a minister of israeli government asking for ethnic cleansing.
    Simply unbelievable... :rolleyes:
     
  2. Nate505

    Nate505 Member

    Feb 10, 2002
    Colorado
    While one can voice objections to this plan, I'm not sure how this equates to ethnic cleansing......could you elaborate?

    Not to mention, does the Tourism minister have much sway in Israeli policy?
     
  3. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    No quotes from the transportation minister? He's feeling left out.
     
  4. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    Minister = A high officer of state appointed to head an executive or administrative department of government. (ie a part of a government)

    It seems as if for someone israel is someway uncriticizable.

    Nate, of course he doesn't say literally what he's asking for but just read the six stages proposed.

    - Israel will use its military and political power to destroy all the Palestinian terror infrastructure. The refugee camps will be torn down. Terrorists will be deported.

    Who says this is a terrorist this is not? For many palestinians are by definition terrorists.

    The refugee camps destroyed... and the ppl living there?

    The international community will allocate resources to complete the population exchange that began in 1948, with refugees getting citizenship in various countries.

    "population exchange" is an euphemism for forced transport.
    Do you think that palestinians will leave their homes spontaneously amused by the wonderful plan of mr. elan?

    The most laughable thing is that he dares also ask the help of international community for such crap.

    Anyway you can here his project because he should have left for USA to expose this plan.

    He has close ties with fundamentalist and evangelical Christians and through them, has been exerting pressure on congressmen and officials to persuade Bush's administration to drop the idea of a Palestinian state.


    p.s. Ben, are you an apocalyptic evangelical? Just wondering... ;)
     
  5. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
  6. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    Re: Re: Israeli minister for ethnic cleansing

    Relax yourself with a good puzzle.

    http://www.allegrohuskies.com/puzzle_monkey3.html
     
  7. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    Re: Re: Re: Israeli minister for ethnic cleansing

    I'm quite relaxed to be truthful. What puzzles me is your vendetta against Israel. A guy says he wants to root out Palestinian terrorists, and you claim this means ethnic cleansing? Oh boy, somebody wake Arafat up and explain that Hamas are the real victims here.
     
  8. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    Pro-Israelis on here,
    Why bother defending this guy? Do you really see this as something NOT to be upset about?

    Unbelievable hypocricy.
     
  9. Maczebus

    Maczebus New Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    The ability of the 'right' on these board to support certain subjects, simply because not doing so would show compassion and compassion implies certain liberal/left-wing tendencies - is quite remarkable.

    Whilst people can see the Palestinian terrorists as true dogs not fit for Korean consumption - but at the same time don't see the slightest bit wrong with the Israeli take on it all - there will always be a Palestinian/Israeli problem. War on terror or no war on terror.
     
  10. Barnash_haviv

    Barnash_haviv New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Israel
    That's your very narrow point of view,maczebus.

    This minister is from a right wing party that Sharon was forced to take to his coalition because Sardinia's beloved Mitzna doesn't want to get into the coalition.
     
  11. Maczebus

    Maczebus New Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    Well I specialise in them.

    And I didn't think it was narrow really. Simplistic maybe - but nonetheless true.
    Whilst there are double standards around, there will be people dissatisfied with these double standards.
    Where there is dissatisfaction, there will be people willing to make their point, and in that area of the world, we know all too well how that tends to happen.

    Hell, if I'm being honest I'll fall into Karl's left-wing template and be really despondant and pessimistic.
    I really can't see it ever working out - it's been kicking off there for centuries/millennia. I really have difficulty in believing that this wonderful new 'road-map' to peace, will sort everything/anything out.
     
  12. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    My fault? :)

    Poor sharon...

    Barnash, IIRC Labour party has left the government because of the funding of settlements, right?

    I think Elon wants quickly what sharon & others pursue patiently but inexorably.

    Simply Labour Party couldn't bear this attitude anymore.

    There is a line where i switch from proisraeli to propalestinian and viceversa, +- the 1967 borders.

    This makes me nearer to PeaceNow or GushShalom rather than LabP in this issue though sure I like Mitzna.

    p.s. Barnash can you tell me which party Elon is from? And which percentage got that party in the elections?
     
  13. Barnash_haviv

    Barnash_haviv New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Israel
    Not your fault, Mitzna's fault.(BTW, He just resingned)
    That were Labors offical reason for quitting,it didn't bothered them before.(BTW, it's not founding settelments,it's benefits to the settelers)

    Elon party is called National Union and the got about 6.5% of the votes
     
  14. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Israeli minister for ethnic cleansing

    I think it's a result of his pitiful football club.
    I'm just worried that our Sardinian friend will make a one-way trip to a Tel Aviv cafe. We need to get his mind on the beautiful game. He should start here http://www.mlsnet.com
     
  15. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    Thank you Barnash. :)

    Control them Barnash cos they don't act for the best of Israel (democracy and moral integrity).
     
  16. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Israeli minister for ethnic cleansing

    Pitiful football club? How dare you? :D

    Anyway just to understand better what mr elon implies.

    He says.
    The international community will allocate resources to complete the population exchange that began in 1948, with refugees getting citizenship in various countries.

    He refers to 1948, the so called Nakbah.
    http://www.palestine-net.com/geography/cleansed/

    418 arab villages destroyed.
    Many hundreds of thousands of ppl displaced.

