Hahaha, good luck at the interview! Ultimately I think you're right that ratings shouldn't be retroactively altered after future consequences, but I think that's just a limitation of this style of match ratings (and all match ratings really) that our broader judgment and consensus doesn't have.
That is a good point. In our head, future events influence how we perceive past performances. That is true.
Every single Xavi touch in the opposition half. 1st half vs. Italy. (Subbed out around the 70th) 🏆POTT Euro 2008: Xavi1st Half vs Italy - every touch in opposition half. Legendary pic.twitter.com/MmzPtnA3PB— Kylian's Kompany (@someballfacts) July 16, 2024
How to get 100% pass completion in opposition half and 8+ ratings on Sofascore: 🏆POTT Euro 2008: Xavi1st Half vs Italy - every touch in opposition half. Legendary pic.twitter.com/MmzPtnA3PB— Kylian's Kompany (@someballfacts) July 16, 2024
What would you rate Xavi's perfomance in this match out of 10? Also, without trying to lead your answer, the more I revisit Spain 2008 the less convinced I am of Xavi being the the undisputed best player. Senna seems to get more media selections for tournament Xls and Villa was great (though he missed the final). Xavi doesn't actually appear in most tournament Xls I've seen. Nor does he have an official POTM in the tournament. Actually, Xavi doesn't seem to have single UEFA POTM in a Euro tournament at all. How do you evaluate Xavi so far in 2008?
Xavi has only a 7.0 for this match. Senna, like a few other games, the MOTM and/or best rated midfielder. No it is not 100% watertight but in this instance there is daylight between Senna and Xavi.
I am going through the russia match right now actually. I had my opinion in 2008 and I am revisiting all the footage now. Will give you a full answer But what I think essentially happened is that Castrol Ratings was made the official stats provider for Euro 2008 and they had an aggregate scoring system - sort of like SofaScore. After the final, Xavi was chosen as POTT likely because he was the highest rated player who played the final AND was on the Castrol shortlist. Or perhaps he ended up as the highest rated "Castrol Ratings" player. Or he was on the shortlist and the expert panel voted on him after his final performance. It is not clear from the official press release. What is clear is that the process diverges from any other POTT ever given before or after
Why lying tho? He didn't get an 8+. He didn't have 100% passing accuracy. These are only his touches in the opposition's half with possibly plays that are not shown and 25 minutes of his performance is missing.. He got 7 for that performance so literally your point and middle school sarcasm falls into pieces. You literally made an argument against yourself, by demonstrating that this kind of ("side")passing is NOT enough for 8+ performance on Sofascore. I mean how can anyone take seriously any of your words after this?
You are incredible. I am obviously not lying. It's a point I am making. Sofascore is easily verifiable and this is not 100% passing accuracy as the video itself shows you. You are clinically insane if you cannot read into sarcasm
You are making a joke about how football algorithms are crazy, unreliable, stupid because, for example, they will overrate a performance based on a number of successful sidepasses with no impact. Then underneath, you share a video of Xavi's sidepassing in the game making the joke that this is how you get 8+ performance by Sofascore. WHILE IN FACT, he didn't get 8+ for that very performance, by which you directly made an argument against the original point - the same very joke you made. I am not sure how the irony of your baseless joke is not obvious to you. It is like laughing and trashtalking at sprinters behind you in a marathon race, while getting lapped. Very funny, congrats. Sarcasm requires a tell, and if the other member didn't say that he got 7, i would of taken your words at face value (that he got 8+)
You are one angry little fellow. Nobody took this seriously but you. I think everybody understood that the point was that rating systems cannot distinguish between the quality of a positive vs neutral pass. I should not have to spell it out for you. If you need help, go back to querying CHATGPT
Full Xavi performance vs Russia 🏆EURO 2008 POTT: XAVI vs Russia - full performanceEvery single touch in opposition half + every pass into opposition half.Nabs a key goal! pic.twitter.com/5xye5Z43Mq— Kylian's Kompany (@someballfacts) July 16, 2024
I am pretty sure nobody understood that to be a (baseless) joke except for you.. Readers deserve clarity on your tactics and antics and you need to be accounted for your words. You can't keep misleading and insinuating stuff without being accounted for.
