Is Zidane the most overrated old generation footballer ever?

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by JoCryuff98, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    After researching a lot on Zidane and the matches he played, I’ve come to this conclusion that he was incredibly overrated as a player who’s legacy hinges on those 2 goals he scored against Brazil, despite not even being the best player for France. Zidane’s club career for a player of his calibre is so overrated and he really didn’t do anything great for Juventus or Madrid. Zidane was arguably a better player for Bordeaux than he was at Juventus or Madrid tbh.
     
  2. C.C.

    C.C. New Member

    Code Geass FC
    Portugal
    Apr 14, 2017
    I will repply because the subject of Zidane and his "legacy" (that is higly praised by adepts) is something that intrigue me a lot since a few years. Is a true case study.

    I used to have a percection that Zidane was top 5/10 of all time. One day I've saw a all time Europe squad in a wiki of pes stats or something I guess, the author gave the "star player" to Zidane with a squad that include Cruyff, Platini, Puskás, Beckenbauer. That was the moment that I get questionating that maybe he is overrated. I've decided research since then.

    Every time that I've research his carrer, more closely and objectively, I've realized that the "star" is just to good to be true, and I don't know, being very honest, how a player can be so rated with a peak that is not superior to players like Rivaldo, Figo, Nedved, Ronaldinho or Henry.

    Aside his games, there also the individuals awards. Zidane only won 1 Ballon d'Or in a year that wasn't the best player of any competition that he parcipated in that year (Serie A, WC, European Competitions). Zidane doesn't show consistency during his Serie A and La Liga times (In Spain, specially, he was foreign player of the year just once, and appeared in the best XI just once). Zidane was only two times best french of the year, I repeat, TWO!! For someone that is regarded top 5/10 of all time, is very poor, not to say shamed. Zidane did not dominated his own era to justify a place in top 10.

    My hobby is classic football and I see Zidane as top 35 being nice. To be honest, I even think that Henry was superior or more dominant than Zidane in their peaks years. I just want to understand how the idea of Zidane being top 10 of all time emerged in the mind of people.
     
  3. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Zidane overrated - huge laughhhh
     
  4. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Yes. When you watch his matches, you see plenty of mistakes, but also some moments of brilliant skill. There are plenty of other all-time great midfielders that have fewer or similar numbers of mistakes but just as much brilliant skill. Zidane has been elevated over many of those players, because of France’s success in his era, alongside the related fact that Zidane had a few really big moments (World Cup finals goals, the really great CL final goal). Obviously, Zidane was a significant factor in France winning so much, and he’s certainly a great player, but the argument for him to be top 10 all time would be extremely thin. IMO, he’s perhaps not even top 20 (for me, that depends on how much you weigh those aforementioned big moments. He probably makes the top 20 if you weigh big moments very heavily). As I’ve argued before, I think Xavi is definitely superior to Zidane, for instance.
     
  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Completely agree (except for the part regarding Xavi being definitely better)I would say a favourable case could be made for either player.it is too close.
    zidane would make my top 10 all time playmaker list with only zico,maradona,platini definitely above him (in talent)
    Without his international legacy he would imo be in the same rank as laudrup and gheorge hagi
    It is frankly amazing that despite being a supremely gifted footballer he did not excel in any attribute that makes a world class playmaker Special (he was imo a clearly inferior passer to many playmakers in his own era i.e. R10,Rui costa,Paul scholes,guti etc)
     
  6. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Zidane is more entertaining, but Xavi is superior player without doubt.
     
  7. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Just watched the documentary where Lothar Matthäus , Ryan Giggs and Gary Lineker discussed the pros and cons of the the French greats .. Zidane v Platini .

    They decided Zidane was the greater player and Legend despite the infamous headbut .
     
  8. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Who cares lmfao. Almost everyone on this forum agrees Platini is the better overall player. Zidane only surpassed him in terms of dribbling skills and elegance.
     
  9. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Coz I'd sooner take the opinions of great players over some 20 year old who plays Fifa online ..

