Is the detroit mls dream over

Discussion in 'Detroit' started by MiWilson, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. MiWilson

    MiWilson Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    has anyone heard anything else about Detroit?


    MOD NOTE: I moved this from general expansion.
    I see it as a legitimate question and not an attempt to troll.
    I thought some locals could shed some light on it.
     
  2. Shinobiz11

    Shinobiz11 New Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    Michigan
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just joined this forum to find out about this. I saw the Detroit Logos and Kits thread, seemed like a cool idea.
     
  3. zoobawa

    zoobawa Member

    Jul 28, 2008
    Minnesota
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    i wouldnt say its over, but not for the foreseeable future. At least that is my understanding.

    I would say that Orlando/NY2/Minneapolis are more likely right now to get teams. Minneapolis is dependent upon the new Vikings stadium being built and those specifics though.
     
  4. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you have some new information on which you base your understanding, or is it really just a guess?
     
  5. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would say less than a guess. More like a ghost fart
     
  6. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that's what I thought too.
     
  7. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...oal-line-technology-3494766.php#ixzz1saZPFM8a

    I really hope that the MLS bid hasn't been abandoned by Triple Sports in favor of ultimate frisbee.
     
  8. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey now.. Don't go ripping on MLUF. It has a real future in this country and is on the cusp of really taking off.
     
  9. DetroitTFC

    DetroitTFC BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 14, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd like to see another summer friendly to keep things rolling but I'm concerned the window for setting up anything may have passed.
     
  10. blazindw

    blazindw Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 30, 2007
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just like the city, the effort to get a MLS team here has to be a renaissance. Support for DCFC and the Bucks will be what helps grow the grassroots support. Getting big-time friendlies (and selling them out) are going to be what gets the attention of MLS. I'm sure TSE is working hard to sell their positive points to MLS, but MLS needs to have their bell rung many times before they hear it.

    Also, with the push being to move things back downtown, MLS might (and I'm just speculating here) not be interested unless the new team would be based somewhere downtown, so as to be a part of that renaissance. They would be able to then draw fans from all over the area and not be restricted to the north suburbs (even though this is where the concentration of soccer leagues/soccer families reside).
     
  11. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still think the way to go is a pro team in USL or NASL. (Probably USL since Dan D. is still active with them.) That would include building a 5K stadium, probably near the Ultimate.
     
  12. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First major crack in the bullet-proof armor that is Frisbee Football. The Connecticut franchise has suspended op's (but appearently have continued to play games [???]; only a few games left in the season, and Conn had clinched a playoff spot). Connecticut (and the Rhode Island franchise) and the league have lawsuits concerning the territorial rights of NYC and Boston, and the suits have been filed in Michigan. (And as we all know, the league championship game is slated for the S'Dome.)

    It's so great when these things are played out in public (just like the fun we had in the Dan Borislow vs WPS before that league went gonersville):


    http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c5c8d756d259288b1ba3857d4&id=bae438a5a6&e=387635429f

    July 5, 2012
    Dear Connecticut Constitution family,

    It is with great sadness that we are forced to announce the indefinite suspension of all team operations as of 2:00pm EST this afternoon. This decision comes at an inopportune time as we journey through the inaugural season. This has been a journey dotted with success after success for our team and our franchise. The Connecticut team is one of the premiere franchises in the league both in victories and in fan attendance. The AUDL has sued the Constitution and the Rhode island Rampage and that suit has caused us to spend an enormous amount of money protecting our rights, instead of allowing us to use those funds for our operations.

    During May 2012, we became aware of the sale of both the New York City and Boston territories, and together with the Rhode Island owner, we challenged the League to answer why we were not approached about these sales prior to the League selling these territories inasmuch as both of these new teams existed within our owned territories. The territory ownership area is governed by a Territory License Agreement (TLA) that was created, signed and approved by the League. This territory agreement allows us to own an area that includes a 100 mile radius. New York City and Boston are within our territories.

    We sought answers to our concerns numerous times and felt that the TLA was clear and that no other team could exist in our area. After numerous attempts to get clarification from the League, we suggested that this might need to be addressed by attorneys. Unfortunately, the League decided that instead of taking this to a discussion, they elected to file a suit against us. This lawsuit was filed from Michigan, and includes a number of allegations within their suit. They allege that the contract they wrote doesn’t mean what it says, among other items.

