Is The Chivas Train Derailing?

What did you expect Vergara to say? I don't mind so much that he pumped his team up so much. It got people more excited about it. Pissed some people off too, but you can't deny the buzz he's created. Last night's attendance was a little disappointing though.

As much as I hate Chivas, I love the idea and would really like to see them succeed as a franchise now. I think it'll take some time to get them winning, but I doubt it's 5 years. I think Vergara is in it for the long haul and is now taking the popular attitude in regards to his team.

 

Certainly an interesting question. I've always wondered if certain foreign teams were overestimating the public acceptance of their brand in the US. If there was any team to test the concept, I would have thought that Chivas would have the most chance of success since you see people wearing their gear all over Mexico and the US. I was at a big Denver flea market today and their stuff was everywhere. And Chivas has a huge advantage because of the OmniLife network that Vergara has established throughout the Mexican community in the US.

At this point in time, it would seem that America, Pumas, Tigres, et al are having second thoughts about the number of fans who will turn up simply because a MLS team is wearing their shirts. And if it doesn't work for a Mexican team, then it sure isn't going to work for Real Madrid, Ajax, or Manchester United.

 

From: LA Times: Chivas USA Takes a Hard Fall

I don't know about how the economics of ticket prices shake out in Southern California or more specifically at the HDC, but I know that in Houston we've had great crowds for Mexican soccer when prices are at or below $20 (as is often the case at Robertson) and not so great crowds when prices start going higher (as in often the case at Reliant). In fact, what we've often seen for Mexican games at Reliant is that the cheap end zone seats sell well and the expensive sideline seats not so well. I don't know if it's feasible for Chivas to lower ticket prices for the sidelines at the HDC.

 

I don't know if its feasible either, but it may be necessary. The point of Chivas was to reach out to Mexican fans. Now who knows how many seats they'd sell if ticket prices were more affordable, but its safe to say the attendance would be much better...If your target is a certain audience, you have to make it more readily available for them to see the product... It's Business 101. Now if it's feasible or not remains to be seen, but I think it needs to happen...

 

I hate chivas also but I like watching them play, they play with intensity and the fans that attend are great...trying not to jump on the "guzano sucks" banter but they should have 4 pts or more with better GK...I would rather watch a last place chivas match than my C-bus boys right now....

 

Actually, I've been concerned about the opposite. One of the reasons why Chivas is popular in Mexico is that they have a Mexican-only policy, but they can't follow that policy in the US. If you like Chivas because they embody Mexico, than how much are going to like Chivas USA if they aren't all Mexican? Is it okay if they're Mexican enough? How much is Mexican enough? I suppose we'll find out over the next few months.

But anyway, my point was that Chivas may be less likely than say America or Tigres of being able to offer an American version that its fans would find acceptable. America and Tigres don't depend on being a proxy for El Tri. America has long had a strong foreign player base and Tigres is from Monterrey, where many people have close social, cultural, and business ties to Texas. So, I'm not sure that Chivas USA's attendances imply all that much for say Tigres San Antonio or Club America Houston. We're just dealing with different sorts of clubs and fan bases.

 

When I saw 18K people on TV at the Chivas home opener, I thought to myself: "Ok, the Pope just died, and 99.9% of Mexicans are Catholics, they have a valid excuse". When I saw 12K people at a saturday night game coming of a 3:3 tie where the Chivas showed progress and flare, I thought: "Vergara and Cue just realized what a mistake they made". Of course, if 3 months from now Chivas are winning and drawing 20,000 I would be wrong...

I personally think that the issue with Chivas is more then just bringing in a brand name. Think about, Chivas Guadalajara means all Mexican players, marketed to Mexican fans as the pride of Mexico. Chivas USA is a team full of hispanic players (not all mexicans) marketed to Mexican fans of LA! Mexicans will not support this team the way they support Guadalajara. These are two different things, this is not a "Mexican" team, so why should you market to only Mexicans? On top of that, we all know that when it comes to soccer, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Ticos, Salvatruchos... they all despise Mexico. When you're marketing Cinco De Mayo as "Wear your Mexican National Team jersey or Sombrero and get $10 off a ticket", you know the Central Americans will not show up. Of course, we're all hoping that these guys will show up to support the Galaxy.

