Is it time to go back to the drawing board??

Discussion in 'Argentina' started by El viejo Matias, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. El viejo Matias

    May 21, 2005
    Canada
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    After the great play of our under 20's and the not so stellar display of our seniors could it be time to rethink the team and the system used?

    I found the fianl against Brazil to be a gutless display and was quite sadened because I know we have the players to be much better than that game .

    Someone else in another thread echoed what I have felt for so long. Requilme has no heart!!!! I think it is time to use more players with guts. Once Aimar is 100% , he should be the captain that stears the ship. D'Allessandro has more guts than Requilme. Gallardo should get a game to see if he can still travel with the team. Maybe Veron's page could still be written, I think we need someone like him. Mascherano must be on the team, and Killy has aged but he would not just look like a bump on the log and watch his team be beat so badly against a arch rival.Lux is junk!!!!!

    Here is my starting line up


    Abbondancieri

    Zannetti Ayala Heinze


    Mascherano Veron



    Killy Gonzales Sorin

    Aimar

    Saviola
    Crespo


    What do you all think???? I think this line up is full of tested Argies, talent and bollas gallore.
     
  2. ElGaucho

    ElGaucho New Member

    Aug 19, 2001
    La Plata
    I think you are too harsh on Lux.. he's actually quite good.


    Here's my list for the final team, including on the bench (23 total)

    Abbondanzieri
    Lux

    Coloccini
    Ayala
    Heinze
    Zanetti
    Samuel

    Solari
    Mascherano
    Kily Gonzalez
    Lucho Gonzalez
    Clemente Rodriguez

    Gallardo
    D'Alessandro
    Sorin
    Veron
    Aimar
    Riquelme

    Saviola
    Crespo
    Tevez
    Rosales
    Figueroa/Palacios


    starters:

    -----------------------------------Lux------------------------------

    ----------------Zanetti---------Ayala------Heinze-------------------

    -------------------------------Mascherano--------------------------

    ---------------------Kily/Lucho-------------Aimar--------------------

    -------------------------Riquelme---D'Alessandro/Veron--------------

    --------------------------Tevez------Crespo-------------------------
     
  3. Aguante Bielsa

    Aguante Bielsa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 25, 2004
    Argentina
    Franco

    Coloccini - Ayala - Heinze

    Zanetti - Mascherano - Sorín

    Cambiasso

    Riquelme

    Tévez - Crespo


    I don't see any flaws in this team. To hell with the 4-4-2 conservative formation. 3 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 2 is more balanced and dynamic, and all the players can give their best in those respective positions.

    One of the things I didn't like so much was Pekerman trying to use Cambiasso as the DMF. Clearly, this position belongs to Mascherano, whereas Cambiasso should help both Mascherano in defense and Riquelme in playmaking. Also, Zanetti and Sorín are midfielders. Including them in the defense is a waste, and leaves more spaces open for the opponent when Pupi and Juampi are helping with the offense.
    I'm not 100% sure about Tévez, but right now we don't have many options in that position. Saviola, Delgado, Galletti... they're all playing at a mediocre level right now.
     
  4. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    1. I like the lineup above, although Luch should be in place of Cambiasso and I'm not sold on Tevez playing with Crespo. That one role which has been filled by Tevez/Saviola/Chelito/Bernardi/Santana/my grandmother is the toss up. I've never been a big Saviola fan, and it remains to be seen if Aimar can play there.
    2. Veron can in no possible way play with Riquelme. Riquelme is only at his best when he's allowed to run the team through himself. He holds way too much of the ball to share with Veron.
    3. D'Alessandro's overrated.
    4. You can't play Zanetti as part of a 3 man backline. There he's a liability and a waste.
    5. None of Argentina's keepers inspire any confidence at all.
     
  5. El viejo Matias

    May 21, 2005
    Canada
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Oh I don't know Zannetti is a fine defender, smart and can play the flank well while Ayala and Heinze play the principle stoppers . With Mascherano and Veron cleaning up the midfeild I can't see us being as pressed as we where in the confedarations cup. I think once Aimar is back to 100% he and he alone should manage the center of our attack, with Killy or Lucio on one flank and Sorin the fighter on the other, Crespo is the target man and I changed my mind from Saviola to Cesar Delgado. And finally I think Abbondancieri may not be a great keeper but he can at times play very well and he just might be the best we have at the moment.
     
