Is Payne the Jerry Krause NBA-Chicago GM) of MLS?

Let's look at the totality of the Kevin Payne era.

Kevin Payne has been associated with the direction of this team for all of its eight seasons. In that time, the club has been to four MLS Cups, winning three of them. And it has also won the Concacaf Champions and the InterAmerican Cup (not to mention smaller honors like the US Open Cup and our 2000 pre-season, coin-flip-decided championship in Florida).

Not a bad resume. In fact, no one in the league has one that comes close.

Have we had a bad run the past few seasons? Sure. But I'm willing to acknowledge that what Kevin Payne has delivered for us fans in eight seasons is beyond anything we deserve.

So I say thanks, Kevin.

 

The sh*it didn't hit the fan as soon as Arena left. We won an MLS Cup a full year after he was gone.

 

Perhaps my memory is faulting me, but Bruce Arena was just about the biggest -- and most influential -- proponent of DCU hiring Tom Rongen that there was. To describe it as a Kevin Payne decision without Bruce Arena's insight is flat-out 100% wrong.

 

Lots of people like to say that the 1999 squad was Arena's, and gives him credit rather than Tom Rongen.

Why doesn't anyone ever then say that the 2000 crapfest -- with the same players Arena assembled -- was anything other than Rongen's?

I'm all for calling spades spades. I also think Tom Rongen deserves credit for winning an MLS championship. Just as I will assign him blame for 2000 and 2001.

As for Arena and Sarachan, where is the evidence? Everything I have ever heard about the situation is that Bruce actively pushed Tom Rongen for the job.

 

Again, perhaps it's my memory playing tricks on me, but I specifically recall Bruce saying in the papers that he had backed Rongen for the job. Now, I may be wrong on that. Anyone else care to comment?

 

I think the criticism of Kevin Payne here is extreme and one-sided. True--KP has his faults. He has a short temper, isn't as open with fans as he should be, sometimes procrastinates with decisions (and the time lag ends up hurting us or limiting options) and he strikes me as arrogant at times. That said...

1. Organizations DO make a difference. Peter Wilt makes a world of difference in Chicago. DCU was more than just Arena. He may have been a critical part but he wasn't the only thing. And don't forget, he originally didn't want to come here. But Payne hung on, gave him time, compromised (by letting him coach the Olympic side as well), gave him job security (who thinks the folks in LA that canned Osiander a year after an MLS final b/c he started slowly would have tolerated Bruce in his first year? Don't think so). He provided support and infrastructure for younger players (like letting Convey room at his house--that ain't as small an issue as it seems b/c without that his parents don't okay him going into the draft).

2. As for Sarachan and Yallop, that was very much an issue of timing. And it was RONGEN that brought in Yallop. When Bradley, Sarachan and Yallop were available to be hired (with exception of when DS was a DCU assistant with no recent headman experience), DCU already had a coach under contract. If Arena had left one year earlier or stayed one year longer, if Rongen had been retained one extra year....at least one of those assistants would have been DCU's head coach.

3. Let's be consistent here. DCU wins some titles--and it's due to the coach. DCU misses the playoffs and it's due to...the President/GM? Seems a little convenient to excuse success on the coach but blame failure not on the coach but on the GM/Prez (especially when Payne has provided oversight but has had little to do with operations and day-to-day stuff with DCU the past 2 years).

4. And even if one believes just half of what is written or said that is negative about Kevin Payne, let's be real clear here--there are a lot of people who attempted to handle the business side of a soccer franchise and have ended up stinking like a dead flounder on a dock. Look at how badly run most of NASL was. For a more recent example, take at look at WUSA--where some franchises were incapable of breaking even if they had sold out their stadiums and they spent 5 years worth of revenue in their initial season. You can find plenty of examples of MLS franchises that have been poorly administered, less respectiful of fans and worse decisions than DCU at even the past 4 years.

Jerry Krause had an ego problem with Michael Jordan. He was determined to prove he could win without Jordan--that's my take. KP may have an ego but that didn't prompt the breakup of the team. And I can't believe people are still lambasting him for trading Agoos, Williams, Llamosa, Otero. That team that year (prior to those deals), posted the worst defense in MLS and the vets dramatically underperformed.

 

Again, I think the comparision to Krause is way off-base. Krause simply wasn't a good GM. Payne is well regarded with soccer in North America.

Payne didn't break up "the backbone of a championship team." That team missed the playoffs, the defense was horrid. As for arguing Williams was critical--he was on a downhill slope and wasn't especially effective the year afterwards with Metro or the next year back in DC.

Harkes was sold under Arena. And it was under Arena that Harkes lost his captaincy (I hope you're not blaming that on Payne). And it's pretty simple math to see that DCU had to sell either Raul Diaz-Arce or Harkes (since Pope, Moreno and Etchverry were on top of their games and pretty much untouchable) at the time. In fact, a year after selling Harkes, we then sell RDA--also for cap reasons. Every year in MLS, DCU has seen players like Tony Sanneh, Ben Iroha and on and on leave the team. Are you arguing that is all about Payne's ego and not about the cap? Add up the numbers, even rough numbers. When Etcheverry and Moreno and Pope (after about his 3rd or 4th year) are making MLS max salary, you can't have others making big bucks.

 

Wow - I think I just lost half my brain cells reading this non-sensical babble. I was really waiting for the shooter on the grassy knoll to enter the story or to hear "The Truth is out there"

Oh lord - where to begin. Do you actually believe that there is no salary cap and we just willy nilly trade players that Payne doesn't like - oh yes, to other teams he overseas nonetheless. Because, that is what you are saying about Pope. Payne hated Pope so much he traded him to another team Payne oversaw. I won't even go into the fact that Kasper made that trade.

And lets touch on the Bruce Arena and coaching topic. What exactly was Payne to do about Bruce leaving? It wasn't like Phil Jackson (to use your piss poor comparison) where Phil departed because he and Jerry didn't see eye to eye. Bruce had accomplished all he could in DC and had a chance to coach the national team. It was already noted that Bruce lobbied heavily for Rongen. So is Bruce at fault rather than Payne - one could certainly make that argument. And the other coaches you mentioned left DC for better opportunities - not because they hated Payne.

And last but not least - what was Payne supposed to get for these players. Our back was to the wall and everyone knew it. We are lucky we didnt walk away with magical beans. You didn't mention that we got a second round pick for Arce under Bruce's regime. In that draft following the 2000 break-up - we got Nelsen, Lisi, Q, and Namoff in the top two rounds. While Q and Lisi are disappointing, the other two seem to be contributing nicely.

I lied - one last point - I Payne resented Williams so much why did he bring him back to DC?

 

Sniff Sniff, is that a troll I smell out there. Better watch out for the sunlight

 

Where's yours? Arena was widely quoted as giving his endorsement of Rongen. After Rongen was fired who hired him to coach the U-20's, the USSF with the endorsement of Arena who has some serious clout on who coaches what youth team for the Federation.