Is the U.S.A. practicing Communism?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Dammit!, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    Comment: I don't think there is a precise point where a country "becomes" socialist or communist, but we sure are heading down that path.

    From www.libertyzone.com

    The 10 PLANKS stated in the Communist Manifesto and some of their American counterparts are...

    1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
    Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

    2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
    Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

    3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
    Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

    4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
    Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).

    5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
    Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

    6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
    Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

    7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
    Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

    8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
    Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

    9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
    Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.

    10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
    Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.

    ---------------

    A rose by any other name...
     
  2. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    A doofus by any other name :rolleyes:
     
  3. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First - worst website EVAR.

    Second - I've never seen someone extrapolate EVERY example of light regulation into "THE STATE OWNS EVERYTHING". Insane.
     
  4. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    If you think the FCC is "light regulation" ...
     
  5. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    The 1890s were so kewl!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Join The Libertarian Party: Because America misses the 19th-century salad days of no child labor laws or air traffic regulations.
     
  7. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    It's probably a good way to find a reliable pot dealer as well.
     
  8. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps not the FCC - but zoning laws being equivalent to "abolition of private property"? That's libertarian kookdom.
     
  9. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    I love it when Libertarians criticize zoning laws, demonstrating that they've never actually been to a city with weak zoning laws.

    May I suggest Greenville, SC? Have a nice time driving everywhere and not being able to find anything. But even the good folks in Greenville recognize that you don't want a coal factory next to your home next to your school next to a strip club next to a skyscraper next to a prison next to the church.

    Once again, I'll mention that the only region in the world where de facto Libertarianism is practiced is sub-Saharan Africa. We're all anxiously awaiting the gigantic economic growth over there that Libertarians promise.
     
  10. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    Oh yeah, because the government is responsible for everything good that has happened in the last hundred years...

    BTW, do you like that you could have been spied on by your government w/out warrant? That IRS regs are so convoluted that everyone is breaking a law when s/he files taxes?

    Do you want more regulation of the internet? Cuz it's coming... it's coming. Pretty soon it won't just be the BigSoccer censors editing your ********, it will be big brother.

    So, if you want more, then just go on doing what you've been doing, and you'll get what you deserve.
     
  11. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    Tired argument. Got anything new other then getting lost in SC??
     
  12. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    I remember writing something like that for my 10th grade gov't class. It's good to see you beginning to understand governmental structures. Now go back and rewrite all of that so that it isn't stupid.
     
  13. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    How about the takings clause? Govt can come in and snatch your property to allow a developer to build a strip-mall. Like that?

    (not that the author isn't a little wild-eyed...)
     
  14. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    One of my wife's co-workers trots out the public school argument every once in a while. He sincerely believes--I'm not kidding, he really believes this--that public schools should not exist, and that education is for those who can afford it. After all, why should he have to pay for someone else's education? Your quoted material makes essentially the same claim.

    It's not even worth debating someone who believes such utterly idiotic nonsense. Once again, look to the lack of viable public schools in Africa. What has it gotten them? A culture in which 20% of the population has HIV infection and in which some believe that if you have sex with 100 virigins, your AIDS will be cured. You also have lovely pockets of Africa in which (generally Muslim) tribal leaders refuse to allow polio vaccination, because what's obviouisly happening is an attempt to poison the tribe. What it hasn't gotten Africa is Silicon Valley.

    It's a tired argument only because Libertarians are frustrated by their lack of a real response.
     
  15. CosmosKramer

    CosmosKramer Member

    Sep 24, 2000
    Yokohama
    Club:
    Yokohama F Marinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    State capitalism, defined as, a close relationship between the government and private capitalism would be nearer to the truth.
     
  16. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    That's not true, and you know it's not true. The legal scholars here can explain your misreading of the recent New London, Connecticut, ruling.
     
  17. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course I have serious issues about the application of eminent domain. In general, I believe in maximizing the freedoms of individual citizens.

    Very wild-eyed. Can't even parse his site.
     
  18. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Absolutely. That's a characteristic of fascism, not communism.

    BTW, what is the incessant linking of communism and socialism all about? Those aren't really all that similar. Or, more concerning, the conflation of Stalinism and socialism, which is really intellectually lazy.
     
  19. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
  20. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I know. I posted about it last night:

     
  21. Section106

    Section106 Member

    May 1, 2003
    Hampton,VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I lived in Greenville, SC for a summer in my drinking days. You couldn't buy a drink in a restaurant or store on a Sunday but you could go to a private club. All bars and restaurants served their liquor in airplane bottles so a B-52 in an upscale place could cost you 15-20 bucks. The funny thing was that in the city alcohol sales ended at 12 but one street over in the county you could buy beer until 4 am. Crazy zoning laws.


    Disclaimer: the "facts" in this post are drunken recollections and should not be taken as the gospel truth.
     
  22. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And once again this statement is inaccurate. Libertarianism requires legal order to be in place to succeed. This is not the case in Sub Saharan Africa.

    But let's say you are correct. What do you think of this?


    Africa hits record growth - IMF
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4447773.stm

    "Economic growth in sub-Saharan Africa reached an eight-year high of 5% last year, according to a report by the International Monetary Fund.
    Inflation meanwhile fell to its lowest rate in 25 years.

    The IMF said about 20 countries in the region had achieved growth of more than 5%, with inflation of less than 10%."

    Wouldn't you consider it a start?
     
  23. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    Anarchy is not libertarian. But, not many people no what Libertarians think so... how can you argue it? You first have to educate to argue, which is always difficult, as I'm sure you understand.
     
  24. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    Please educate me because I spent lots of money and three years of my life to get through law school but I apparently can't read a Supreme Court case yet.

    "Promoting economic development is a traditional and long-accepted function of government" - Majority opinion expaaanding what a "public use" is.
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will in 3 years when President Hillary is in charge. She'll keep you subversives in line...and you'll LIKE it.
     

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