I find it hard to feel that the decision was harsh given the depth in reporting we were given about Lamps style of communication with several players and upper management. He cut a negative, frustrated figure who, despite having a top 4 team bolstered by 200 mil in signings, still rode the “this squad isn’t good enough” narrative and deflected any level of personal accountability for our bad performances. The most damning thing was he didn’t have a plan - that lost him the job. For me, it all looked and felt toxic. You don’t make toxic better - you cut it out. Love Frank as a player and for what he did for us last season but man, no acknowledgment from his loyalists that he was floundering? More time is useless if you don’t have any idea of what you’re going to do with it. He did a job for us, we can appreciate it and move on. I find it hard to maintain a romantic attachment to an idea that was 100% not working. Patience narrative ? Its been 2 weeks and we’re 5th and a win away from 4th. People were having a moan 45 minutes into his first game - yeah, some could be more.. eh...I don’t know if we can give it the credit of calling it patience.. just not be so.. ridiculous?
I keep seeing this 'long term plan' being thrown out as the necessary goal. Who was the last manager that could be considered longer term? Dave Sexton? Where does this expectation come from? It's not the Chelsea way and hasnt even since the vast majority of us have followed the club. It certainly predates Roman who has been more ruthless but we've hardly had a Sir Alex as a counterpoint. I'm not sure that model is even realistic in modern football.
“No long term plan” - Yeah, almost 20 years of being one of the best clubs in world football. What a bunch of clowns running the show.
I see long term and I think mostly of stagnation. I look at arsenal and see how deep rooted their issues are from years of overlooking necessary change. We should embrace our approach to the current footballing environment where teams are constantly evolving and a meta lasts months rather than years. We have oceans of data, specialist analysts, more employees breaking down strategy than ever before. A single manager cannot possibly be expected to continue evolving to stay at the top. Klopp was a mile ahead last year, look at this season. Jose was miles ahead and regressed not because he changed but because the rest of the league did. It happens. Wanting it not to happen is not realistic, its wishful thinking. There was a romantic period where many of us (including myself I'll be perfectly honest), hoped this could be different and what a beautiful scenario it was to have lamps lead us to decades of glory. But then reality hit, the challenge became harder and the decision was made as it was always going to be. Sooner than later.
100%, well said. And it’s hardly just the club.. Jose and Conte are a revolving door all on their own. Lamps will probably prove to be of a similar mould - do a job, things come back down to earth and you move on to the next gig. No shame or anything wrong in any of that, it’s just what happens. Ideally, I still think we can achieve this “long term” thing where a manager stays for 3+ seasons but in this day and age it’s like catching lightning in a bottle. Hope for it, sure, but expecting it is a recipe for a whole lotta dissatisfaction.
Managers like Ferguson are rare in every sport though. The only coach that i can think of off hand that was around as long as Fergie was Jerry Sloan for the Utah Jazz. Right now the longest serving coaches are Pop (And he;s been consistently successful) and Spoelstra.
As a numbers guy I'd live to see some sort of breakdown of average coach/manager tenure by sport and by time. I wouldn't be surprised to see a direct correlation between tenure and data (by which I mean televised games and detailed statistics). I can make anecdotal observations, but as much as an outlier as fergie certainly is, even average managers would consider a 3 year appointment on the short side when the premier league started out. PS the fact he is rare is also part of my point. We as fans aspire to the best case scenario and in football fergie is unparalleled in the modern english game. Hoping for something similar is just a broken heart waiting to happen.
It's mostly 3-5 years in most sports, I'm thinking off the top of my head of course. The NBA is the harshest at 2.58 years per a NY Times article.
Just dug this out. At the beginning of last season it was pretty much 2 years. In the championship about a year. On average! And its trending downwards. That's amazing. https://sqaf.club/average-premier-league-championship-manager-time-in-job/
Did Matteo do such a terrible job!? Not many clubs would think of sacking their manager a few months after winning the Champions League?
