we all like to complain about latin players playing dirty, hacks, criminal tackles etc. then i see dema kovalenko and that CRIMINAL TACKLE and i see mls becoming like all the other leagues in the americas. and of course martino and beasley getting fouled like 30 times a game
I think that it is. I am tired of seeing below average defenders get passed off as legitimate because they play an ultra-physical game. And I'm sick of the argument, "Well, if you think its physical here, you should see it the defenders in England." Its unattractive soccer and frankly I dont like to watch it.
and i forgot to mention franchino in the revs vs san jose game. one good thing out of all this is that you can tell how serious mls players are becoming and the passion for winning is there.
Re: Re: Is MLS turning into a dirty league? I'll agree with that. It may not be just in MLS, but because the refs do not call the game as the rules dictate, players know they can get away with those types of tackles. As such the tackles occur more often and players with marginal skills earn spots on a team even though they take more away from the game than they add.
Man, Are there anymore dead horses left for you burn folks to flog? Frankly, I think I now have my vote for my MLS team to always root against.... G.
Donovan beat Rusty Pierce off the dribble one time and Pierce flat-out reached out and grabbed him, and no foul was called much less the yellow for the professional foul. The biggest problem though is, in my opinion, the unintentional but reckless fouling that results from over-aggressiveness. Wolyniec is a huge dude (his sole reason for being out there) and he absolutely crunched somebody the other day. It was obvious he didn't mean to and all he was doing was trying to beat the defender to the ball and didn't get there in time, but that still doesn't mean it's not a yellow card. It's reckless. The defender was 75 yards from goal and players have to learn that if they're going to go in that hard for a ball, they have a yellow waiting for them if they don't get there in time. What they'll learn is that there's no point risking a yellow when the team is an eternity from goal and to let them have the ball. The end result is a more open and flowing game. I always laugh when people who watch other leagues talk about how MLS players aren't used to the physical style of play in England or wherever. Have they ever actually watched this league? It can be downright brutal with it's physicality sometimes. The abuse that guys like Ruiz and Beasley take because they're sp elusive is a little disturbing. Sure they embellish, but they're still getting fouled. Hip-checking DaMarcus Beasley as he runs by you is not legal, even if you think he embellished his fall. We want to avoid a scenario like Hockey where 25 years down the line the league suddenly realizes it's let everyone get away with "hooking" for the last 20 years and the game has become more like pinball than hockey. I think the league needs to crackdown while it still can.
While I agree with the ideas here, no one should blame any player for the trend the league has taken. Sure, there are hacks in every single league in the world. Those hacks are typecast by the people in their leagues just like ours are. The difference is, that in most respectable leagues, these players either shape up or ship out. Our league governs like its walking on egg shells. They dont want to seem like they're running a dictatorship for fear of scaring off potential big names. I also believe the dont honestly want players like Dema, Franchino, McKeon, etc. to be given permission to hack away. In the end it comes down to the league and most importantly the REFS to keep things under control. For another discussion: As much as DMB is fouled, he also goes down easy. And as small as he is, the fouls look worse than they are. And as small as he is, the fouls hurt him more than they would other players. You can't blame more physical players for going shoulder to shoulder with a guy thats blowing by them. Shoulder to shoulder by rule is acceptable, yet when DMB goes shoulder to shoulder he hits the deck and gets a foul call. Just as the refs must crack down, they must also not be naive.
Three of four yellow cards given to the Rapids saturday when they played the Metro were committed against Amado Guevara, a talented Honduran attacking mid. Does that answer the question or was this just a coincidence?
The MLS is a dirty league? Then yah Complain why MLS players keep getting Red carded in the TFC CC games...
I agree with everyone. Basically, MLS already is a dirty league, depending on how you define "dirty". The hacks get away with too much, the refs are too lenient, the inmates run too much of the asylum, and despite MLS' seemingly best intentions, they can't seem to get it under control. Sheesh. They've said they monitor the boards here and if they were monitoring today, they know they had one helluva bad weekend and one bad start to the season in terms of offensive flow, refs keeping control of the rough play, low offensive production, etc. Despite the best intentions...