Yes... He got a 7.7 there, and was subbed out prematurely. This time 0.7 higher as Senna. Below Fabregas, David Silva, Capdevilla, Marchena and Sergio Ramos. In other words: it detects Xavi was good but not the best of his team. The algorithm is arguably less good for teams that pace themselves and play in bursts. I don't say it is 100% watertight. But neither is kicker or Gazzetta where all sorts of things kick in and who have put shamelessly 11 Germans in a world xi previously, when asked to make one. This was a Russia team that suddenly ran 1.5km per player less and had their intensity reduced with 50%. Also no strangely cancelled red cards this time (one minute after the red card is shown). Against all protocol and later admitted by UEFA itself. Guus Hiddink was Russia manager, didn't know everything (need to know, plausible deniability), but is also not stupid or silly. He has said some 'puzzling' and cryptic things, as well as clear things. The algorithm 'detects' Marcos Senna was 'better' than Xavi in the first three matches they played together (the first Russia game close). Including the Italy match that went to penalties. Then not in the semi final, yes, and in the final the algorithm shows Xavi positioned well ahead of Senna this time, with Senna keeping it tidy and basic, sitting in front of his defense. N.B. for me Modric is indeed better and 'greater' than Xavi. I am leaning to putting Modric a full tier higher.
For me that's genuinely an excellent performance (though yes other Spain players/midfielders also did very well in the game), but a couple of the 2010 World Cup games you posted similar things for are in contrast to that re: his performance level (not to say I think he was better in 2007/08 in general compared to 2009/10 - for sure I don't).
I think his goal was genuinely phenomenal imo (for multiple reasons - he participated in its construction, difficult, the run into the 9 position, go ahead goal) , but I found him passable in general play. Not poor - but within the general expectation of an average CM. Some bright spots on the counters when the game turned 1-0. But certainly a MUCH more positive performance than the Italy match.
And you're hatewatching me? I'm not hatewatching Xavi - I rate him as a player. This is a project that I found great interest in doing.
I think some of his turns, passes and control were very good too and he was generally sharp in possession. I'd say 'world class' or 'international class' CM rather than average one to be honest, not that I'm saying it was a performance to make him seem like a Zidane in terms of his touches, or incursions into the danger zones outside of the goal (comparing to Zidane's own best form) or something like that which is maybe where you are coming from (though we're now on a Modric thread not that Xavi/Iniesta/Zidane one).
I guess perceptions, opinions and the weighing of the observations may vary but I'd say this as three reasons: Longevity: this is of diminished importance for me because you also need fortune and luck for this. But let me say Sofascore has 7.5+ rated games for him in each tournament between 2008 and 2024, except for 2012 (7.2 Ireland with yellow card, 6.8 Italy, 7.3 Spain). Cristiano Ronaldo just very marginally surpasses this, with one 7.5 game at euro 2004 (the rest is meh) and poor ratings in 2022 (lower than Modric in 2012). Lothar Matthaus has this between 1984 and 1998 (thanks to the Iran game), to give an idea. Maldini only between 1990 and 1998 (but not euro 1996, all 7.0 or lower). Yes, football has moved on, there has been expansion of tournaments, but purely in number of years he is ahead of some of the names associated the most with this. Xavi has this between 2002 and 2012, just ten years. Peak level: Xavi went up a level with Guardiola, in perception and reality (his distance run increased with 10-15%). Before that he was also (very) good but more like how Bernardo Silva is good, or how Kimmich for Bayern is good (yet with marked flaws too, especially for what happens behind his back). How Frenkie de Jong is good (with my orange glasses on: even better, as good as Gundogan while in injured state). I think when you take Xavi his four best years (2008 and 2012; there is reason to believe the first half of the 2012 year was already on the downward slope), it is ahead of Modric. If you take three years or two years there isn't much between them honestly - others might think otherwise. Keep in mind Modric already turned 30 in september 2015. His first Real Madrid season was 'not great' (2012-13). So he started his harvesting years when he close to 28. That's the same age as Xavi was in 2008. In the 2013-14 Champions League he has one 7.5+ game after the other (8.0+ in both quarter finals, 2nd leg semi-final and the final). Modric has already noteworthy and consequential games before mid-2008. 'Completeness': again, others might think otherwise but I think Modric is more complete. He can function at a high level in many different teams and set-ups. People observe the five years younger Kroos is equal or ahead in the indexes; yes, getting the best out of your players is part of it. Kroos has clear weaknesses, consistently leans on tactical fouling - for me after 2016 or 2018 but the set of weaknesses are already there in the Honigstein book about the 2014 World Cup win (Italy and Pirlo exploiting this in 2012). A midfield with three Modric wins against three Xavis and three Kroos. I do value this yes, looking at the attributes of a player regardless of what they won in a low scoring sport. Without Courtois and Navas, or without refereeing in 2017 (in particular) they don't win all these Champions Leagues. Trophies are an indicator of playing at a certain level but not a lot more than this, for me (standing out for an inferior team is also hard). Maybe I should make a complete game list for Modric...
