Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively less...

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by pc4th, Feb 11, 2007.

Page 6 of 7
  1. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    #126 lanman, Sep 4, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Proof of what? All it shows is that a lot of money was spent. All you are doing is speculating that the money would be spent on wages if there were no transfer fees involved.
     
  2. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #127 pc4th, Sep 4, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    What else will they spend it on? Granted, they won't spend 100% of it on players. But they will spend a lot of it on players.

    See the new Premiership TV deal for example. Premiership teams are spending like crazy because of the extra revenue from the TV deal. If you give them $42 mil out of thin air, they will use it.
     
  3. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #128 pc4th, Sep 4, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    I am not disputing that.

    I am not even disputing the fact that some players will get a pay raise after they transfer. That's a fact.
     
  4. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #129 pc4th, Sep 4, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Average soccer player salary compare to elite soccer player salary is "flatter" than baseball. Fact or fiction?

    Average MLB salary (2006): $2,866,544
    Average of Top 5 MLB player salary (2006): $22 mil
    Ratio: 13.03%

    Average EPL salary (2006): £676,000 ($1,352,000)
    Average of Top 5 EPL player salary (2006): $11 mil
    Ratio: 12.30%

    Granted, median salary would be better. As you can see, the average baseball player earns 13.03% of what the top 5 MLB player earns (12.30% for average Premiership player). So this "flatter" is a myth. For both MLB and EPL, they are about the same.


    http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/news/article357006.ece
    MLB

     
  5. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    #130 lanman, Sep 5, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    They would keep it. You don't think that this new wave of foreign investors (Abramovich excepted) in the Premiership are here out of some altruistic desire to improve the standard of football? They are here to make money and savings on transfer fees would go straight into their pockets.
     
  6. sidis

    sidis Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Itaguaí-RJ - Brazil
    #131 sidis, Sep 6, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    You have a more top tiers in soccer.

    its difficult find a great payroll in baseball outside MLB.

    but in the world you could find at least 50 teams in the world that pay a lot of money for their athletes: 10-12 in EPL, more 5-6 in la liga, 3 in france, 5 in bundesliga, 8 in série A etc, 3 in turkey, shaktar donest, CSKA, some japan and arab teams...

    the soccer pyramid is much larger than baseball or any other sport.
     
  7. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #132 RichardL, Sep 6, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Isn't it true that the MLB stats don't include youth players, unlike the premiership figures?

    There's no way in the world, for example, that the typical premiership player is only on £13000 a week.

    In MLB, I believe, you have regular starters on 10% or so of the top earners in the same team. Unless you've got a youth player temporarily playing in the first team, you don't get that kind of discrepency in the premiership.


    http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/cda/doc/content/UK_ARFF_Highlights_2006(1).pdf
    According to the above, the average turnover in the premiership was £67 million.
    About 60% went on wages, or £40 million.

    With an average salary on £676,000 it means that average salary figure typically covers 59 players per team.
     
  8. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    #133 nicephoras, Sep 6, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    I know you don't understand baseball finances either, but look up Pohlad, Carl. It will be instructive.
     
  9. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #134 pc4th, Oct 7, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Dice K (Daisuke Matsuzaka) transfer fee reduced his salary. As a free agent, he could have gotten around $15 mil a year, but instead he only got $8.67 mil a year.

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...alifornia_in_final_attempt_to_sign_matsuzaka/

    Dice K salary: $52 mil over 6 years ($8.67 mil/year)
    Dice K posting fee: $51 million
    Total spending: $103 mil

    The RedSox was willing to spend $103 million on him for 6 years. That's $17 mil a year. However, the RedSox was not willing to spend $150 mil over 6 years in salary + posting (transfer) fee.

    So he only got $8.67 mil/year in salary.

    Also, read this:
    http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/putting-a-price-on-matsuzaka/

    Putting a price on Matsuzaka.

    As a free agent, the experts predicted he would get around $15 mil a year. Instead he got $8.67 mil a year as a non-free agent. Matsuzaka is proof that transfer fee is one of the big reasons that elite soccer players would earn more in salary and/or signing-on if they go on a free.
     
  10. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #135 RichardL, Oct 7, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    no, he's proof that baseball players will earn more if they go on a free. The markets work completely differently, as people keep trying to point out.
     
  11. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #136 pc4th, Oct 19, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Fact #1. Elite teams would have $30-40 million more each year if they get all their players on a free. (Real Madrid would have $120 million more if they get all their players during the 2007 summer for free).

    Go here to see the calculation I did:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268786

    Fact # 2. Teams benched players for refusing to sign a contract extension. They don't want their $30 million 'transfer value' player to become a free agent. No team would. I provided the news links to several examples on this thread.