Re: The MLS is a dirty league? Quality of MLS refereeing is well below the quality of the players. While some CONCACAF officiating is questionable, it seems to me it comes much closer to the world norm than what I see in MLS games. Apart from the failure to call tackling from behind, etc., MLS refs tolerate a level of dissent that is inappropriate and unacceptable virtually anywhere in the soccer world but here. VS is dead on right that a card for dissent in a TFC CC game should not come as any surprise. Now if we are talking phantom handballs in WCQ matches, that's a whole different discussion.
There is a different between being dirty and being physical. I don't see a lot of dirty plays in the league when someone is out there to injure people on purpose. MLS is already too soft as it is.
Yes, of course, there is. It's "physical" when the player is on your team, and "dirty" when it's your opponent. Later, COZ
I know that in the Mexican League, if a player deliberately injures another player, that player is not only suspended until the player is recuperated but pays a huge fine (in some cases does not get paid until the injured player is practising again)
Not to split hairs, but I'd say Ruiz dishes it out just as much as he takes it. He's probably the dirtiest forward in the league. I'm also tired of hearing about Beasley. BenC is right...when someone goes shoulder to shoulder on him, he falls. Some of them are embellishments, but some are just that he's genuinely too light. What is a defender supposed to do, go easy on him because he's smaller? Yes, MLS could benefit from tighter officiating (though, more consistency would be better than simply making things more uniformly strict), but I don't want to see preferential treatment for someone like Ruiz just because he's skilled. Of course, recent events involving DC players will probably lead to no one listening to a word of this.
Physics demands that DMB will get turfed occasionally. He gets way too many fouls on ordinary legal shoulder challenges though. He's so slight it always looks worse live; sort of like Charlie Brown post-liner up the middle. I'm all for the physical game. I like seeing little guys (and big ones) knocked on their can if they are off-balance. It's a game of balance, so tell DMB to get some or learn how to pass. I'm also for skill and bocu cards if the situation warrants. Don't blame the players, their job is to do whatever they can get away with doing. It's up to the refs. Just pull the cards.
Re: Re: Is MLS turning into a dirty league? He led the league in fouls committed last year with 71. With that number he outpaced his nearest rival - Pareja - by seven fouls. Last year he also suffered 71 fouls. I guess that means he broke even.
MLS lacks quality defenders with true ball skills, therefore it's made up for in tenacity and physicality. When the players become more skillful, the amounts of ugly tackles and rough play should diminish and a more stylish type of soccer will evolve here. This will not happen overnight.
Pierce was closer to the ball than Landon, and stuck his arm out when he was shielding Landon off the ball. There's now way that's a yellow, and the only way that Rusty would get a pk called on that would be if he were playing for the US in Guatamala. The defender who should have gotten at least one yellow was Agoos, who twice went through Twellman (the most fouled player in the league last year) to get to the ball. Jeff laid a nice body block on Twellman late in the game. As for Beasley, he gets fouled a lot, but he's no angel. He doesn't miss too many chances to shove, trip, or low-bridge players.
Isn't Tide a sponsor? I actually agree with Fah that the league has been a little soft. I do think that guys like Franchino should get more yellows for obvious hack jobs. Tape should be reviewed to see if additional fines or suspensions are warranted - if that's happening, then Joey sits a game for his attack on Martino. But Franchino's only going to do what his coach and the refs allow him to get away with. The league is crawling with teenage rookies now, and MLS defenders have obviously agreed on the message those rookies need to receive. I'm actually happy to see some of these young punks who like to take people on - God bless 'em -get knocked to the ground. A hip check, trip, sandwich or clothes-line is very different from what Dema did, and I look upon it as the professional seasoning of our next generation.
Agreed. But, as you pointed out, there is a difference between the way Mike Clark plays and Tyrone Marshall. One is tough. The other is dirty. Mike Clark isn't afraid to drop someone, but he's not going to do so by jumping in recklessly. (Clark's had 43 yellows and 3 reds in over 18,000 minutes, and hasn't been ejected since 1998... and he's only committed 300 fouls! It's alot, but it's only about 2/3rds of what Richie Williams has.) We need to eliminate the assaults. There seems to have been about one major assault that goes unpunished per weekend, Dema's just being the most flagrant. Marshall's tackle on Paule in the season opener was just as heinous, even if the end result wasn't.