Similar to the Zidane list, here Modric (b. 09/09/1985). I take 7.5 as minimum because you can be man of the match with this in elite level games (e.g. Cruijff in the 1974 final; Modric has played with #14 as a tribute in the past, as did Xabi Alonso etc.). I said 2017 was Modric last "really great" year and I'd say the overview below confirms that more or less. 18/06/06 - 7.3 vs Japan 22/06/06 - 6.6 vs Australia 08/06/08 - 7.7 vs Austria 12/06/08 - 6.5 vs Germany 20/06/08 - 7.7 vs Turkey (120 minutes) 29/09/10 - 6.3 vs Twente 20/10/10 - 6.1 vs Inter 02/11/10 - 7.6 vs Inter 24/11/10 - 8.5 vs Bremen 15/02/11 - 6.9 vs AC Milan 09/03/11 - 6.9 vs AC Milan 05/04/11 - 6.3 vs Real Madrid 13/04/11 - 6.5 vs Real Madrid 10/06/12 - 7.2 vs Ireland 14/06/12 - 6.8 vs Italy 18/06/12 - 7.3 vs Spain 18/09/12 - 6.8 vs Man City 24/10/12 - 6.7 vs Dortmund 06/11/12 - 6.7 vs Dortmund 21/11/12 - 6.4 vs Man City 04/12/12 - 8.9 vs Ajax 13/02/13 - 6.7 vs Man United 05/03/13 - 8.1 vs Man United 03/04/13 - 6.8 vs Galatasaray 09/04/13 - 7.2 vs Galatasaray 24/04/13 - 6.2 vs Dortmund 30/04/13 - 8.0 vs Dortmund 17/09/13 - 7.4 vs Galatasaray 02/10/13 - 7.7 vs Kobenhavn 23/10/13 - 7.7 vs Juventus 05/11/13 - 7.4 vs Juventus 10/12/13 - 7.7 vs Kobenhavn 26/02/14 - 7.1 vs Schalke 02/04/14 - 8.4 vs Dortmund 08/04/14 - 8.0 vs Dortmund 23/04/14 - 6.9 vs Bayern 29/04/14 - 8.2 vs Bayern 24/05/14 - 8.3 vs Atletico Madrid (120 minutes) 12/06/14 - 7.5 vs Brazil 19/06/14 - 7.3 vs Cameroon 23/06/14 - 6.5 vs Mexico 16/09/14 - 7.7 vs Basel 01/10/14 - 7.2 vs Ludogorets 22/10/14 - 7.0 vs Liverpool 04/11/14 - 7.5 vs Liverpool 10/03/15 - 7.0 vs Schalke 14/04/15 - 7.6 vs Atletico Madrid 15/09/15 - 7.1 vs Shakhtar 30/09/15 - 7.2 vs Malmo 21/10/15 - 6.9 vs PSG 03/11/15 - 7.1 vs PSG 25/11/15 - 8.2 vs Shakhtar 17/02/16 - 6.8 vs Roma 08/03/16 - 7.7 vs Roma 06/04/16 - 6.8 vs Wolfsburg 12/04/16 - 6.7 vs Wolfsburg 26/04/16 - 7.7 vs Man City 04/05/16 - 7.4 vs Man City 28/05/16 - 7.3 vs Atletico Madrid (120 minutes) 12/06/16 - 8.0 vs Turkey 17/06/16 - 7.0 vs Czech Republic 25/06/16 - 7.9 vs Portugal (120 minutes) 14/09/16 - 6.4 vs Sporting 27/09/16 - 7.1 vs Dortmund 22/11/16 - 7.2 vs Sporting 07/12/16 - 6.6 vs Dortmund 15/02/17 - 7.5 vs Napoli 07/03/17 - 6.6 vs Napoli 12/04/17 - 7.7 vs Bayern 18/04/17 - 7.3 vs Bayern (120 minutes) 02/05/17 - 7.5 vs Atletico Madrid 10/05/17 - 7.5 vs Atletico Madrid 03/06/17 - 7.5 vs Juventus 13/09/17 - 7.2 vs APOEL 26/09/17 - 6.9 vs Dortmund 17/10/17 - 7.6 