Big chance created is defined as a chance where a player is one-on-one with a keeper or when a player shoots from a very close range. My point is that we can't watch every game and remember every pass, every dribble, every goal, and for every player so we can compare them. Stats are not perfect (although they are close) but they are the best tool we have for comparing players. There are also all-round stats like whoscored rating which account for pass length, part of the field, goal type, basically everything there is, so that can reflect "brilliance" as you say, the problem is that their rating goes back to 2009/10 season. Here are interesting articles with really detailed analysis that you will like, so please read them all the way: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/messi-is-better-than-maradona-but-maybe-not-pele/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/ And i will watch Laudrup video when i have time and count dribbles to compare my results to yours.
And one more thing, i'm not sure are people the ones that count stats or computer programs that track every movement and event. For example people sure don't track distance covered stat.
Best tool for collecting data and observing trends? I could agree on that description I think. And thanks for the Laudrup video watching (although you don't have to - only if you'd find it interesting yourself).
I'm sorry that is an utterly inappropriate and illogical comparison. It is up to the person making a point to prove it, and it is up to the party accusing someone of guilt to prove it.
They are accusing someone of putting wrong stats so it's up to them to prove it. Anyway we verified the stats so it's not important. And i have to say that i didn't put perfect analogy so your point has sense to it.
I watched it, it's always interesting to watch Laudrup play. I counted 12 dribbles, there was a few times where he just kinda went to the side but didn't really pass a player and one time where he got past a player but stumbled and didn't keep possession of the ball. Those are perhaps the thing you that are the difference in our counting. As for the tackle thing, no a player doesn't have to be tackled, if a defender just jockeys but the attacker still manages to go past him it's a successful dribble.
Thanks - I just read the description quickly but was wondering if the defender had to attempt a tackle (but thanks for clarifying that basically jockeying counts too). I counted one for the play leading to the goal where his poke is blocked by the keeper and Elkjaer taps in (for the dribble on the edge of the box where the defender gets a touch on the ball but obviously Laudrup takes it on after that - thinking basically that Laudrup had gone past him and maintained possession). Maybe you didn't count that one that I did, but also maybe going to the side (I'd have to check again - I did count the croqueta in the first half even though it was static because he evaded the defender and kept possession).
you're right Pele came back to NT (after retire from WC66 to protest against FIFA rules) and became more a playmaker in MF in WC70. Plus he was passed his peak (since 68) but still among the 10 best at time 68-76 One blindly based on the OPTA which only counted from 66 on ward to conclude = misinformed and ignorant. Pele at WC62 did a nice dribble run (passed 4 players) and scored vs Mexico. Messi could never did that at 3 WC attempts so far. Pele made 6ass in 1 WC70 > all Messi creation at 3WCs LOL
Sorry for my poor English. Pele wasn't at his best in 1970, that's what Tostao told his son (read it at the end of this video) : Even Maradona wasn't at his best in 1990 when he was 29, was he? About dribbling stats in World Cup, that tells us about players style, and that doesn't -necessarily- reflect there dribbling ability. Why dribbling around while he can just shoot or score? and I don't know, did these stats include successful dribbling in the middle, far far away from goal which Julio Cesar did once in the last World Cup?
yes and no! Stats still relied on "human" to count and make notes for data ... and that "human = naked eye " as well. We just have to "trust" Castrol *FIFA, or Opta or Whoscored ... teams (whoever got hired to that dirty work) did his job "correct" ==================================================== But luckily ,,,, Castrol (a FIFA Stats approved source) did also confirm that: Maradona got 7.6 dribbled successful per game as the "most dribbler in number and in successful rate" in WC history now 7.6 * 7games = 53.2 (or 53) successful dribbles at WC1986. So 53 was a correct number
After seeing the new videos of Pele on You Tube, I am absolutely certain about what a great dribbler Pele was. He was not inferior to anyone in that department. I wouldn't say he was superior to Maradona in dribbling, but he was at least as good, while being more inventive. Stats of the number of players passed etc. cannot prove anything because they are not weighted. There are too many variables to account for (e.g., which part of the field, quality of defenders passed, formation of opponent, style of play, player's influence, importance of the occasion etc.) to make the raw stats meaningful. So, it is better to avoid making spurious inferences based on some raw stats. If you want to make a proper statistical inference, then account for all the confounding variables in your analysis and run some inferential statistical tests, instead of performing rudimentary mathematical calculations.