Has he gone on to further massive success? Were we wrong? But thank you for backing my point that not even a bad job has resulted in keeping it at this club.
Would he have gone on to further success with us? We will never know but as somebody pointed out a Champions League, an FA Cup and four points behind top spot................ we would happily take that right now.
That's what we would have had with the rest of the season under Robbie? Because that's the point. Not the past, the future. I wouldn't have put a fiver on it at the time for sure. Maybe a stock market caveat is needed. Past performance does not guarantee future results.
By long term many are not expecting another Sir Rednose, but longer than 6 months (- no transfer period) to18 months for a new team to come together and a cluster of players to jell. Pep and Klopp who are dominating now both got a little time to settle. I think it was not into year 3 or late year 2 that Klopp finally started averaging more ppm than Rodgers at scouse. If Ollie had been fired last season or late this fall as the press mob demanded, would ManU be in the top 2 or even top 4 now.? Now not only do we have to adjust to a new system, but Chil, Zy, Pul, Tammy, a competent midfielder in Jorgs spot etc seem to be on the outs and a new team in a sense will need to be bedded, while keeping those sort of players happy on the bench, and new players will have to be then bought who will have to bed in, in a few weeks, for a new gaffer, after Tuc is not in top 4 this season or next fall and player discontent grows, and for the new gaffer after that, who will favor and want new players and so on. One can argue that Wenger held Arse back and got stale after er...2 decades not 18 months... but I would argue more it was the unwillingness to invest in players and keep up with the Jones's, but as but for one year they were always in top 4, and post-Wenger top 4 seems a wild dream. And how long post Ferg did it take ManU and their changing managers to get back to top 4 and would they be there now if they had nor weathered the fire Ollie fad. It is a different League (deeper in top third + talent and enough financial wherewith all -post-covid again), our financial strength will no longer guarantee a top 4 spot and as Arse and ManU and, tots brief acquaintance with top 4 shows, when you fall out of top 4 not easy to get back and our chance to build a sustainable core of consistent players, and a gaffer who really want to be here not audition for Real, and play on cold FA nights seems on the ropes. I learned here from a great master to read the inside of envelopes before they are opened, and this is how I feel now:
yeah exactly, don't let an investment sit, churn that investment out of the Dow and trust it with that shiny new Madoff dude, the steady hand never beats a boiler room strategy...
Wonderful That poor Italian actor crying because of the environment. Ho-Hum. We should abolish the stock market btw. I have no skin in that game. Never been a gambling man. In other news the Adam Curtis documentaries have landed on the BBC i-player. 7 hours of critical thinking.
Newsflash, many of the players we had were already not happy on the bench or on the pitch. I support the club, you support an individual. That is clear. You wanted frank to succeed so badly you wanted to rewrite the strategy we have successfully deployed for two decades. Your disappointment is 100% self inflicted. If you thought it would be different, you simply have not been paying attention.
Maybe people could get behind the club then? For the results we've had so far it's been about Lampard win or draw. How we would have performed with Lampard. How our prior results were with Lampard. That is about the individual.
True, but you have to give some folks a little more time and understanding maybe? All the stages of grief etc. Tuchel seems like a nice bloke to me. Our results have been good, clean sheets, only one goal against us and Rudiger got that . Tuchel has been a bit cagey, our performance not always great, but he seems to be giving everyone a chance. Even Frank wished Tuchel well. Personally, I am totally behind the lanky German. Behind the club. We all are really. innit.
Wow, * , you get a wee bit of authority and you become such an oh so dull shill for the suits... only one opinion allowed, how stimulating....yes I just started supporting Chelsea last season when Lamp took over...so I will stop with the relentless negativity I have been known for in my brief Chelsea support... so I will yellow card myself, and say adeiu...be well * harkening back to your earlier post, Don't blame me cause your financial analogy was total shite...