🏆WC 2014 - KROOS vs France - 1st HalfEvery touch▶️Assist from set-piece, but highlight video undersells how POOR of a performance this was.▶️Worst outfield player on the pitch surprisingly. ▶️Uncomfortable in advanced position pic.twitter.com/XiewTTt2A6— Kylian's Kompany (@someballfacts) July 17, 2024 Best midfielder that game = Khedira
As usual, the marks in the press (Italian, French and German) look a bit different. Lukita's overall average is 6,41 which places him right between Preben Elkjaer and Michael Laudrup. 2006 World Cup Japan 0-0 : not rated Australia 2-2 : 5,60 average : 5,60 Euro 2008 Austria 1-0 : 6,40 Germany 2-1 : 7,30 Turkey 1-1 : 6,90 average : 6,87 Euro 2012 Ireland 3-1 : 6,80 Italy 1-1 : 6,00 Spain 0-1 6,70 average : 6,50 2014 World Cup Brazil 1-3 : 6,40 Cameroon 4-0 : 6,50 Mexico 1-3 : 5,30 average : 6,07 Euro 2016 Turkey 1-0 : 7,30 [1] Czech Republic 2-2 : 6,80 Portugal 0-1 : 5,70 average : 6,60 2018 World Cup Nigeria 2-0 : 6,80 [1] Argentina 3-0 : 7,40 [1] Iceland 2-1 : 6,20 Denmark 1-1 pen : 6,00 Russia 2-2 pen : 6,80 England 2-1 : 6,40 France 2-4 : 5,60 average : 6,46 Euro 2021 England 0-1 : 6,40 Czech Republic 1-1 : 6,00 Scotland 3-1 : 7,50 [1] Spain 3-5 : 6,40 average : 6,58 2022 World Cup Morocco 0-0 : 6,00 Canada 4-1 : 6,20 Belgium 0-0 : 6,70 Japan 1-1 pen : 5,90 Brazil 1-1 pen : 7,30 Argentina 0-3 : 6,20 Morocco 2-1 : 7,00 average : 6,47 Euro 2024 Spain 0-3 : 5,20 Albania 2-2 : 5,80 Italy 1-1 : 6,40 [1] average : 5,80
Very nice! Nice work! Personally I thought Modric was not at his best in the 2018WC and generally a bit better the years before. Might feel a bit strange I have to say he is below Laudrup as national team player (I say as Laudrup fan) but is maybe recency bias. The computer: 2006: 6.95 2008: 7.30 2012: 7.10 2014: 7.10 2016: 7.63 2018: 7.50 2021: 7.33 2022: 7.24 2024: 7.20 Your averages have them as (somewhat grouped together): 2008 (6.87) 2016 (6.60) 2021 (6.58), 2012 (6.50), 2022 (6.47), 2018 (6.46) 2014 (6.07) 2024 (5.80), 2006 (5.60) SC has it as: 2016 (7.63), 2018 (7.50) 2021 (7.33), 2008 (7.30) 2022: (7.24), 2024 (7.20) 2012 (7.10) 2014 (7.10) 2006 (6.95) 2024 is a big difference, 2012 is a big difference. The rest not so much I think? (in how they rank)
It's interesting how there's a big gap between Modric's ratings on Sofascore and in the media. It's hard to know why Sofascore doesn't publish its equation. But it shows how we can't treat Sofascore's ratings as definitive. Newspaper ratings are based more on the eye test, but they can favor more famous players, and we can't ignore the risk of corruption, where agents ask to his players get a higher rating. In theory, Sofascore's ratings shouldn't have these problems, but as the equation is secret, you can't trust it 100%, and deduce that there's no problem either. Furthermore, there is no such thing as an unbiased equation. Some criterion has to be prioritized. That's why the NBA, for example, has several evaluation statistics (vorp, winshare, per), all with equations that are open to the public.
Well, the ordering of the tournaments do not vary a lot. 2024 and 2012 the major difference. The others show the same descending ordering. Maybe a 7+ is also fairer for playing at that standard (the top 15% of the tournament or so, if not higher) than a low 6.
A full tier above Xavi seems a bit much for me. Xavi's peak 08-12 seems higher than Modric's, and he is probably a better league player and arguably international level player. Would you agree? Or play devil's advocate and tell me why Modric might not be better than Xavi. Totally agree that he is most complete though.