it's good that you're very openminded ... I would not say I watched a lot of Pele, but I did watch more than many out there to appreciate his talent Also, Pele did a lot of tricks (that years later, people would be thrilled with Rivelino's step over, Cruijff turn, Maradona's 360 , Ronaldo's move and chop ... or even some called Messi pingpong ... Thanks to the Video Camera technology) So For me, I said Pele was indeed in TOP3 or at least TOP5 best dribblers in history, but often many list out there put him around 6 to 9 - not much underrated but a bit misinformed since lacking of footages
According to Castrol STATS (FIFA) Maradona made 90+ attempts in dribbling and 53 was successful http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/worldcup/southafrica2010/news/newsid=1223190/index.html El Diego excels... Just two decimal points behind Cruyff is Diego Maradona, who dominated Mexico 1986 with a score of 9.80. The Argentina superstar scored or assisted in 71 per cent of Argentina’s goals but it was Maradona’s dribbling prowess that truly caught the eye. He embarked on 90 dribbles in the competition, three times more than any other player, and 19 of these came in the momentous 2-1 quarter-final victory over England, the most ever attempted in a single FIFA World Cup game between 1966 and 2006. ====================================================== Opta noted 122 duels while Castrol said 90+ dribbling attempts, but they all agreed with 53 as his successful dribbles at WC86
I know, I already posted that he had 90 attempts. As for the duels, he didn't have 122 duels, he had 122 duels WON, and 73 lost. And about the castrol rating, i think we can all agree that it's a joke, penalizing players for not playing, for exiting in earlier rounds, kempes 78>maradona 86, lato 74>maradona 86 and so on.
I would not say OPta or Castrol are a joke. They did a hard work to put up stats for Football (which is so difficult) Ratings are either "Subjective" (if by experts ) or "Objective" (if by STATS source like Opta/Castrol ) It's so dependent on how they put up the "POINT SYSTEM" in each (valid?) category to sum them all up at the end (like how Ronaldo got 9.89 > Maradona 9.8- Hence that's the "weakness" of the ratings ... For me I do not take those ratings as a bible (like R9 > Maradona > Pele at WC? ) - but surely they are a good source of reference (all those who scored 9.5-9.9 were having a very good to great WC)
It's fair to say that, i agree. I was too harsh about calling it a joke, but there are better overall ratings out there like whoscored. As a measure of reliability i look at how close it is to league table when applied to teams. I did a survey a while ago comparing it to squawka performance rating and whoscored rating came victorious by a large margin, and there is also this: http://www.brotherlygame.com/2014/1...-index-versus-whoscored-rating-versus-squawka The article is bad written but it gives results.
You are right ... I do not mean nor that I have any business to defend Opta/Castrol for WC66-10 stats ... however, It's easier for Whoscored or Squawka to do stats at "LIVE" games now with all kind of technology like multi cameras, videomixer and replay ... rather than Castrol or Opta had to collect all games (not sure if tehy had all WC games video available in full 90mins, and even so, not sure of teh quality of picture to make it clear) For that reality we can not just say Whoscored is a better STATS system tham say Castrol/Opta In fact, FIFA adopted Castrol as official STats cource, while most big leagues in Europe like EPL, Bundesliga... had long adopted OPTA as the main STATS source (since early 2000's for drafting players and monitoring a team playing in form)
They use the same system for MLS now, so yes, we can say that they have better system. But i do agree that it's a lot easier to track the stats now, and i'm also highly convinced that they did examine every game of every world cup from 66-14 otherwise they would not publish these stats and i believe that is the reason why they couldn't go further, they just didn't have the source for every game of 62, 58 etc. world cup.
Couple questions... What happens if a player dribbles past a defender for some yards but the defender closes him down and regains position? Isn't that technically simultaneously a successful dribble by definition but unsuccessful by default? Is one awarded for each defender on the same play or can you go by 5 defenders and its only one successful dribble? Is there a minimum yardage the dribble must account for? Who's defining 'success?'...This has always been the most baseless and overly abused statistic imo.
good point ... but I guess they would count as 1 successful dribble and 1 duel lost (or dispossessed) Anyway that was why for almost 100 years STATS were never applied to Football until lately
A good example is with Garrincha's dribbling style for fun. Usually if he dribbled passed an opponent so easily, and if he saw the lad was stunning unprepared , he would be happily U-turn and let that guy having a 2nd chance to challenge him until he will be fully convinced that he could be fooled even he is well prepared. Now how can we count those occasions?