They have their stories we have ours, they care about their football we care about ours. It does bother me that a lot of these clubs are supported by people which only look to support the current flavor of the month. But there are a lot of real fans in England that support teams like Swansea City, or Millwall. Much respect to those guys who don't give 2 shits about Barcelona, Real, Bayern, Inter, AC, Santos, Corinthians etc. you can't mention something that happened a long time ago and pretend to be happy, if half-baked idiots support your team you'll get the revenue needed to grow your club.. and have more season of dominance like that. Again living in the past won't make your team better. AC Milan and Real those 2 are the big dogs in Europe We are kind of comparing the league with the other ones around the world, so it's not truly just a state of the Brasileirao thread. But the reality of our league is this. Disorganized, competitive, bankrupt, filled with quality, corrupt. Until some issues get resolved it will stay as is.
I think that the Brasileirão is the best to watch because you have at least 12 teams in condition to win the championship, not just 3 or 4 as in the European leagues, or even 1 or 2. Buuut, technically, I think the brazilian league is behind the Premier, Bundesliga, La Liga and Serie A. The European Top 4.
That's just your opinion. Difficulty and time required to win a tournament are not the only factors in rating the importance of that tournament. The UEFA Supercup is arguably harder and takes longer to win than the Champions League. Doesn't make it a top priority. Not to mention, "difficulty" is totally subjective and also depends on the point of view. For example, I can see Atletico Madrid winning the CWC in 2014 but no way in hell are they winning La Liga in 2014. To them, La Liga is tougher to win (they would have to play amazing for 8-9 months continuously as opposed to just getting hot for 2 months).
The supercup can be won by taking the EL route, which makes it easier to win than the CL. What also makes it easier is what it represents, which is nothing. Meaningless trophies are easier to win because nothing is at stake. If AtMa wins the CWC next year, their league accomplishments right now will be part of that feat. So it's not just them getting hot for 2 months. It's their CL qualifying right now, plus the arduous task of winning Europe, where they'll have to best both Barca and Madrid. So we're talking being hot for 2 years. Thus making the CWC harder to win than the league, though not by much thanks to the 4 slots.
There's a huge difference between finishing 1st and finishing top 4 though. About 40 points to be precise. In the case of Atletico, they just have to play well to be top 4. To win La Liga they would have to play out of their skin non-stop for 8-9 months. Impossible dream. You grouping both of these accomplishments under "hot" is a bit silly. CL for them is unlikely, but if they get a nice draw like Madrid got this year, for example, then certainly not impossible.
Depends where you play. What you say is true if you play for a South American club. If you play in the Mexican or New Zealand league your odds go up dramatically. Same for Japan since the host gets an automatic representative (mickey-mouse rule BTW). There's a reason why some of the same clubs have returned to the CWC 3-4 times already in its short history.
Ok, getting 4th is lukewarm. Winning the CL then CWC makes up for the gap in between 1 and 4. It's a monstrous accomplishment that supercedes the 40 extra points that Barca earned over them by playing solely Spanish clubs. AtMa would have the last laugh.
Trust me, Seedorf is the tip top of shape. He has Maldini' thign going on, where he'll play deep into his late 30s or early 40s.
I do agree with what you say, but realistically speaking the chances of Atletico winning the Champions are also relatively small. Sure if I had to put money down between them winning the league or winning the champions I would give them a better opportunity of winning the champions, but I would be trowing my money away in both cases.
That is one good thing about Estaduais: it helps players regain their form without it being too demanding. In Europe, you simply find way too many Mickey Mouse Cups that everyone wants to win (FA Cup, Community Shield, League Cup WTF is that???!!!), thus, players get burned out way too fast. In Brasil, we at least have a straight-thru pyramid system that is followed through the year.
They would get the last laugh obviously (just like if Madrid or Dortmund win the CL they would get the last laugh over their domestic rivals who killed them in the league). BUT... All you have to do is go to any betting site and you'll see its easier for teams like Atletico to win CL than their league. Which means its easier for them to win CWC since that becomes only one tough game away after you win CL. Probably, but then again Liverpool won CL recently. A team simply not good enough to win England.
For your information the FA cup is the most watched domestic cup competition in the world! Anyway I am suprised to see you are still here with us, after your last rant I thought perhaps you had 'exploded' with anger!
It still doesn't change the fact that it is a Mickey Mouse competition that literally serves no purpose at all. For what it offers, if anything, or could offer, which is the case, the Premier League and its predecessor covers it in more ways than one. Why would I implode from anger over strangers who know nothing of the sport? I simply stated the facts. You don't like 'em? I don't care.