    Lothar even PLAYED against BOTH !!
     
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  10. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I never imposed my opinion on you and I don’t give a damn what you think. If you can’t respect it then take a hike Stones wanker.
     
  11. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    @TitoTata From the looks of it you never watched either of them play and you’re repeating other people’s opinions without having your own honest opinion. It’s a belief system that Zidane is considered the better player because he won the WC.
     
  12. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Ohhh the irony :)

    When you grow up you'll hopefully learn that if someone has a different opinion to you they are not automatically wrong / stupid / delusional/ a troll / a WUM ....

    You're just 20 yrs old so you possibly didn't even see Zidane play live on the telly .. so why do you think that your opinion is so important?
    ?

    For the record I've seen all the greats play live ( on telly ) and I even had the pleasure of seeing the marvellous Eusebio play in the FLESH albeit a meaningless testimonial ...

    I'm possibly one of the few around these parts who was around to enjoy England winning the World Cup being born in 1958 ..


    Anyways .... in my OPINION the best player I have ever seen play is ZIDANE. ..


    Regards
     
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  13. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    That's personal abuse .. incidentally.
     
  14. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You actually abused me by referring my as “20 yr old who plays FIFA online”.
     
  15. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Watching someone play on the live is irrelevant which is why there’s a thing called the “internet” for newer gen to watch old matches. I can guarantee that I’ve watched almost all of Zidane’s games and I found him overrated.
     
  16. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Well that's all fine and dandy .

    It's refreshing to know you've invested nearly a thousand hours of your time researching a player you clearly don't rate .... intriguing.
     
  17. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I never implied that he was a bad player. I found him entertaining to watch, but he doesn’t deserve the hype he gets. I researched and invested my time on him because he’s overrated by many people I’ve met on Bigsoccer and other forums. Also there’s a Zidane respect thread here on this forum but it’s not completed unfortunately, but his two seasons with Juventus was reviewed completely.
     
  18. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I was curious, what is it about Zidane that makes you place him at the top of your list? If possible, you might want to elaborate ...

    Also, if I may, what is your favorite performance from Zidane?
     
  19. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    ... and for that I apologise .

    Just hate to see him criticised.
     
  20. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Can we not turn on all the anger onto this guy :)

    IMG_4573.JPG
     
  21. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    What credit do the views of Garry Lineker or Giggs or Lotthar Matthaus have when their view is contradicted by the views of bigsoccer.com users.

    Who the hell are those names compared to bigsoccer users?

    p.s: I do not mean whatever such names say be decisive in a discussion. I am just emphasizing "who cares" part.
     
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  22. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Fabulous !
     
  23. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't know if he's most overrated ever, but I can see why he's considered overrated by many armchair historians. It does bother me a bit that many of the younger fans (judging by social media, etc) consider him top 3-5. A very common comment I see is that he's only behind Maradona and Pele, and Messi and CR7 are simply working up to his level.

    By this logic, if you can all it that, Zidane is overrated.
     