I agree Xavi his peak is higher but not by much, especially for his club. Modric was injured at the business end of 2014-15, otherwise that could have been another Champions League. Five in a row? Xavi his peak was with Guardiola and him alone. Guardiola left and Xavi went down immediately, back to 'just' a very good player. Yes, the indexes back that up too I think, that decline (relative to other midfielders). So not like, say, Van Dijk between 2015 and 2018 or Modric at Tottenham and earlier (his euro 2008 ranked among the best he delivered). Modric his peak was probably 2013-2017. The manager Ancelotti doesn't have a good league record at all, then in 2016 the league was lost by just one point, in 2017 the league was won (with Modric as one of the five best players in the world, you can say, so similar to Xavi and with now Neymar around too). If I want to play devil's advocate: macro_football their first season is 2014-15. An over the hill Xavi is there by a significant margin ahead of Modric. Robben is number one of all players in terms of impact (among players with a minimum amount of minutes). Completeness, at a high level, is a thing for me yes, I think. That is something going for Modric and he has done it at multiple levels and teams.
Andrea Pirlo Form Guide Part 2: 2006/2007: 52 games (48 starts), 3 goals, 10 assists Serie A – 34 games (31 starts), 2 goals, 8 assists UCL – 12 games (11 starts), 1 goal, 1 assist This is a tough season to gauge. Pirlo achieved his highest ever ranking in the Ballon D’Or largely for his achievements in this season. Despite this, media and AC Milan fans alike were disappointed by Pirlo for most of this season. Pirlo had important moments and good performances, particularly in the UCL (he played well in the QFs, SFs, and Final, though wasn’t the protagonist), but overall there was a sense that Pirlo was fatigued from the World Cup and not sharp mentally or physically. While this sentiment rings true for me, in hindsight, Milan’s larger problems as a team (in particular the aging squad), were projected onto Pirlo, who was expected to be the Pirlo of Germany 2006. Milan’s aging squad and beginning to stale tactics left Pirlo exposed and required him to cover a lot of distance defensively. Offensively, a once dynamic team was starting to become static, leaving Pirlo’s probing long balls into space with little purpose. Milan was in decline. Despite Pirlo’s fatigue, he was almost never rested by Ancelotti due to the Pirlo Dilemma of nobody else being capable of playing his role for the team. However, though the UCL heroes were Kaka and Seedorf, Pirlo played well in the knockout stages with a crucial header against Bayern in the QFs, and (somewhat fortunate) assist in the Final. He played well in SFs vs Man United as well. His performance in the Final, though not necessarily spectacular, has been generally well-rated. His media ratings this season, while reflecting the general perception that he wasn’t at his best, are puzzlingly low. DBS Calcio has him as 24th best in his position in Serie A, which, realistically, is just not right. I think these media ratings have a lot to due with expectation of performance rather than outright performance, so I tend to think that expectations were so high following his display in the World Cup that journalists were disappointed. Still, he placed 5th in the Ballon D'Or and was 14th on FourFourTwo’s list of 100 best players (http://www.mcalcio.com/fourfourtwos-top-100-soccer-players-list/). Highlights: Header vs Bayern in UCL QFs, UCL Final 2007/2008: 45 games (44 starts), 5 goals, 12 assists Serie A – 33 games (32 starts) 3 goals, 7 assists UCL – 8 games (8 starts), 2 goals, 4 assists This season is another contradictory one with a brilliant start and a fading finish. Starting with a MOTM performance in the UEFA Super Cup against Sevilla, a stunning freekick against Inter in the first derby, and being Milan’s best player in the UCL group stage, some Milan fans exclaimed that superstar-Pirlo was back and playing the best football of his career. Pirlo’s level was in this stretch approaching his best club form. Pirlo’s hot season began to cool after Milan’s UCL elimination to Arsenal in March 2008 in which Milan’s midfield was thoroughly dominated. Again, the Pirlo dilemma began to resurface as Pirlo and Milan simultaneously lost form. Pirlo’s form was poor through February and March and began to pick up again in April, though not as good as before. Regardless of his form with Milan, Pirlo still played brilliantly on international duty, much to the frustration of Milan