Lol. Dude, betting odds do not decide what is harder or easier to achieve. It is true that winning league, then CL the next year>>>finishing 4th, then winning CL next year. But, placing 4th + winning CL+ CWC>winning the league. Because winning the CL then CWC is so monstrous, and most importantly, is against the best of the best internationally, it is harder to do that than just win the league. Not by much, but CWC still wins. You have to play more games to win the CWC, and there is increased magnitude as you get closer to the promised land. The additional clincher is that you play international teams you hardly have ever played before who are the best in their leagues, and offer a different style, which adds to the difficulty. Re:2005 Liverpool. We can't assume they wouldn't have been good enough to win the league that year if they didn't have CL commitments. CL commitments offer teams an excuse for their league results. Like Xolos right now, for example. I will not judge them by their league form, since they have Lib commitments. Thus, they are excused like Liverpoolin 2005.
You gotta stop with the "best of the best internationally" comment. It's cute and all, but hard to take you seriously after you repeat it so often. While quality is a factor, the field of teams in the CWC are mainly determined by geography. You make it sound prestigious and difficult, but the reality is the UEFA team always cruises into the final of the CWC. The competition apart from the Libertadores winner is weak. It's feeble. Like Ukraine. To some extent, yes. But in this case Liverpool were some 35 points behind the English title winners, so your argument is weak to say the least. Especially since the team they were 35 points behind in the league also had Champions League commitments (just played 1 game less and that extra game was played after the finish of the EPL season )
Just commenting on this part. In South America it is extremely common for teams participating on the Libertadores to simply put their National League aside and concentrate on their continental championship. It's also really common for teams in Brasil which have qualified for the continental championship to take the rest of the year trying out new player and getting set for the continental season the following year. My guess would be that in Brasil because it's so much harder to get into the continental championship due to the competitiveness of the league, teams value that much higher than our national league. So Liverpool not being Barcelona, Real, Man U, Bayern, AC Milan or even smaller teams which dominates their leagues like Porto, Shaktar or Ajax, They do not get a shot at the CL every year (missed past 4) and for them it's easier to concentrate on a knock off tournament where they have a good enough team to beat somebody on an off night, than a league which is dominated by Man U. So I guess it's acceptable for your National goal to be qualify for the continental.
Mickey Mouse cups are cups that nobody wants to win - that's what makes them Mickey Mouse. The League Cup is a good example, most top teams (bar Chelsea) couldn't give a damn unless they're in dire need of a trophy. I'm not sure why you'd consider the FA Cup Mickey Mouse, but not the State Championships. Both have a rich history. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that many teams rest players in the State Championship if they're competing in the Copa Libertadores. The SCs also have more games than the English domestic cups, so overall when you lump in the Copa do Brasil, there are more games for Brazilian players.
The format of the State Championships allows teams in contention to send B teams. In Sao Paulo, for example, the first eight teams of the table enter a KO stage. Last year, there was a difference of 21 points between 1st and 8th. That is how bad the format is: a lot of dead-rubber matches have stagnated the competition which is why there is a big push to do regional championships, instead, while changing the format of the Brasileirao. State championship formats from those like Rio de Janeiro and Rio Grande do Sul (which are atrocious to say the least), are even worse. So bad, I don't even want to think about it. And don't mistake the value the Libertadores is given in Brazil for what I suspect you are thinking: there are plenty of Brazilians (like me) who think that competition is a waste of time and money, a really bad joke on sports in general. As a matter of fact, Corinthians were inches away from pulling out all-together from that ridiculous travesty. I certainly hope Santistas will find the intelligence and character to do the same. Hell, between the animalistic way Europeans played during the 1966 WC, the violence commonly practiced by Argentines and Uruguayans and the lack of player integrity was enough reason for Brazil, in general, to pull out of the Libertadores from 1967 to 1970 and internatinal football in general. Only two Brazilian teams participated in between those two editions. Others, like Santos, qualified but declined to participate since international friendlies were far more lucrative. That is why you saw so many Argentine teams dispute that travesty called "Intercontinental Cup" in the late 1960s/early to mid 1970s and we all know how that ended... The State Championships are more financially lucrative than the Libertadores. That, by itself, says a whole lot. But never mind that; at least the State Championships, however outdated they may be, serves a pyramidal purpose. The FA Cup, on the other hand, is literally worthless and can't even justify its own existence. The only other competition I am familiar with which is even more worthless than that is the Copa Sudamericana which is simply another form of Libertadores, held on the 2nd half of the year, pays even less money than the chunk change the Libertadores offers and serves absolutely no purpose at all.