 

I think that they need a quality white US player to serve as the face and a marketing person to the regular non-Chivas soccer fans. From what I have read, the team is very passively (non-) marketing to the whites and other non-Latinos. If that all-too-presumptuous approach changes, perhaps more non-Mexican customers will come in.

Whether or not that will ruffle some Galaxian feathers, I have no idea.

Still, with a de facto own stadium, 13K might do enough for them to break even.

 

Yes, Chivas USA is full of hispanic players, but last night 3 of the 11 starters weren't (Brad Guzan, Ezra Hendrikson, and Matt Taylor).


For Chivas USA to be successful, one of the things Vergara needs to do is bring in some better players from the Chivas "A" team on loan or transfer.

Right now, there're only 3 players on Chivas USA -- Ramon Ramirez, Hector Cuadros, and Martin Zuniga -- who've played significant minutes for CD Guadalajara in the past.

At the end of last night's game, for instance, there were as many former Dallas Burn players on the field for Chivas USA as there were former Chivas (Mexico) players.

 

It's not their own stadium, they pay rent to AEG, and I assume it is AEG that is keeping all of the $15 parking fees that might be discouraging some from attending.

They need to get fans to care about Chivas USA as an entity unto itself. If it's the Chivas brand that gets folks initially interested, great, but they need to have fans that really care about the day-to-day machinations of the team--roster issues, coaching tactics, etc. If not, they'll end up being FC Clippers. Just selling a brand, especially when the product doesn't really match the tradition of the brand, won't go too far.

In San Jose I heard that many of the Chivas fans who came were pleased with the ticket prices. When real Mexican teams come to California for friendlies the prices are confiscatory, so being able to see a game for $16 or whatever made at least some of the Chivas fans happy. HDC prices are closer to the confiscatory side.

 

And one of them should be named Paco Palencia.

Unfortunately for Chivas USA, Guadalajara is doing well in the Libertadores and may still be busy after the Clausura ends in Mexico.

 

Way too ealry to be nervous. After all, the team's star left the team and came back - not the kind of thing to make fans want to buy tickets. Plus, they were getting crushed in the pre-season.

This is an expansion franchise, after all. MLS is much more established - and winning may take time.

What's interesting to me is when does Vaerga say chuck it, and start bringing in more first teamers from the Mother Ship?

One more thing: All the fans that Chivas brings in appear to be NEW fans to MLS.

I think this will work out just fine; it will take a bit more time than expected.

 

Good observations. I am not very impressed with Ramirez, and I thought he was supposed to be their anchor. Cuadros and Martins seem to be the key, with Sequeira in the back. They need serious help on the front line. Their forwards wouldn't make first team on most MLS teams. Why doesn't Vergara offload some serious talent from CDG? Does he really want Chivas USA to be an embarrassment?

 

Great insight! For once, someone is considering the sociological impact of their marketing strategy. Your observations are right on the money. Fortunately, I think they'll eventually figure out how to make it all work, but in the end, it's all about the product.

 

They need a better keeper , the kid is way too slow to handle big league soccer. They should have hired Casey or some other MLSer.

 

It's weird seeing the endzone seats almost filled with the sidelines empty.

I wonder if there are people still trying to get end tickets and they are sold out? If the demand is there for those seats, Chivas may need to rethink their price structure a bit and drop the sideline tickets a bit or at least offer some kind of package deals.

I was against Chivas at first, but as long as Vegrera wants to keep pumping money into the league I can keep my mouth shut. Hopefully they will add some quality players with their extra discovery picks over the next season and build a better team that more people in LA and other markets will want to watch.

 

Rather than ask whether the Chivas train is derailing, better to ask whether it was ever on track to begin with. They've now posted the lowest attendances for a home opener and for a regular-season MLS game at HDC. It's not like this organization was steaming along and has gone awry.

I think the best sign is the attendance in the end zones. There appear to be plenty of raucous fans who are willing to see Chivas USA for around $20, but not for $50. Seems reasonable--the demographic to which C-USA are trying to appeal is not the most affluent, and $50 is a hell of a lot to pay for soccer tickets (I pay about half that for DCU seats).