fans from this time. Highlights: MOTM and world class assist vs Sevilla in Super Cup, Freekick vs Inter, pretend-cross freekick and assist vs Benfica, long goal vs Benfica, assist for R9 vs Siena, freekick and performance against Reggina Euro 2008: 3 games (3 starts), 1 goal Pirlo looked in decent form for this tournament and, as always for Italy, was the side’s main man. Suspension for the QFs against Spain make this tournament largely forgettable for him however. For his part, vs. the Netherlands in the 0-3 defeat, he was probably Italy’s best player, as supported by his SofaScore rating. Against Romania, Pirlo won the official UEFA MOTM. Against France, Pirlo put on a vintage display with visionary passing, creating and scoring a PK. Dominated the 10-men of France from that point until he was subbed out after receiving the yellow card in the second half. That he didn’t play the full 90 minutes is probably why he didn’t earn the MOTM. 2008/2009: 29 games (29 starts), 2 goal, 3 assists Serie A – 26 games (26 starts), 1 goal, 3 assists UEFA This is perhaps Pirlo’s least impressive season in Milan. As Milan’s dynasty side faded, management continued to bring in aging superstars (Ronaldinho, Beckham) instead rebuilding the team with fresh blood. Individually, Pirlo struggled with injuries all season and missed many games. Including 10 straight games for Matchday 3 to Matchday 12. After recovering, never really put together a three-game stretch where he approaches his best form all season. Played his best football for Italy in qualifiers where he was trialed as a trequartista again and put on great shows vs Montenegro and Bulgaria. No UCL for Milan this season. Overall a tough season. Highlights: performance vs Udinese, goal and two assists vs Siena, NT performances Confederations Cup 2009 Really good in the first match vs the USA with a dribble + cross assist. Nothing to write home about vs. Egypt or Brazil. Italy played very poorly. 2009/2010 While it might be a stretch to say Pirlo was nearly back to his best this season, Pirlo’s form did generally improve under Leonardo. Defensively, more offensive team, Real Madrid, mostly healthy, lots of minutes, GDS vs WhoScored ratings Highlights: Long range stunner vs. Real Madrid, assist and performance vs Chievo, vs. Samp, vs. Genoa, vs. Juve, vs. Juve again World Cup 2010 2010/2011 Though it may defy conventional wisdom, Pirlo’s form was perhaps the best it had been since early 2008 before his injury on matchday x. With Allegri now at helm, and good signings such as Ibrahimovic, Robinho, and Kevin Prince Boateng, Pirlo played an admirable start to the season, seeming to benefit from the quality around him. He put in some vintage performances, such as vs Parma, Bologna, and Brescia. However, by my estimation, Pirlo never quite looked fully fit and moving as fluidly as he looked earlier in his career but also later at Juventus. His fitness was evidently an issue when he went down to injuries in November again in January. Following his injury, Allegri solved the Pirlo dilemma by reengineering the Milan midfield for more solidity by deploying Mark Van Bommel at the pivot. As Pirlo gradually returned from injury late in the season, he never regained his starting place as the new midfield balance was successfully winning games as Milan became Scudetto winners for the 18th time. All in all, due to injury troubles, probably Pirlo’s second least impressive season in Milan. Highlights: Screamer vs Parma, performances vs Bologna and Brescia *0 - represents long injury lay-off Again, the above chart is very rough, and if it didn't take so much time I would make some changes (70 instead of 65 in May 2006, 85 instead of 80 in Dec. 2009) and detail it a bit more.
I know you rate SofaScore highly, so I wanted to bring up that SofaScore doesn't view Xavi having a dip after Guardiola left. Xavi UCL ratings - SofaScore (Whoscored in bracket for comparison) 04/05 – 7 games – 7.74 05/06 - 4 games - 7.35 06/07 - 7 games - 6.97 07/08 - 12 games - 7.78 08/09 - 12 games - 7.98 09/10 - 11 games - 8.02 - (7.90) 10/11 - 12 games - 7.70 - (7.44) 11/12 - 9 games - 7.70 - (7.28) 12/13 - 10 games - 7.84 - (7.19) 13/14 - 10 games - 7.45 - (7.05) 14/15 - 9 games - 6.80 - (6.48) According to SofaScore, Xavi is a better UCL player than Modric (though I know playing for GOAT Barca gives an advantage in the ratings), and he doesn't decline until 13/14. Now, I put WhoScored ratings to compare because I see they show what the conventional view is, and the view I hold, that Xavi does indeed start to slowly decline in 2012 already.