  6. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    AguanteBielsa's lineup is a good one to have as a base. I would not be upset if Peckerman adopted it.

    1) I don't have a problem with Tevez/Crespo, as long as you have Sorin and Zanetti as wingbacks to attack wide and give us options. On the other hand, if Peckerman wants to play with a line of four, we will need more width, and I'm not sold on Tevez playing wide. That is where Chelito or Rosales might be better. But since I prefer the line of three, I will stick with Tevez/Crespo.

    2) Alternatives to AB's line-up would be Gonzalo Rodriguez in the back, Lucho for Cambiasso, and Saviola for Tevez. If we are set on the system, I'd like to see Peckerman experiment with these different options to optimize it.

    3) We need to find out who will be our best goalkeeper. We have several good ones, but we don't have a great one.

    3) Stop all this nonsense about not playing Riquelme. Riquelme is the best conductor we have. Some people may not like his style, and some of the criticism of him is valid, but unfortunately we don't have a Maradona, or even a Ronaldinho. We will go as far as Riquelme takes us, and if he's on, he has the potential to take us a long way, maybe all the way. I think with Zanetti and Sorin on the wings and with Cambiasso or Lucho alongside him, we have alternatives to bring up the ball without somebody getting in his way as conductor. And if he's being erased by good defending, as sometimes happens, we can always bring Aimar off the bench in the second half to complement him.
     
  7. remo

    remo New Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Abbondenazieri sometimes look very shaky on crosses. Actually I don't think there's nothing much to chose b/n Lux and Plato. Lux has age in his favor.

    Coloccini is very effective if he doesn't hack down ppl. Haven't seen much of Ayala and Samuel (is he past his best ??) lately. Heinze (though he tires out towards the end of the game) and Zanetti look fine.

    Masscherano shud be the automatic first choice for the defensive midfielder. Cambiosso stands no chance to him.

    Sorin is a workhorse and keeps running thru out but is it effective for the team ?? IMO Kily was doin a better job.

    Requelme is the best bet for Argentina. Most of the passes originate thru him. But if he gets man marked then there's no one. Aimar or Lucho shud be able to take over that role. It's also worth while to bring back and try out Veron.

    Upfront its all abt who's gonna partner Crespo. Tevez is my choice. He is not in his finest form but I wud like to see him play for the full 90 mins for 3/4 games before Pekerman makes a decesion.

    Do u guyz think it'll be a good idea to give some exposure to Messi ??

    My line up wud be:

    Lux

    Zanetti
    Coloccini
    Heinze

    Mascherano

    Kily/Lucho/D'Alessandro/Veron
    Requelme
    Aimar/Lucho
    Kily/Lucho/D'Alessandro/Veron

    Crespo
    Tevez
     
  8. mime26

    mime26 New Member

    Sep 6, 2001
    Boston
    There still is the coming season to observe who's hot and not, but it seems to me the following players are sure (barring injuries):

    gk: Abbondanzieri

    df: Zanetti, Ayala, Heinze, Samuel, Sorin

    md: Mascherano, Lucho, Cambiasso, Riquelme, Aimar

    fw: Tevez, Crespo, Saviola

    That's a total of 14 players, with 9 spots still open. The probable ones at this point are Franco and Lux as keepers, Coloccini and Milito as defenders, outside chance for Gonzalo and Cufre; midfield is wide open to anyone who gets hot, especially Santana, Veron and Solari; and Galleti and Maxi Rodriguez as forwards, outside shot to Figueroa, Rosales, Milito and Delgado.

    For what it's worth, my starting lineup would be:

    Pato
    Zanetti
    Samuel
    Ayala
    Heinze
    Sorin
    Mascherano
    Lucho
    Riquelme
    Tevez
    Crespo

    With Aimar, Coloccini, Cambiasso, Saviola and Santana as the key reserves, this team is powerful enough to win the whole thing.
     
  9. The Double

    The Double Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 11, 2002
    Denver
    He's still a young guy. I'd rather call him inconsistent. Their are some games where you don't even know he's there, and their are others that make you think he's a superstar. Give him some time, I say.
     