    We have been forced to retain attorneys in both Connecticut and Michigan to answer their allegations, protect our territory and to seek additional clarification over these claims. The costs to defend this lawsuit have robbed us of necessary operating funds needed to complete our season and caused us to rethink the value of the partnership we sought to create with this League.
    The League, almost as quickly as it filed the suit, has stated that it will consider withdrawing the suit and rescind the New York City territory although in almost the same breath the League has offered to withdraw the suit and keep the territory and offer us no compensation for the taking of our territory, a territory that we have cultivated all season. The League continues to be silent about the Boston territory.

    Our organization cannot absorb the cost of these attorney fees and continue operational costs. In addition, we have requested that the League reimburse us for the attorney fees and the League has stated that they are not willing to do that. The League has decided to suspend discussions with us and simply report that we ‘are unable to finish the season’. We adamantly deny this callous statement.

    Therefore, we are forced to indefinitely suspend our operations until the League withdraws the suit, rescinds the territories and makes us whole for these attorney fees. Our team will continue to operate as a unit during this suspension and we are ready to play on and we will continue our season as soon as we can get this issue resolved.
    Regrettably,
    Bryan Ricci CEO
    Connecticut Constitution LLC


    http://www.ctconstitution.com/
    July 7, 2012
    Phew! Busy week. Not all good unfortunately. As noted in our newsletter and facebook, the Constitution was forced into indefinitely suspending operations caused by the Lawsuit that was filed against us by the AUDL. This lawsuit has caused us to retain legal services in both Connecticut and Michigan to defend our rights. The cost of these attorneys has depleted our operational funds. We seek to get this resolved and get back on the field very soon.

    Even during this indefinite suspension, we continue to practice and prepare ourselves for the remaining games and the divisional playoff challenge with the Philadelphia Spinners in Philadelphia on August 4th at 7:00pm. We will soon be providing information to our fans about fan buses and other activities and news related to this playoff event. Hold that date!

    Please continue to check our website and facebook and twitter as the week progresses. The Constitution will be on the field next weekend, and any changes to the event will be presented in these forums.


    http://www.theaudl.com/index.php?view=article&catid=13:featured-news&id=124:constitution-suspend-operations&tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=&option=com_content&Itemid=71

    Constitution suspend operations

    AUDL Fans,

    A letter was issued today by the Connecticut Constitution indicating that the team is suspending operations indefinitely. As much as we would have preferred to settle the issues internally, their statement merits a response from the league. We do not wish for the case to be debated in the court of public opinion, yet wish to state how the situation came about.

    Before the AUDL was ever established, we set out to have teams in Boston, NYC, Hartford and Providence, among others. Our owners in Connecticut and Rhode Island both saw this proposal before and after signing on with the league and as we looked to continue to add teams to the league, were in agreement to get to 16 teams in the Northeast and target these regions. Based on this mutual understanding, the league proceeded to find owners in both Boston and NYC for next season, as these markets are essential for the growth and success of the AUDL. After the start of the season, the Connecticut and Rhode Island owners no longer wanted teams in NYC and Boston, after we already had owners ready to go. We set out as a league and we mutually agreed to place teams in these markets both before and after Connecticut and Rhode Island teams came into existence. As part of their insistence that no teams be placed in NYC and Boston, they threatened legal action against the league if these territories were not rescinded. In response, the league filed suit to request judgment as to their radius being enforceable given that they had agreed to the teams previously, because we couldn't have this issue dragging on for months when teams in NYC and Boston have work to do to be ready for next season. We've been working to settle things out of court and were (and still are) hopeful that an agreement would be made shortly.

    The AUDL is committed to pushing the sport forward and will continue to do so in the future. We are sorry for the impact that this has on the teams and fans and will work to correct this. Certainly there are many challenges that a new league faces and we are continually grateful for the many people that have supported us along the way.

    Sincerely,
    Josh Moore, President
    American Ultimate Disc League
     
  13. bullsear

    bullsear Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    I think the dream is probably dead for the next decade. Then if/when MLS starts expanding again, there might be a shot.

    What about NASL?
     
  14. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This doesn't look good for MLS in the Silverdome. Soccer isn't even mentioned.
     
  15. ajbirch07

    ajbirch07 Member

    Jan 31, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    smh..... if only soccer was as lucrative a business as a casino :(
     
  16. ajbirch07

    ajbirch07 Member

    Jan 31, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Too many pro teams in Detroit. Why see a division 2 side when you can go watch the Tigers for instance.
     
