Is it time to fire Sigi?

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew SC' started by DGA57, Sep 2, 2007.

  1. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    That's a pretty terrible list, but some of that stuff (2005 on) was Steve Sampson.
     
  2. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Member+

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    I don't blame Sigi too much for the lack of production from the superdraft picks. IMO only first rounders and a few later rounders are worth much. College just doesn't prepare players very well for a pro career. We pretty much bring in a new group of developmental players every year and they rarely make an impression. Thus I don't fault him for trading the second pick for Herron. I fault him for keeping Herron on the bench.

    Of course McCullers should be faulted for agreeing to trade Cunningham for a draft pick (that became Kamara) during the last days of Nee. I'd be perfectly happy to trade next years first rounder for a useful player. Discovery picks, waiver picks, and trades seem like less of a crap shoot than drafting a college player and trying to project how he'll look vs pro competition in a year or two.
     
  3. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    My bad. I misinterpreted my old notes. Sigi was fired August 2004.

    This list should be correct:

    Bill, are you talking about the same Sigi Schmid that...

    traded Matt Reis to New England in 2003 (for Alex Pineda Chacon and a conditional pick)?
    traded Simon Elliott to Columbus in 2004 (for the first round pick used to acquire Troy Roberts)?
    traded Brian Mullan to San Jose in 2003?
    traded Robin Fraser to Colorado in 2001 (for three second round picks)?
    traded Ezra Hendrickson to Dallas in 2003?
    traded Daniel Hernandez to New England in 1999?
    waived Craig Waibel in 2003?
    waived Brian Ching in 2002?
    signed Luis Hernandez in 2000?
    signed Hong Myung-Bo in 2003?
    signed Diego Serna in 2003?
    signed Jovan Kirovski in 2004?
    signed Andreas Herzog in 2004?
    drafted Memo Gonzalez #8 in 2003?
    drafted Josh Gardner #13 in 2004?
    drafted Hemir Neibles #12 in 2002?
    drafted Isaias Bardales #11 in 2001?
    used top 25 picks to draft Robert Russell, Bryheem Hancock, Gavin Glinton, Arturo Torres, Scot Thompson, Ricky Lewis, and Guillermo Arzate.

    That Sigi Schmid?

    He did draft Danny Califf (#8), Sasha Victorine (#11), Peter Vagenas (#23), Brian Ching (#11), Alejandro Moreno (#27), Joseph Ngwenya (#3), and Ned Grabavoy (#14).

    He brought in Carlos Ruiz and Marcelo Saragosa, but also Sebastian Vorbe.
     
  4. xb1srw2

    xb1srw2 New Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will say the same as I have all along.
    If we do not make the playoffs, it is time for Sigi to go.
    I thought he was the right guy to lead a revival of the Crew. I still do, though I am much less optimistic now.
    My belief is we hold out 'til the end of the season and make a move if warranted. If a move is made, the whole staff should go. I have no faith in Robert taking the reigns. I may be in the minority there, but that's where I am.
     
  5. JohnJohn

    JohnJohn New Member

    Dec 11, 2003
    Chino
    Lets wait and see.
     
  6. west ham sandwich

    Feb 26, 2007
    C-bus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This was my belief until now. Two home games against your closest competition for the last playoff spot. 4 points of those to should have been expected. I would have accepted 3. They got 1. Plus, Sigi appears to be losing the locker room.

    Give it over to Bob to finish the season. Not that it's going to happen, but that's where I'm at now. Take Sigi out back behind the barn and put him down.

    And hire a technical director/scout who's initials are not SS.
     
  7. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would officially like to flip flop. Fire his @ass now, and McCullers too (for the "fantasy" comment).

    His inability to use all his subs in games played in 90 degree heat, with the other team dominating play (Dallas, Colorado) demands a pink slip. Even when up a man (Dallas) he sat on the last sub. When we needed 1 goal (2 really) against the Fire, he couldn't bring himself to take off a defender or d-mid for an attacking player.