Interesting chart of Gazzetta dello Sport ratings for Milan players 1997 - 2010. I suspect these ratings are for seasons rather than calender years, with 2002 meaning 02/03, for example. @PuckVanHeel Pirlo is rated the best midfielder in every season from 01/02 to 03/04, or if not including Kaka as a midfielder, until 04/05. And best rated player overall in 01/02 and 03/04For context, Rui Costa's highest rated season is 6.16 in 2002/03.
These things are factual limitations: -Sofascore ratings are based on volume of "positive actions" -Aggregated positive actions are only a fraction of events that occur during a match. Off-ball actions are not tabulated. -Interrater variability in the interpretation of operational definitions - ex: high variability in what is credited as a big chance or a dribble. -MOST IMPORTANTLY - Does NOT account for the QUALITY of an action, nor the CONTEXT and TIMING. -Assumes MORE = BETTER. This is only true - sometimes. Inherent biases: -Touch volume -Higher rating for player on more "dominant" team. Ex: A striker who scores an impossible goal in a team with 30% of the ball, and only sniffs the ball 15 times all game will inevitably be rated worse than a striker with 50 touches and a goal. The former may have had a better performance within the narrative of the match. -Does not account for quality of passing - line-breaking, forward, etc.
Of course. I will publish them in the following weeks. You can check my blog https://football-ratings.blogspot.com/ , I'll include the ratings for as many star players as possible. Toni Kroos is already there, by the way.
This is calculated manually by you? Have you corrected for minutes played? If it is not manually calculated, where can you see the averages? Well, yes Pirlo was a demigod like Maldini, Buffon and so on who got solid grades by default. You can see the bump after the 2006 World Cup win, which actually goes against the trajectory on DBScalcio. That takes Gazzetta their ratings and more. My observation was that for Xavi and Modric during their prime, it was not a question who was the best (central) midfielder of their team. Pirlo at DBScalcio, in comparison to the other central midfielder called Seedorf. Assuming here Gattuso, Rui Costa and Kaka are all not central midfielders. Seedorf is from 1 april 1976, Pirlo 19 may 1979. Pirlo is thus for the entire duration closer to his physical best years. Also here we see by the way Ancelotti, in charge until 2009, not having a good league record. 2002-03: Seedorf (3rd in league, 0.05) 2003-04: Pirlo (scudetto, 0.28) 2004-05: Pirlo (2nd, 0.13) 2005-06: Seedorf (3rd, 0.11) 2006-07: Seedorf (4th, 0.07) 2007-08: Pirlo (5th, 0.07) 2008-09: Seedorf (3rd, 0.00 but more rated games, 33 vs 26) 2009-10: Pirlo (3rd, 0.22) 2010-11: Seedorf (scudetto, 0.20) Now, this doesn't want to compute in some people their minds, the usual suspects pushing countries like us down (it is a sort of negotiating process...), but Pirlo really wasn't as outstanding as Modric or Xavi in this respect when surrounded by great talent (at Juventus the likes of Marchisio or Vidal had a 'workmanlike' image, they did the dirty work for him).
Juventus: 2011-12: Pirlo (0.27 ahead of Marchisio) - how is Vidal rated lower here? Lower than Del Piero too. 2012-13: Pogba (0.14 ahead of Pirlo) - Vidal is just 0.01 lower, Marchisio 0.03 lower 2013-14: Pogba (0.25 ahead of Pirlo) - Vidal is also ahead. 2014-15: Pogba (0.27 ahead of Pirlo) - same kind of story. Pirlo was of course past his thirties here. Something that Bayern and Real Madrid exploited in their head-to-head games. But I think for peak Modric and peak Xavi it wasn't a question who was the best (central) midfielder of their team. For Pirlo it was, even in Italian publications..
This is actually not entirely true. It differentiates between passes in own half, opposition half, through-balls, balls to final third, balls to penalty box (and accuracy) and yes also 'progressive passes' (meaning it skips a line). And there is maybe more.