  17. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What? Astropunkass isn't going to sink half a billion dollars into the SketchUpped/Photoshopped halfass "plan" he presented and dozens of people with less than zero background in construction, architecture, structural engineering and public finance said was totally doable because he was worth 800 million bucks...



    I'm shocked...


    [​IMG]
     
  18. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice Casablanca reference, but you seem intent on mischaracterizing the arguments. What he presented was done by (arguably) the leading stadium architecture firm in the world, and THAT is why I and some others argued that it was doable. While questioning the fiscal wisdom of such a thing is certainly legitimate, there is certainly a case to be made for both sides. The only issue I ever had with the knee-jerk detractors was the statement that it wasn't architecturally possible, and Rossetti's involvement seemed not to matter to those who think they knew better.

    Short answer: Your "I told you so" rings hollow when you have to distort the position of those whose noses you want to rub in it.
     
  19. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scott, let me be perfectly frank with you. A/E firms will bust you out all manner of conceptual "designs", based on the Owner's input with very little regard as to whether or not it can actually be built. It's cheap billable hours. I did something for an Owner a couple of weeks ago of this nature. Told them that their existing structure wasn't capable of supporting the changes they wanted to make without massive structural changes, would require a complete and total replacement of their HVAC system and would totally change the code requirements for the building. Then I told how much the conceptual work was going to be and they said "Tally Ho".

    So I made a few grand for my office for nice looking renderings of a building renovation that will never happen, and they have more money in the bank than Astropunkass and make more every day (off of casinos ;)). The process of design rarely starts with "Can this design be built?".

    It was and is not architecturally possible with the funds he had available, that's obvious now. Whether it is possible with unlimited funds is a different question that's usually only answered when you're working with Middle Eastern Petrodollars.

    That shot really wasn't directed at you, but a lot of others in here.
     
    SYoshonis repped this.
  20. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does "Tally Ho" mean the same thing as "Hey everybody, look what I want to do"? Because that's what Triple Sports did.

    Point taken, though. I, like you I imagine, always wondered why he didn't just want to take some of the 127 acres around the Silverdome that came with the purchase and build a soccer stadium from the ground up. But then the renderings came out, and I figured that if this is what he wants to do, create three different venues out of one dinosaur of an NFL stadium, more power to him.

    And this continues to be the question: How much money is he willing and able to put into the MLS team? At this point, sadly, that number seems to be zero.

    Thanks for saying so.
     
  21. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, from the point of who I was working for, it was internal to their decision makers, some of whom are used just throwing money at things and some who are fiscally responsible. This was pretty mucu a little red meat to both parties to show: "We can get a whole new, larger building for half what this thing would cost to renovate, and it won't leak."
    It is his money to burn, but likely the reason the MLS BoG never returned his calls is that they look at more than just a unique stadium situation and whether or not the team will cease operations if the I/O dies in a car wreck because his family raids the wealth
    Yes, it is sad.
    NP, you're one of the 8-10 not assholes on this site
     
    SYoshonis repped this.
  22. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought of the same thing, when the casino proposal broke in April. https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/silverdome-reno-thread.1908507/page-3#post-25572254

    Although the latest OakPress article includes the tidbit about it being a casino / water park / family fun center (another split-level triple-view cut-out graphic to come?). It's a different angle to a casino-only pitch towards the public. And basically admits that the space is too big for a casino-only.
     
  23. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And about architechtural plans. The Bucks did say that they had arch plans made for an 18K stadium. It had a concert stage that could be put in front of the VIP boxes, so the same boxes could be used for music, also. So the thought of just building a new stadium on the S'dome land isn't far-fetched.

    Although I do like the notion of a new soccer stadium for MLS games, with the 'Dome still intact for high-profile games needing 30K seats (or maybe in the winter time, since MLS is stretching its schedule from March to November playoffs, with MLS Cup in December).
     
  24. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Manistee, Michigan
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would be nice, but I can't see Triple Sports seeing an advantage in having a 20,000 +/- -seat stadium next to an 80,000-seat dome with no real anchor tenant. But, I guess if they turn the Silverdome from a stadium into a casino/water park, that wouldn't be an issue.
     
  25. blazindw

    blazindw Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 30, 2007
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 'Dome in its current state won't last. They may do the MSG-style triple entertainment arena or maybe (if MLS rules allow) have a casino attached to a stadium. I think it would be the first of its kind since the other 4 leagues have rules against gambling centers near stadiums.
     

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