    He's had two years to find a forward, and nada. Trades our #2 pick for Herron, then plays a stupid 4-5-1, defensive formation that doesn't suit him (or any forward not named Drogba). Has two young forwards that never/rarely see the pitch (Garey and Kamara). What happened to Robbie Rogers? Why the love for Thomas? Our other #1 pick, never sees the field, or even the bench (Zayner, in case you've forgotten). Top 4 picks last two years: Garey, Zayner, Kamara, Trade #2 for Herron. Not a lot there.

    Yes, the acquisition of GBS was awesome, and Schelotto has been fantastic. Big acquisition last year held some promise, but Sigi soured on him. Some trades have been necessary, as to get rid of the slackers (Buddle for Gaven, Martino for Grabavoy). Moreno for Ngwenya has been even at best, and it makes you wonder why Joeseph didn't get more time at forward here, instead of playing out on the wing.

    Sigi said he was going to play attacking soccer, and he hasn't delivered. He said we would compete right away, and we didn't. Even almost 2 years in, we still need a forward, and haven't used the DP (or all our SI slots?). Sigi often refuses to use his last sub, in situations when we've obviously needed one, or adopt a more attacking formation when we need offense. He stubbornly plays some players who aren't performing (Thomas, Gaven earlier and last year, etc) while others who seemingly play well and never get a sniff (Rogers, Herron, Rozenthal, etc).

    In sum, the players at LA knew what they were doing when they revolted. And they were in first place at the time. We are in 6th (10th overall).

    Let's fire Sigi and go with Bob, right now.

    ------------Hesmer------------
    Zayner---Ezra---Gonzo---Migs
    Gaven-----Oughton----Virtuoso
    -----------Grabavoy-----------
    --------Herron-----Moreno-----

    Bench: Andy G., Pierce (if healthy), O'Rourke, Rogers, Virtuoso, Kamara, Garey.

    Of course, we won't, and we'll see this:

    -------------Hesmer-----------
    Pierce---Ezra-----Gonzo---Migs
    -----O'Rourke-----Oughton-----
    Thomas-----Grabavoy----Gaven
    ------------Moreno-------------
     
  8. DGA57

    DGA57 Member

    Jun 17, 2002
    Dublin, OH
    I went back and split the season in three equal pieces of 8 games.

    April-May, 1-2-5, 8 pts, 6 goals, 102 shots, 40 SOG, 39.2% SOG Pct
    Jun-Jul, 4-2-2, 14 pts, 14 goals, 99 shots, 49 SOG, 49.4% SOG Pct
    Jul-Sep, 1-4-3, 6 pts, 7 goals, 88 shots, 36 SOG, 40.9% SOG Pct

    I think these numbers reflect what we saw on the field. The team was even and a bit unlucky in the first third as they were creating chances but not finishing them (< 40% SOG Pct). Then they got hot and although they kept the same pace on the number of shots, their accuracy improved and so did their points. The last third has been miserable. We have stopped creating chances, we've been playing route 1 ball, we have the wrong personnel out there, our SOG percentage dropped to the previous level but now we're not even getting the same number of shots off than in the first two-thirds of the season.

    I think it all points to tactics, system, player selection and that all goes back to Sigi. Sorry, I don't have anything against him but he needs to turn it in.
     
  9. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like to post an edit to my post: put Thomas on the bench for Virtuoso (he can't be in two places at once).
     
  10. Robbo Crewfan

    Robbo Crewfan Member

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Jan 21, 2007
    C-busite in Indiana
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, to a point... He's not the guy to build the team around -- however, going to a 4-4-2 would have seemed to suit a couple of guys better we had early in the year (Herron and Ngwenya), both of whom are probably better suited playing in the center than on a wing -- and Herron could have taken the role Ching has w/ JarJar in Houston. (And for that matter, a 2 forward set would seem to pair Kei and Moreno, for example, quite well.)