    Fact # 3. Soccer elite teams earn more revenue than baseball elite teams. Yet, elite baseball players make a lot more than elite soccer players. Could the $40-50 million transfer fee have something to do with it? (I'm not saying transfer fee is the sole reason, just a big reason. An example of a small reason is the cost of academy).

    http://www.forbes.com/lists/results...ory1=category&category2=category&passKeyword=
    If the like of Yankees, RedSox, Dodgers, Mets, Braves, Giants have -$30 mil in net transfer spending each year, would these star players be getting the same salary?

    Fact #4. The average Premiership club spent $42 million in net transfer fee in 2007 (January and Summer 2007 windows). This number took the sales of players into account.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6976231.stm

    420/ 20 teams = 21 million pounds. About $42 million.

    What would the salary of MLB players be like if each MLB team have $42 million less each year?

    Hypothetical: What would the salary of EPL players be like if each EPL team have $42 million more each year (all the players are on free)?
     
  12. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #137 pc4th, Oct 19, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Yes, the two markets are different. However, just one thing need to happen to make it the same:

    Most/all the soccer players become free agents (particularly the elite soccer players).

    I would venture a guess that over 90% of elite MLB, NBA, NFL players become free agents at one time or another.

    Yet, only about 5% or less of elite soccer players do. (For example, Ballack and Beckham).

    So you agree that Dice K is proof that his $51 million transfer fee depressed his earning. Translate this to soccer en mass. Imagine 50 elite players all become free agents. Imagine Man U, Madrid, Chelsea now have $40 million extra each year.
     
  13. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #138 RichardL, Oct 20, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    no, because if all players are free agents, then although there might be 25% more money available, history has shown that every increase in income has been matched with an across-the-board raise in salaries, and there's no reason at all to expect it to be different.

    In baseball, where transfers fees are incredibly exceptional payments with no prospect of ever getting that money back through resale, yes. In soccer, no.

    with the new tv deal, they do have another $40 million to spend this year, just as does every other team in the premiership.
     
  14. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #139 imasyko, Oct 20, 2007
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Sorry, haven't read the whole thread, so this may be repetitive.

    MLB teams support 6-7 levels of minor league teams that they use to develop players. This is a direct expense of every major league club - a lot of players are paid that never see the big leagues.

    Soccer transfer fees do much the same thing, in that smaller clubs use the money to sign unproven talent in the hopes of developing them and then selling them. Prem teams have youth academies I know, but only 1 reserve team, correct, so their expenditures on developing talent are far less than the MLB teams.
     
  15. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #140 pc4th, Apr 8, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    http://www.lep.co.uk/national-football/Real-could-snatch-Ronaldo-for.3952686.jp

    Imagine Cristiano Ronaldo as a free agent at 26 years old.

    $40-50 million signing-on fee + $12 mil a year salary: Very doable.
     
  16. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    #141 Paul_NL, Apr 8, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    I doubt they would as it´s not in there best interest to start a bidding war for top-level talent
     
  17. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #142 RichardL, Apr 8, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Nobody in their right mind would pay a $50 million signing on fee, nor would clubs spread $50 million over the length of the contract. People keep saying this to you, but you just keep asking exactly the same question again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
     
  18. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    #143 Matt Clark, Apr 9, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    He even maintains a watching brief on six-month old threads to do it in.
     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #144 The Jitty Slitter, Apr 9, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    I still can't believe Theirry Henry didn't realise he could make a 50m signing on fee as well :rolleyes:
     
  20. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    #145 Matt Clark, Apr 9, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    No no no, it's just the clubs that don't realise it because of transfer fees. It's blinding them to the glorious truth.
     
  21. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #146 pc4th, Apr 18, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2274680,00.html

    $10 million signing-on fee for extending his contract. Not bad.

    Arsenal also benefit because they sold him for something like $25 million to Barcelona.
    They would got nothing if Henry was a free agent. He only got 1 year left when he sign the contract extension.
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #147 The Jitty Slitter, Apr 18, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    arsenal benefited?

    they paid him $10m and then sold him for about 10m quid less than they were offered for him the year before!

    :rolleyes:

    so even if these figures are right (big if) - that means the gunners lost almost 30m in one year on him
     
  23. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    #148 Paul_NL, Apr 19, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Signing on fee and salary are not the same
     
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #149 The Jitty Slitter, Apr 19, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    Not sure if this was aimed at me - but the Thierry Henry contract extension was finacially disastrous for the gunners

    He played not even half a season, on stupid money, plus this signing off fee apparently, AND (as if all that is not bad enough) his value plummeted from the 25-30m Barca were offering the previous year, to 15m quid.

    If the signing off fee was paid in advance as pc4th claims, that means the gunners paid $10m to preserve a contract that devalued by at least $20m in one year... not to mention his salary increase
     
  25. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    #150 Paul_NL, Apr 22, 2008
    Re: Is transfer fee expense 1 of the big reasons why elite soccer players are earning relatively les

    The bonus is a one time deal, the salary is coming back year after year. That´s the main difference
     
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