Is Zico, not Maradona, the second best player?ever?

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Izzy9, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Tedious job yes, luckily you only have to check the games somebody else than Maradona scored.
     
  2. stcv1974

    stcv1974 Member

    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Are you planning on expanding the table for some other players like Zidane or someone else in the future?
     
  3. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Possibly, but I need some motivation, like for this I wanted to break the myth of Maradona "single-handedly" carrying Napoli to first scudetto. You can actually see how team strengthens 85-86 and 86-87, Maradona's influence becomes less, but the team results become better.
     
  4. stcv1974

    stcv1974 Member

    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Zidane single-handedly carried all his teams! :p
    Just joking, of course. I understand that it's huge amount of work, but if you do expand the list in the future, please let me know and if i find time and motivation to do something like this i'll let you know.
     
  5. stcv1974

    stcv1974 Member

    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    May i suggest another column you should add, percentage of possible points. For example Messi in 12-13 brought 38 points of possible 114 so that's 33%. I may do it later today for all of these seasons.
     
  6. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Sounds good.
     
  7. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I meant whether you can give the detailed list of assists... So in which league games he had an assist..
     
  9. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes I have those, for

    Maradona 84-85 Serie-A assists

    Ascoli - Napoli, 1 (Penzo, rebound)
    Napoli - Roma, 1 (Bertoni)
    Napoli - Lazio, 1 (Own Goal)
    Milan - Napoli, 1 (Own Goal)
    Napoli - Atalanta, 1 (Bertoni)
    Cremonese - Napoli, 1 (Bertoni)
    Roma - Napoli, 1 (Bertoni)
    Napoli - Fiorentina, 1 (Caffarelli)

    8 assists (narrow 5, wide 3)
     
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  10. stcv1974

    stcv1974 Member

    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Thanks.
     
  11. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Still ,.. blind stats = That's part of my point in some scenarios:

    - PlayerA of team ranked #1 beat another ranked #40: 5-0 and got 2goals +1ass (3 points for teh team)
    - PlayerB of team ranked #36 beat another ranked #20: 1-0 and got 1ass (still got 3points for teh team)
    - Player C of team ranked #45 tied to a team ranked #9 : 1-1 with 1 goal, and (got only 1 point for the team)

    So by (blind) STATS automatically Player A got all credits while player C no credit at all? that's dilemma
     
  12. SirWellingtonSilva

    May 30, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Not that you needed to say this but thanks for putting in in writing that any analysis you put up is heavily infused with biased. It's nice to see you admit it.
     
  13. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    haha .., tell Bada to pursuit his illusion (drream) = de-mistify the Maradona single-handed with Argentina and Napoli.

    That will make him 10000001 person trying ... since last 30years = no success!
    That will make him understand more Maradona = no harm
     
  14. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What bias? I wanted to portray the truth, there's no bias in that.
     
  15. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    that;s just blind stats nothing to do with truth

    now some truth you never mentioned:
    1- Napoli of Maradona ranked #75-100 in his time (vs Barca ranked #1 -#3 of Messi time)
    2- Argentina of Maradona ranked #12-16 vs Argentina of Messi ranked #2-6
     
  16. stcv1974

    stcv1974 Member

    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Can you do this for 89-90 seasons or maybe even for all Maradona's season. If it's not too much to ask.
     
  17. stcv1974

    stcv1974 Member

    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    No, a player wouldn't get awarded any points because without his assist and goals it's still 2-0
     
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  18. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That's an inaccurate way to see the game, and it seems to have become almost the only manner it's discussed in this forum, sadly.
     
  19. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    neither is second, Johan Cruyf is second and Pele is number 1. debate who is third
     
  20. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #895 JamesBH11, Jan 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
    exactly .. but if one would strictly go by STATS , they did not reflect that !

    For example:
    Badabing wrote Messi 4goals+1ass/8goals of Argentina = 63% involved or important?
    That's blind STATS

    Fact said Messi did nothing in last 3 most important games and his team still advanced to final and was 2nd WC

    So in true analysis, even if one do not care the weight of Final > SF > QF > R16 > Group, Mesi would be at best 4/7 = 57% involved with the team
    if one count the weights into the equation then Messi contribution to Argentina 2014 < 33%
     
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  21. stcv1974

    stcv1974 Member

    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Ok, but when he counted his point contribution he calculated like i said by taking away goals and assists and seeing what would the score be for example: 5-1, take away messi's 2 goals, it's still 3-1 and Messi gets assigned no points but for 5-3, messi two goals, he would get 2 points. Do you understand?
     
  22. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    not really ..
    so do teh points in your system for Maradona 86 vs Messi 14 *for Bada's sake (in other thread) please

    will it be like 100 vs 50 or 9 vs 8.9? LOL
     
  23. stcv1974

    stcv1974 Member

    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    He did, and it can be checked. Ask him or just count for yourself. I cannot count like that for cup games, it makes sense only for league games.
     
  24. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    look what I just found...


    @Pipiolo @leadleader
     
  25. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    He? who? Badbing?
    like he did count Messi with 25 ass in 2013? fact said 21
    Like he did count Messi had 4ass in WC2010? fact said 2 was officially recorded

    that's why I ask you as a neutral *hopefully so or can I count on you?
     

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