    So while I agree Ngwenya, himself, isn't worth buidling a team around, sometimes a good coach will adopt his formation/strategy to make his team play it's best. And if Ngwenya's biggest shortcoming is he isn't good on the wing (which I agree he's not), trading for Ale Moreno isn't solving your problem... it's, in effect, forcing Herron out to the wing, where he isn't (IMO) as great of an asset, either--unless you change your formation so Herron is in the middle too, which if you were going to do, you might as well have done BEFORE the trade (when had your speed guy w/ your 'target' guy).

    Why not play two guys (one fast, one big/strong) @ forward, w/ Guille setting them as an A-Mid? Or use grabs in the midfield, and put Guille on one wing, w/ Rogers/pick your fav on the other...? It would seem to help some of our scoring woes, and we did/do have the folks to make something like that work. Oh, that's right, because we're a Sigi team, and we play one forward; why? Well, we just do...

    Just my $0.02, but I think this trade does show that Sigi can be a little too rigid in his tactical thinking. (Having said that, I agree w/ the folks who've said that if Sigi somehow does still get us into the playoffs, he deserves another year... but after this last weekend, my hope is waning, fast.)


    -RC
     
  11. Matt D

    Matt D Member

    Mar 17, 2006
    new orleans
    Reason #62 NOT to fire Sigi:

    The players are still playing hard for him. Hell, even Eddie Gaven, of all people, put in an honest effort in the last game.

    Also, let's not forget how bad things had to get before HSG decided to finally let Andrulis go. They're not nearly as quick to make a change as some of you want them to be. And even to most "enraged" of you have to admit that it's not 1/10 as bad as the situation was here during Andrulis' final months.

    We're ONE POINT out of a playoff spot. ONE POINT. Continue to support the team, they still have a good chance to get into the playoffs, and from there anything can happen.
     
  12. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Member

    May 16, 1999
    Old Gridania
    If you've ever supported a team that went 40 years between winning trophies, you'll understand that I don't get the mood swings with you lot.

    Take a deep breath, drink one of those nice herbal teas, and look at some of the pictures in a back issue of National Geographic.

    Things could be a lot worse. Ask Scum fans.
     
  13. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, NY (Metroscum) have never missed the playoffs three consecutive years, or even two.

    If you are refering to DC, then you're just silly. While DC has in fact missed the playoffs three years in a row: 2000-02, the 4 MLS titles, five Title games, multiple Open Cups, and (I think) Champions Cup glory make this no comparison.

    Now, San Jose did miss the playoffs 4 consecutive years ('97-2000). But there is a bit of an asterisk, as they had the 7th best point total in '99, but because MLS can't get a schedule and/or fair playoff format, missed out on the postseason.

    For those who care, a team in the top 8 has missed the playoffs three times: '99 San Jose, '03 Crew, and '04 Dallas.

    So, to recap, most consecutive years without a playoff berth:
    4: San Jose: '97-2000. (Did have 7th best PTS in '99). Also have two MLS Cups.
    3: D.C. United: 2000-'02. 4 MLS Cups.
    2: New England: '98-'99, Dallas '03-'04 (8th on PTS in '04), KC: '05-Current; Crew: '05- Current, RSL: '05-Current.

    RSL is an expansion team, D.C. and San Jose have 6 titles between them. 3 Hunt teams (or former ones) are on the list of 7 (though Dallas somewhat unfairly). Only KC has a title among the three.

    End rant.
     
  14. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Member

    May 16, 1999
    Old Gridania
    That's the important point: from dominating to three years in the wilderness. It's a lot worse than going from moderate to mediocre.

    Now take your nice herbal tea.
     
  15. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Foosh, the difference (as I see it) is in a 4-3-3 (three forwards) your 2 outside "forwards" as you like to call them, don't spend 80% of the game in their own half. One will often drift back, but the other often stays up top with the CF, that never happens here. Every time a ball is played forward, Moreno chases, and there is no one within 25 yards of him.