The interesting question to me is, who will watch this team?
--Loyal CDC-Guadalajara fans who will see any Chivas team. They're already there.
--Fans of CDC-G who are interested but not particularly sold on the experiment. I think lots of these people came to the opener but stayed away from the last game. A good product will get them to come out, a mediocre one will probably not.
--Mexican folks who love soccer, lack any loyalty to CDC-G, but would come to see a soccer team that they associate with Mexican nationality. This is a key group for the team to attract. If CDC-U can successfully cultivate a sense that "Chivas v. any MLS team" = "Mexico v. USA," then you might start pulling these folks to games.
--General soccer fans who are excited about the idea of any pro soccer in the US. This group has largely been swallowed up by the Galaxy. I don't see many of these folks coming to support CDC-U.

It's way too early to write this project off. The falloff in attendance between games 1-2 was bad but not awful. Next week's game should heat things up a bit, and if CDC-U start getting better breaks and getting some points, that should help too. Early stumbles will highlight what needs to change, and Vergara is too savvy a businessman not to make the right moves needed to move the franchise in the right direction.

 

We also need to keep in mind that Paco Palencia was supposed to be on this team. Rongen, however good or bad he may be, was planning for a team with Palencia. I'd imagine Matt Taylor wouldn't be starting if Paco were with the team.

Palencia asked Vergara to let him play the Clausura with Guadalajara and Vergara agreed. He probably won't be available until after the Clausura playoffs and Guadalajara's done in the Libertadores. That timing may be next month or it could be much later, depending on how far Guadalajara goes in the Libertadores.

 

Does Chivas pay the Galaxy for use of HDC?

If so, what's their break-even point for revenue for the season. I bet with current prices they aren't going to hit or even come close to it.

Furthermore, if they aren't paying the astronomical prices that some teams are, why have prices so high? I think they could have a great atmosphere at that stadium if they only had some people filling in the sideline seats.

 

For most sports teams in the US, it's the business community buying season tickets and boxes that really brings in the money. In Denver, the Broncos forced the city to knock down a perfectly good stadium and build a new one because the owner wasn't getting the box money. I've always wondered if Chivas would be able to tap into this revenue. Anybody know how the corporate box sales are going?

 

I've heard anecdotally that Chivas has already done better with corporate sponsors than any other MLS team-- whether that is (a) in fact true and (b) translates into corporate box sales, I don't know.

It's not the most auspicious start, for sure, but if you were looking for reasons to be optimistic, I'd say the following:

(a) Chivas USA fans are new fans to the league (Revolt's point)

(b) Chivas USA has brought more scoring and attacking soccer to the league (cynics will note that it is the opponents who are doing the attacking, but that's not entirely fair-- Chivas often looks like fun on the field-- 3 games in, I'd say "mission accomplished" if only with respect to diversifying MLS's style of play)

(c) Chivas USA may have a decent TV audience (MFL fans may not be willing to pay, but will watch) and this has helped MLS actually get rights money for the LA market-- a first

(d) Chivas USA sponsors are probably first time sponsors to the league.

(e) Attendance patterns for Chivas may well be very different than other teams-- they may not draw more than 12k on a regular basis, but they likely won't draw less.

Of course, if I were looking for reasons to be pessimistic, that list would be easy to come up...

 

Watch Futbol de Primera, the Argetine League review show that airs Monday nights. Half the games are devoid of anyone in between each goal, and filled with fanatical support at the ends. Many of the Copa Libertadores matches I've seen have the same thing. It's typical in Latin America.

As for Chivas, the off-field stuff is a mystery to me--not why no one's coming, but why they thought so many would.

On field, I'm still shocked at how few quality players were given to the team from Mexico. They need to bring Talavera and play him in goal, for starters.

I definitely agree that these are fans who wouldn't be at an MLS game otherwise, but I'm disappointed for them having to see second-rate stuff because Vergara (a billionaire, no less) won't push a little harder to get better players. I felt bad at seeing them jump around for the likes of Matt Taylor and Brad Guzan. What a waste of enthusiasm....

 

As others have said already, Vergara may be waiting for the end of the MFL spring season to see who may want/need to come to the US.

 

Why do people keep asking this question?

Wasn't Palencia an example?

He didn't want to play in MLS because he still has his eye on Chivas Mex.
My interpretation,"I am still good enough to be playing in Mexico, and shouldn't waste my "good years" in the US."
For the mexican players, the transition from Mexico to the US, or more specifically California is not as easy as it appears.

I doubt that Chivas players that are promising or in their prime will even consider MLS, Chivas USA is pretty much left with players past their prime, Ramirez, and those who aren't guarnteed starting/playing time.