    Ever asked yourself why there are so many palestinian refugee camps?

    Map.
    http://www.palestine-net.com/geography/gifs/cleansed.gif
    (click on the link to see the pic)
     
  17. Nate505

    Nate505 Member

    Feb 10, 2002
    Colorado
    I'm not pro or anti Israeli. I honestly detest both Israel and Palestine, and wish they could all kill each other off.

    I was just questioning how that plan equates to ethnic cleansing.
     
  18. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    If Israel is trying to commit ethnic cleansing, they're not doing a very good job of it.
     
  19. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    No kidding. The Israelis better start having more kids too or they'll be outnumbered in their own country.
     
  20. Dan

    Dan New Member

    That's wonderful. And sick. I would imagine your comment was a misguided attempt at humor, but please don't forget these are real people you're talking about - not figures on TV.

    I hate political correctness - but would it be so hard to avoid wishing for people to "kill eachother off"?
     
  21. Nate505

    Nate505 Member

    Feb 10, 2002
    Colorado
    It's called a 'tongue in cheek' comment. I would have expected the average 8th grader to pick up on it......so I'm not surprised you didn't.
     
  22. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    I guess you have not seen how these guys live in the Gaza Strip? Homes? That would lead to the term home owner, but the term "inmate" would be best served there.

    International help could have been used for years now. The fact that they live in these conditions is the same reason why terrorism is a cash crop there. The seed has not only been seeded, but cultivated.

    Who is a terrorist?
    Well, either you are with us (in peace) or against us (in continued terrorism).

    Do any of you think the USA would stand for years of terrorism? Look what happened after one major attack.

    Links? We need no stinking links!
     
  23. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    THE WALL.

    http://www.gush-shalom.org/thewall/index.html (map)

    The Wall is the concrete manifestation of the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and yet another method of carrying out a policy of confiscating more Palestinian land. If Israel would genuinely be interested in the security of it's citizens, and in separation from the Palestinian people, it would have erected the wall on the "Green Line"(the border that existed before the 1967 war). But this is not the case. The majority of the planned wall cuts deep into Palestinian territory, incorporating into Israel about 10%-15% of the occupied territories, a huge portion of very fertile land full of olive groves, greenhouses, vegetable fields and water resources. It will cut off villages and towns from their farmland, centres of trade, education and culture. It will intensify the ongoing environmental destruction and degradation taking place in the occupied territories. It is also an attempt to legitimise the Israeli settlement policy. In short, it is intended to be a death blow to any possibility of a viable Palestinian state.


    The Evil Wall - Uri Avnery.

    http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/article248.html

    The whole Israeli public supports the Separation Wall. It has no idea what it is supporting. One has to come to the place in order to understand all the implications of the project.

    First of all, it has to be said unequivocally: this wall has nothing to do with security.

    It is being sold to the Israeli public as a "security fence". The army calls it an "obstacle". The public, which of course yearns for security, is buying the goods eagerly. At long last something is being done!

    And indeed, the idea looks quite simple. Even the most unsophisticated person can grasp it. It seems almost self-evident: a Palestinian who wants to blow himself up in Israel has first of all to cross the pre-1967 border, the so-called Green Line. If a wall or fence is built along the Green Line, the terrorists will not be able to come. No more attacks, no more suicide bombers.

    But logic says that if this had indeed been a security-wall, it would have been built directly along the Green Line. All Israelis (except the settlers) would be on one side of it (the western one) and all the Palestinians on the other. The line should be as straight and as short as possible, because it will need inspecting, patrolling and defending. The shorter it is, the easier and cheaper it will be to defend it. That is the logic of security.

    But in reality, except for short sections, the wall is not being built on the Green Line, nor in a straight line. On the contrary, it meanders like a river, twisting and turning, approaching the Green Line and receding from it.

    Not by accident
    . The bed of a river is dictated by nature. The water has to obey gravity. But the design of the wall has no connection with nature. The bulldozers are quite indifferent to nature, they cut through it remorselessly. What then determines this design?

    Standing near it, the answer is clearly visible. The sole consideration that dictates its path is the settlements. The wall twists like a snake according to a simple principle: most of the settlements must remain on the western side of the wall, i.e. eventually to be absorbed into Israel.
     
  24. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    Cry me a river. That's what you get when you try to invade somebody and they whoop your ass.
    "Palestinian land"? You mean the West Bank? Ahh, well that was simply part of Jordan in 1967, making anyone living in the West Bank Jordanian. The Israeli's threw the invaders back and took some ground to make their borders more defensible. I guess they got tired of being invaded.

    None of this would have happened had the Arab states accepted the UN partition plan of 1948. Had they done this, Israel would be a mere shadow of itself today. I really can't stress this enough.

    This entire problem stems out of Arab belligerence. The modern Israeli/palestinian crisis is double sided coin, with each side making mistakes. But there would be no Palestine if it were not for the desire to destroy Israel. Forgive me for not shedding a tear.
     
  25. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    The "who invaded who" argument could lead you to unpleasant discoveries if you do it from a neutral point of view and basing it on actual facts.

    The UN hasn't ceased to act with 1948 partition plan, why don't we ask for the respect of all the UN decisions?

    There's also something regarding 1967 borders and what Israel should do (no US veto).
     

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