    Playing a real 3 forward set means those guys play up top, a lot. Ours don't. You sure as hell can put two of them around the top of the 18, with the third wide, depending on where you are attacking from. How often have you seen our third "forward" streaking to the back post to get onto a cross from on onrushing back or the central midfielder? Never, because the outside guy is actually a midfielder, and he's 25 yards behind the play, Moreno is the only one up there = 4-5-1.

    Also, you can also play the 4-3-3 w/out the diamond mid: three across the midfield. You have a midfielder BETWEEN the backs and the forward/winger. Rare, I'll admit, but it can be played that way. 4-3-3 is an aggressive formation, 4-5-1 is defensive. Where do you think we fall on the positvie/negative spectrum in terms of attacking play?

    Are you seriously contending this is a three forward set?
     
  16. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    The Crew generally attack with 4--the three forwards and the "attacking midfielder".

    When the Crew play a 4-3-3, the outside forwards play back a bit and defend the opponents wide defenders coming forward when the opponent has the ball. Once the Crew win the ball, usually the three forwards all move forward. If one of the two outside backs goes forward, generally one of Schelotto or Grabavoy or Gaven stay back.

    When the Crew play a 4-4-2, as they did against Colorado, Schelotto and Moreno were the forwards with Gaven and Grabavoy the wings. They all got forward frequently, often at the same time. The attacking middle was often left vacant, although Schelotto and Grabavoy sometimes dropped into that spot. Gaven seemed to get forward more freely than Grabavoy, but he also quickly moved back as a wing defender when the Crew lost the ball. However, when the Crew are crossing balls into Gaven, Moreno, Schelotto, and/or Grabavoy, it just doesn't seem very dangerous.

    I'm about done with this 4-5-1 talk. Moreno and Herron have not been left isolated in the attack.
     
  17. Draghignazzo

    Draghignazzo Member+

    Feb 24, 2007
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    When was the last time you saw 4 Crew players join the attack?!!
    We play a 4 -5 freakin' 1
     
  18. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, it isn't. Go take your moron tea, or maybe you should stop as you've already had enough.

    You are saying you'd prefer to go from mediocre to sucking to winning three titles to sucking (and then winning another title and being the best team in the league the next two years after that)?

    I'll take the titles any time, and I'll wager so would any other Crew fan (except you, of course).
     
  19. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amen, brother/sister!
     
  20. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given the average age of the population of the board (hell, I'm only 29), I find this argument pretty asinine.
     
  21. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Member

    May 16, 1999
    Old Gridania
    English not your first language?

    What I said was that going from being champions to not even making the playoffs is a major emotional drain on a fan. While failing to make the playoffs after several years of minimal to moderate success is frustrating and dissappointing, it is nothing compared to a short hard fall onto broken glass like the one that DC fans experienced.

    I never said I wouldn't take the titles. What I did say is that I'm tired of a bunch of invertebrate whiners.
     
  22. eboe

    eboe Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    May 23, 2006
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Awesome. We refocus our negativ energy on attacking each other. Let's do something that might help, for a change. Or at least make us feel good about our actions. Let's call and/or fax our feelings to:

    Shoreline Management Group, LLLP
    St. Croix, Est. Davis Bay
    P.O. Box 425, 00841
    Clark K. Hunt, CEO
    Phone: 340-719-5072
    Fax: 340-719-5079

    Yes I know it's not HSG headquarters, but if we bombard them with phone calls etc we might get somewhere. Ask him to sell the team to someone who cares. Ask him to fire Sigi. Ask him to sign a DP. Ask why they are so hypoctitical about a DP for Columbus when Dallas just got one. Do it.
     
  23. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Member

    May 16, 1999
    Old Gridania
    As constructive a suggestion as any I've seen.
     
  24. Matt D

    Matt D Member

    Mar 17, 2006
    new orleans
    That's a wonderful idea, let's encourage the owner to sell the team to St. Louis. :rolleyes:
     
  25. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hypoctitical?
     

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