Well, I don't think so. There are many people who rate Iniesta over Xavi and Kroos over Modrić. And the bolded part can't be highlighted enough. It's a 50/50 from what I see
Let's do Modric now (in his very first season he is far ahead of Bale) - he already turned 30 at 9 september 2015: 2008-09: Palacios (0.14 ahead of Modric) - others are people as Jenas, Huddlestone, Bentley 2009-10: Modric (0.07 ahead of Huddlestone) 2010-11: Modric (0.56 ahead of Jenas) - Van der Vaart 0.10 behind, 2nd best of team 2011-12: Parker (0.23 ahead of Modric) - VdV 0.06 behind 2012-13: Khedira (0.04 ahead of Essien) - Modric is 0.03 ahead of X. Alonso 2013-14: Modric (0.18 ahead of X. Alonso) 2014-15: Modric (0.54 ahead of Kroos) 2015-16: Modric (0.92 ahead of Kroos) - Casemiro is 0.01 ahead 2016-17: Kroos (0.09 ahead of Modric) 2017-18: Modric (0.27 ahead of Kroos) 2018-19: Modric (0.05 ahead of Kroos) - Casemiro 0.07 ahead, Valverde 0.18 ahead 2019-20: Kroos (0.23 ahead of Modric) 2020-21: Kroos (0.37 ahead of Modric) - Casemiro 0.11 ahead of Modric too 2021-22: Modric (0.30 ahead of Camavinga) - Kroos 0.79 behind, Valverde 0.48 2022-23: Camavinga (0.01 ahead of Modric, Valverde) - Kroos 0.16 behind 2023-24: Modric (0.08 ahead of Tchouameni) - Kroos is 0.32 ----------------------- I don't say it is perfect, certainly for the later years, but this supports the idea that really, despite some 'forces' working against him (and for that reason Kroos was paid twice as much during Modric his prime), there was really not so much a question about who was the best (central) midfielder for their team. Until 2018-19 there generally wasn't (aged 32-33).
Prego. Xavi's ratings in World Cups and Euros 2002-14 2002 World Cup Paraguay 3-1 : not rated South Africa 3-2 : 6,50 South Korea 0-0 : not rated average : 6,50 2006 World Cup Ukraine 4-0 : 7,20 Tunisia 3-1 : 6,30 Saudi Arabia 1-0 : 5,90 France 1-3 : 5,80 average : 6,30 Euro 2008 Russia 4-1 : 7,30 Sweden 2-1 : 6,20 Italy 0-0 pen : 6,20 Russia 3-0 : 7,40 [1] Germany 1-0 : 8,10 average : 7,04 2010 World Cup Switzerland 0-1 : 6,20 Honduras 2-0 : 6,90 Chile 2-1 : 6,50 Portugal 1-0 : 6,90 Paraguay 1-0 : 6,60 Germany 1-0 : 7,40 Netherlands 1-0 : 6,90 average : 6,77 Euro 2012 Italy 1-1 : 6,70 Ireland 4-0 : 7,00 Croatia 1-0 : 6,60 France 2-0 : 6,60 Portugal 0-0 pen : 5,70 Italy 4-0 : 8,30 average : 6,82 2014 World Cup Netherlands 1-5 : 5,60 average : 5,60
There is some statistical correlate to the eye test that Xavi regressed: Or was it that Barca regressed (end of cycle / teams caught up) and he was subsequently neutered. I will see if I can come up with ancillary data / physical performance stats
So this is a average of 6.70 I think? That would put him 0.04 above Arnesen, 0.12 above Elkjaer and Platini. Is that correct? Maybe this would come down a bit if he has more games prior to the age of 26 (in 2006) and more after the age of 32.5. I'd agree Arnesen was an excellent player, and possibly the most consistent of that Denmark generation (like Rijkaard was for his national team in his generation), but for many that would feel 'strange' to say the least. Nice work again! Even if there might be strengths and weaknesses associated to this.
Thanks. Arnesen was indeed great to watch and hadn't he missed the quarterfinal vs Spain in 1986, Denmark could very well have won the World Cup that summer. It's true his ratings are astonishing, but it's also a fact that ratings in Italian press peaked in the mid-80s (in the Serie A as well). Was that because football as a whole was at its peak in those years? Everyone will have an opinion on that, but no one can deny that Arnesen and the Danes offered breathtaking stuff in 1984 and '86.
For example, if I go to Premier League you see this for 2015-16 (with VvD joint #7 for example) but La Liga for this period and earlier not yet. Have you done that manually @PrimoCalcio ? https://www.sofascore.com/nl/toernooi/voetbal/england/premier-league/17#id:10356 They have Premier League from 2013-14 to now. But La Liga?
I simply went to Xavi's player profile, went back in his match history, recorded the scores for his UCL games, and recorded the average score for each campaign. There's no La Liga matches involved.