Is today a good day to discuss Greg Berhalter vs. Tata Martino?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Honore de Ballsac, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Home game. Turf. Gargantuan crowd. Huge advantage in player expenditure. Poor squad management. Poor game preparation. Tactical inflexibility. Out-coached.

    Won't matter, right? Because big name international guy, who calls it futbol.
     
  2. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Greg went thru a lot of failing Crew squads before he put that one on the pitch.

    Tata was coaching an "elite" side that wasn't elite. You can see him trying to figure out what makes an MLS team run all year and last nite he got some more data.

    Saying somebody could have had a different tactical plan is easy when you'll never know if the players could actually have carried it off.

    Nobody was expecting Atlanta to win the MLS cup first year just because they hired a great coach (who didn't pick all the players, b.t.w)

    Say he wins last nite and loses to NY or Toronto. One could say "you see, Vanney is so much better. Tata's tactics were inflexible, he should have tried x instead of y." Same post different game. Works every time.

    Let me just say that the game as a tv event was really so good, marketable to billions, yet the American billionaires insist on jamming plastic surfaces down our throats. Such a pity.
     
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  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    No pro/rel ruining Martino? ;)
     
  4. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Why yes. If Tata lost with so many advantages, due to his own poor decisions in the long and short term, it would be meaningful.

    However, like Atlanta, Toronto has a big budget club and players. Columbus' advantage is Berhalter, and certainly, years to try to get the program right.

    Tata was arguably coaching an elite side compared to Columbus.

    And anyway, the US can't just go out an buy elite players like Almiron, Guzan and Martinez. Struggling because you don't have truly elite players is not a positive for a US coach.
     
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  5. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Oh I forgot to mention, Tata got some bullshit calls, too. Right?
     
  6. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    I feel I must say that Tata's tactics were inflexible, he should have tried x instead of y.
     
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  7. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    I give credit to Berhalter more than discredit to Martino for this one particular match, but I do think Martino failed Atlanta in the last few months. Atlanta beat up on the bottom and middle of the table in that glut of home matches in September, but they also picked up too many injuries due to Martino's failure to implement enough squad rotation.
     
  8. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    He obviously should have played that guy.
     
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  9. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    Neither guy really impressed me last night.

    Btw, if you had watched Almiron. That guy might be talented, but is a ball hog.
     
  10. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    So, Berhalter for USMNT coach?
     
  11. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Since FCD has shot its wad, Atlanta has become the show boat for an American soccer establishment that wants a new example of a team "built the right way," i.e. without 30-something DPs from the big Euros, because it's easier to maintain the facade of a league nipping at the heels of European giants when David Villa isn't running wild in it at 35. I don't mean that harshly, because I don't feel that way. I accept MLS for what it is - an entertaining if inferior league.
     
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  12. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Apparently you haven't watched many MLS broadcasts if you deny that he's the New Pele.
     
  13. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    Arena tied Osorio at Azteca, let’s give him one more chance.

    I mean, he is American and doesn’t have an accent and the best, he calls it soccer.

    Looks like we never learn
     
  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's just a silly sport and, frankly, nobody cares about it.
     
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  15. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The two teams were separated by one point in the standings. And the match went 120 minutes, was 0-0, could have been 4-4 if not for posts, crossbars and goalkeepers, both teams had plenty of opportunity to win, and it was ultimately decided on PK's.

    Basically, two even teams played a really even match. Hard for me to lose my mind about coaching, one way or the other.
     
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  16. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berhalter beat an expansion team with some luck and great goalkeeping. Sure, that qualifies him to run the US Team as much as anyone.
     
  17. Dervos

    Dervos Member+

    Mar 13, 2002
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Personally, I'm just pleased for Austin.
     
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  18. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    The point is, bad results can happen on any given day.

    Nobody is saying Tata is Ancelotti or that he is the solution.

    We are saying we need to try something different.

    We have tried American coaches that never over achieve, we tried an amateur German coach...

    We think Tata is the best option we have available but if we can afford Capello or Ancelotti, great, I doubt they will take the job.

    I’ll take a foreign with an accent that calls it futbol any day, as long as he has won a Libertadores or have Champions League experience.
     
  19. bigt8917

    bigt8917 Member+

    May 10, 2015
    I mean, why not just put Ben Olsen in the discussion. His team did beat Atlanta 3 times this year. Ben Olsen for USMNT coach.
     
  20. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know a lot of people are enamored with Martino, but there are three issues I have with him as a coach:

    1. History of choking. At Barcelona, and twice at Argentina, his teams underperformed when it mattered most. I do not count Atlanta, because I think he over-performed to get them to where they were as an expansion team. But he has a history of coming short.

    2. Style of play. Martino wants a hi-press game which would suit up-and-coming players like McKennie and Adams. The issue is he almost always seeks out players who are super comfortable in tight space and who use skill and combinations to break down teams. The US does not have those players, so I am not sure how Martino would adjust.

    3. Player rotation. This is a guy sets a line up and sticks with it, often against reason. It has led to many of his downfalls as a coach, and it is about the very last thing the US needs. The US needs a coach who is going to turn over the player pool, and relentlessly seek the best lineup over the next 2 1/2 years. Martino is not that guy.
     
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  21. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    The USA has thousands of skilled players, that is the main reason why Tata or someone like him should be our coach.
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Suseata, good breakdown. I’m not so worried about rotation, because that’s typically a problem for club coaches.

    At least, that’s my first thought. My second thought is the dread I felt when I saw the same XI against T&T.
    Thousands? Where are they playing? Why didn’t Bradley or Klinsmann or Arena use them? Why isn’t Martino using them? Are all these guys soccer idiots?
     
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  23. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    Go away, you contribute nothing
     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You didn’t answer the question. Where are those thousands? Why aren’t they already with the Nats, or at least in MLS?
     
  25. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    That is the problem we are trying to solve.

    I can walk you through Los Angeles showing you all the potential we have.

    Is people like you why we can’t beat weak countries like Honduras or Panama.

    Really you are getting on my nerves.
     

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