vs Tottenham 01/11/17 - 7.0 vs Tottenham 21/11/17 - 7.8 vs APOEL 14/02/18 - 6.5 vs PSG 03/04/18 - 7.1 vs Juventus 11/04/18 - 6.7 vs Juventus 25/04/18 - 6.7 vs Bayern 01/05/18 - 6.1 vs Bayern 26/05/18 - 7.5 vs Liverpool 16/06/18 - 6.8 vs Nigeria 21/06/18 - 8.0 vs Argentina 26/06/18 - 7.1 vs Iceland 01/07/18 - 8.0 vs Denmark (120 minutes) 07/07/18 - 8.5 vs Russia (120 minutes) 11/07/18 - 6.8 vs England (120 minutes) 15/07/18 - 7.3 vs France 19/09/18 - 8.0 vs Roma 02/10/18 - 6.5 vs CSKA 23/10/18 - 7.1 vs Plzen 27/11/18 - 7.0 vs Roma 13/02/19 - 6.5 vs Ajax 05/03/19 - 6.9 vs Ajax 01/10/19 - 6.7 vs Brugge 06/11/19 - 6.8 vs Galatasaray 26/11/19 - 6.3 vs PSG 11/12/19 - 7.8 vs Brugge 26/02/20 - 6.4 vs Man City 07/08/20 - 6.5 vs Man City 21/10/20 - 7.6 vs Shakhtar 27/10/20 - 7.3 vs Monchengladbach 03/11/20 - 6.5 vs Inter 25/11/20 - 7.3 vs Inter 01/12/20 - 7.1 vs Shakhtar 09/12/20 - 6.9 vs Monchengladbach 24/02/21 - 8.2 vs Atalanta 16/03/21 - 7.8 vs Atalanta 06/04/21 - 7.3 vs Liverpool 14/04/21 - 6.2 vs Liverpool 27/04/21 - 6.1 vs Chelsea 05/05/21 - 7.4 vs Chelsea 13/06/21 - 7.3 vs England 18/06/21 - 7.2 vs Czech Republic 22/06/21 - 8.0 vs Scotland 28/06/21 - 6.8 vs Spain (120 minutes) 15/09/21 - 7.6 vs Inter 28/09/21 - 6.7 vs Sheriff 19/10/21 - 7.8 vs Shakhtar 03/11/21 - 7.0 vs Shakhtar 24/11/21 - 7.4 vs Sheriff 07/12/21 - 6.8 vs Inter 25/02/22 - 7.1 vs PSG 09/03/22 - 8.1 vs PSG 06/04/22 - 6.6 vs Chelsea 12/04/22 - 7.3 vs Chelsea (120 minutes) 26/04/22 - 6.7 vs Man City 04/05/22 - 6.3 vs Man City (120 minutes) 28/05/22 - 7.0 vs Liverpool 06/09/22 - 7.5 vs Celtic 14/09/22 - 7.2 vs Leipzig 11/10/22 - 6.6 vs Shakhtar 02/11/22 - 7.5 vs Celtic 23/11/22 - 7.1 vs Saudi Arabia 27/11/22 - 7.2 vs Canada 01/12/22 - 7.7 vs Belgium 05/12/22 - 6.6 vs Japan (120 minutes) 09/12/22 - 7.5 vs Brazil (120 minutes) 13/12/22 - 7.4 vs Argentina 17/12/22 - 7.2 vs Morocco 21/02/23 - 7.4 vs Liverpool 15/03/23 - 7.0 vs Liverpool 12/04/23 - 7.1 vs Chelsea 18/04/23 - 7.0 vs Chelsea 09/05/23 - 6.8 vs Man City 17/05/23 - 6.6 vs Man City 20/09/23 - 8.2 vs Union Berlin 03/10/23 - 6.6 vs Napoli 24/10/23 - 7.7 vs Braga 08/11/23 - 6.6 vs Braga 12/12/23 - 7.0 vs Union Berlin 06/03/24 - 6.7 vs Leipzig 09/04/23 - 7.1 vs Man City 17/04/23 - 6.7 vs Man City (120 minutes) 30/04/24 - 7.0 vs Bayern 08/05/24 - 6.5 vs Bayern 01/06/24 - 6.5 vs Dortmund 15/06/24 - 6.3 vs Spain 19/06/24 - 8.1 vs Albania 24/06/24 - 7.2 vs Italy @PDG1978 @Krokko @comme - make of this what you want...