  24. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I would say Zidane is not the most overrated old generation footballer. That honour goes to Maradona. He is regularly marketed as "the guy who lifted poor side Argentina to World Cup glory." Some versions state Argentina was average side, some state poor. For whatever version here are the observations about that squad:
    • Valdano was the best foreign player of La Liga in the same season, 1985-86. He was the 2nd top scorer of the league. In Uefa cup 1984-85 and 1985-86, Valdano was playing in a team that ended up as champion, Valdano scored in both finals' leg games. Scored once in the 1986 WC final. Note that, La Liga had seperate prizes for “Best foreign player” and best spanish player back then, Valdano may be considered even the best player of La Liga 1985 - 86, only another Latin American Hugo Sanches outscored him in that season and the best spanish footballer of La - Liga 86 -86 was a right-midfielder of Real Madrid with 7 goals in 31 games while Valdano scored 16 in 32 games. Valdano would probably have been selected the best player of la liga in case they did not have seperate awards for locals and foreiners. In a sense, it can be said Maradona had the best player of La Liga in that world cup.
    • Burruchaga was the best foreign player of French League 1985-86. His team was not champion that season, yet he ended up being the best foreign player of the league. Moreover, 3 years earlier he was part of the team that won Argentina league, copa libertadores and the intercontinental cup. Scored once in the WC 1986 finals.
    • Hector Enrique was a midfielder of the team that won Argentina league, Copa Libertadores and Intercontinental cup in 1986. All in the same year of that supposed average sided Argentina. He was in the starting 11 of the Intercontinental cup 1986 finals.
    • Pumpido: Like Enrique, he was the keeper of the team that dominated the tournaments of 1986.
    • Stopper: Ruggeri. He also was a part of the team that dominated the tournaments of the same year; he is widely considered one of the best Argentinian defender ever.
    • Daniel Passarella: He ended 1985-86 season in Italian Seria A, he mainly was a defender yet he scored 11 goals in Seria A 1985-86. After the end of the season, he was bought by Inter Milan.
    • Clausen: 2 years earlier he also was part of a team that dominated South American tournaments. At the time of the world cup, he was just 23.
    • Castrol Rankings chose best 11 of the WC 1986, 5 of that players were from Argentina Squad, compared to 4 players of Brazil 1970 which is considered the best national team ever. Ok, this castrol rankings rely on details rather than a performance but nevertheless, this ranking is good to see who made less errors.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    • That supposed "average sided Argentina 86" had 5 players in top 10 compared to the team that is widely regarded the best National Team ever: Brazil70, they had only 3. Netherlands 74 is also considered one of the top National teams ever, they had 5 players in top10.
    • If we look deeper, Rivelino, 3rd brazilian in top10 who is ranked 6th in top10, had a rating of 9.38 compared to the lowest Argentinian in top 10's rating: 9.39
    • Castrol rankings are based on the mistakes and correct steps footballers did, it does not indicate the whole performance, of course it can not be taken as a bible but it however shows how frequently they made mistakes, Argentinians were making less mistakes than their rivals.
    • Maradona had 4 defender teammate and 1 attacking teammate in top10 compared to 2 attacking midfield teammates of Pele.
    • Moreover, in Castrol's WC1986 top 10 players, Germany and Belgium, the two teams Argentina faced in semi-final and final, did not have any players in top 10.
    • england, whom Maradona faced in quarter final, had only 1 player in top10 and that one is an attacking player, no any defender.
    Now, compare that squad to the Germany of 1986 final's starting 11. Quick observations:

    • Karl Heins Rummenigge was playing in Intermilan in 1985-86 season, he scored 13 goals in 24 games he played in. Compare it to Argentina's sub player Daniel Passarella, a center back that scored 11 in the same season of the same tournament German Striker was playing in.
    • Germany's forward Allofs: In 1985-86 season, he was part of a Uefa Cup runner up team, he scored only 7 goals in the German league compared to Argentina's substitute center bacl Passarella's 11 in Seria.
    • Felix Magath: 3 years earlier, he was part of a UEFA cup winning team. In 1985-86, he was part of a team that ended the league as 7th placed team. He was an attacking midfielder, he had nothing worthy to mention in 1986
    • Lotthar Matthaus: Nothing. He was very great midfielder, nothing needed to describe him.
    No need to go deeper, Germany had players that were part of good teams in 1985-86 but when compared to Argentina 1986, their squad is not as good as Argentina's.


    Maradona had good squad and "good team" behind him. This squad is usually served as "poor side Argentina." That is how overrated Maradona is, his teammates are diminished - degraded so that Maradona can look better than he actually was.

    Maradona is not only too overrated, he is mythicized - he is mythologized. He was very good player, no doubt about that but never close to the level he has been cracked up to be.

    Maradona is not that much better than George Hagi. I would say the two are close.
     
  25. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Sensible football fans are aware of the fact that Maradona didn’t play for an average squad. Zidane btw was marketed in a similar way where majority of Zidane fanboys believe he carried 98,00 and 06 French NT.
    That’s just retarded.
     
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