  10. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    I've never beein overly impressed with him.

    By the way, to everyone who keeps listing Zanetti in a 3 man defense......please stop. He's a wingback or a right back. He's not a serious choice for a 3 man backline.
     
  11. Xeneize12

    Xeneize12 New Member

    Jan 28, 2005
    La Palma, CA
    My starting three defenders:

    Zanetti - Ayala - Heinze

    J/K..that was for nicephoras...


    I think the following players have earned a spot on the team

    Abbondanzieri

    Zanetti
    Coloccini
    Ayala
    Heinze
    (Maybe Milito and Samuel)

    Lucho Gonzalez
    Mascherano
    Cambiasso
    Sorin

    Riquelme

    Crespo
    Tevez

    The other spots are up for grabs.

    I think if Kily gets back to form..he has a spot, same with Samuel (even if he doesn't return to full prominence...there isn't anyone better)

    I believe that Solari really deserves a shot. He did great at Real, considering the playing time he got.

    I would also like to see more of Palacio or Rosales (su gambeta).

    I defeinately think Veron should be on this team too. He is doing wonderful at Inter. I really see him as playing deep center mid who can pressure the ball on defense and really open up the team with his laser-accurate passing. I actually would like to see him and Mascherano in the middle. His versatility would give Mascherano and the defense some help (pressing) and his offense would give Riquelme someone to play and create with.
     
  12. El viejo Matias

    May 21, 2005
    Canada
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I agree that Veron should be given another shot, he would be an asset to the midfeild structure.
     
  13. nyosi

    nyosi New Member

    May 30, 2005
    mbabane,swaziland
    I think the coach should find some way of playing Aimar and Riquelme at the same time.
     
  14. Xeneize12

    Xeneize12 New Member

    Jan 28, 2005
    La Palma, CA
    That's the ultimate goal. However, Aimar is no type of form to play a full game for Argentina. Hopefully he will be able to recover and regain his futbol. He is an explosive player who can really create.
     
  15. sree_g78

    sree_g78 New Member

    Apr 23, 2005
    Hai,
    It is diffcult to predict who will be in Team for 2006, beacuse players who are in good form now , may not be so in 2006, If u guys look back in 2002, our performace sink had many reasons, few notable ones are
    1.Veron (His move to Manu had brought his confidence down) he was the linchpin then
    2.Batigol he was also not settled in his new club.
    If we analysise the reason when ever a player moves to a new club, his confidence can go up or suddenly drop down, good example is Crespo.

    And beacuse of this with many of the players moving to new club, most of our fortunes hang on how they play in new club.

    Guys like

    1.Lucho Gonzalez
    2.Mascherano
    3.Crespo
    4.Solari
    5.Killy
    6.SAviola
    7.Maxi Rodriguez
    8.Maxi Lopex
    9.Cloadio Lopezx
    10.Samuel
    11.Tevez
    12.Cavenghi
    13.Clemente Rodriguez
    14.Galleti

    All have moved to new club or going to move or not settled, some of them are our team regualr starters, so it depends upon how they perform in the coming season

    My ARg team will be

    GoalKeepers
    We have to choose 3 keepers
    1.pato
    2.Franco
    3.Lux
    with an outside chance to Cabellero of Elachi

    Defenders

    4.Ayala
    5.Samuel
    6.Coloccini
    7.G.Rodriguez
    8.C.Rodriguez
    9.Heinze

    with outside chance to Milito, Quiroga, Placente, Cufutre, N. Burrdissco

    MidFielders

    10.J.Zanetti
    11.J.Sorin
    12.Killy
    13.Solari
    14.Veron
    15.Riquelme
    16.Aimar
    17.D'Alessandro
    18.Mascherano
    19.L.Gonzalez
    20. Cambiasso

    we have to trim the midfielders, it should be based on the form and also on health basis with standbys Sanatna, Gallardo,


    Strikers

    21.Crespo
    22.Saviola
    23.Tevez
    24.Placios
    25.Messi
    26.Rosales
    27.Maxi Rodriguez
    28.Galleti
    29.Milito
    30.Maxi Lopez

    i think they will name a squad of about 35 and then trim it.


    So all the guys who are this list should perform well to get a call up and also some others who perform really well also should be called
     

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