Is it time to fire Sigi?

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew SC' started by DGA57, Sep 2, 2007.

  1. fidlerre

    fidlerre Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    Central Ohio
    I think Autogolazo did an excellent job point this one out...

    This one continues to stump me, there had to be something more behind the decision than to just "rest him because his tired" nonsense - it reminds me of the "sitting Buddle against NE in the playoffs" a few years back when nobody would talk about why he was planted on the bench for Dante.

    Curous but why this one? Just a question cause I thought that Gaven (and GBS) did fantastic job against Ihemelu all evening long by continuing to mount offensive pressure against him - constantly baiting him in to a stupid challenge, any other official outside of MLS and he would have never made it to the end of the game without getting a second yellow and being ejected. If there was one person I wasn't worried about last night it was him...

    Experience? The fact that Rogers isn't 100% healthy? I dont know...

    This one is another frustrating one. I know that Andy has been in and out of the injury bed (thanks to scrimmages against co-rec Mexican teams) so that could have a lot to do with it, but we traded away our #1 pick for him because he was going to be out goalscorer this year - and yet he can't get a sniff of the field except as a late game sub?
     
  2. crewcrazy17

    crewcrazy17 Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Medina
    Interesting comparison. I'd also add that he has brought in players like Herron, Ward and Rogers and doesn't play them.
    Also in bringing up Rozental, I wonder why Sigi had such an issue with Seb, and yet seems to like a lot of what GBS does. I see these two players as somewhat similar in their play, like a current version of Valderamma. Yes GBS is a little more active than Rozental, but also seems to be a little less patient with those around him as well.

    In regards to turning personnel decision over to McCullers, I think that is really out of the question. McCullers is really a business guy and not qualified to make those type of decisions, and I'd bet he'd likely tell you this himself. So if you want to split the duties, you have to bring in some sort of technical director or somesuch, and Sigi would bolt before the ink was dry on the contract.
     
  3. fidlerre

    fidlerre Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    Central Ohio
    The Crew won his rights via a lottery - Sigi had nothing to do with that one.
     
  4. kaiser kraut

    kaiser kraut New Member

    Jun 26, 2001
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone else think maybe our system just sucks?
     
  5. DGA57

    DGA57 Member

    Jun 17, 2002
    Dublin, OH
    I think Ihemelu kept getting too much into the attack because he knew he could recover with speed against GBS. He would have had to keep honest with Rogers up there. Gaven beat him a few times off the dribble but there were far too few chances when we started going into "kickball" mode.

    On the refs, you're right, he wouldn't have seen the end of the game. There are two times in the game where the refs decision made me want to puke. First he stopped a clear Crew advantage when GBS got hammered at midfield and then didn't even pull out a card. He could have just as easily talked to the guy and warned him after they had pulled the ball out of their net, or they had successfully cleared the ball (probably the second one). Then he whistles Sanneh for undressing someone in midfield and stopping a breakaway and again decides that it doesn't merit a yellow card. That one I definitely DON'T understand at all.
     
  6. Punch

    Punch Member

    May 18, 2007
    Worthington, OH
    I wouldn't think now would be the time to make a coaching change.

    If one thought that firing the coach would light a fire under the team, then maybe. But I don't see firing Sigi would put us on that winning streak.

    I think the downside of poorer performance is more likely.

    On Jacob Thomas, he's an interesting enigma. The two times I've seen him, he's seemed very fast and does a good job getting into a nice position. On the other hand, when he touches the ball, you have to hold your breath. If he gets consistent playing time, will his touch come back? (Kind of like golf and the short game?) I'm guessing that's what Sigi's hoping for.
     
  7. crewcrazy17

    crewcrazy17 Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Medina
    The league isn't going to assign a team a player they don't want are they? Doesn't the team have to actively participate in the lottery, meaning Sigi chose to go after Rogers?
     
  8. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    Would you say Gaven and Schelotto have been "shoved out to the wing in a 4-3-3"? Does Houston play Ngwenya "in the middle of the field"?

    Last year, Ngwenya played mostly as left forward with Garey at right forward; he scored 5 goals and 2 assists in 1400 minutes, tied for the team lead with Jason Garey.

    This year Ngwenya with Houston has played scored 7 goals and 2 assists in 1500 minutes, tied for the team lead with Brian Ching.

    Not a dramatic difference. If fact, Houston has only scored 4 more goals than the Crew this year. But they have given up 13 less, and the 17 goal difference is quite large.

    The biggest factor may be that he has simply been playing better, smarter soccer than he played with Columbus.

    I'm not sure why. Maybe having the reigning MLS Cup Champion coach trade for him and start him every game up top right away gave him a bit more confidence than he had playing for Schmid and an unsteady, foundering team in Columbus (the injury bug was biting hard for the second season in a row at the time).
     
  9. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sigi has, IMO, earned at least the rest of the season. No reason to get panicy and pull the ripcord yet.

    Lets see how these next 7 games go, plus any offseason we might acquire, before making a decision.

    Personally, I'm partial towards making Warzycha our next manager. Nearly all the managers in MLS now are former MLS players, and most of the ones who aren't were big-time players in their own right before MLS came around. Sigi is one of the few exceptions.

    In fact, Sigi, Osorio, and Arena are the only "non-player" managers in the league. Yeah, Arena did get a cap, but his professional career is virtually non-existant. All of the other managers, save Nicol, played in MLS, some extensively. And I think we all know Nicol's playing pedigree.

    I think our next man in charge should be a former player, preferably with MLS experience. Maybe that guy should be in charge next season, maybe not, but I think that decision should wait until the offseason.
     
  10. kaiser kraut

    kaiser kraut New Member

    Jun 26, 2001
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that once the season is over is the time to make that decision. Making a move now probably won't do us much good, and probably won't get us any further in the playoffs once we are faced with a home-and-home with one of the conference winners.

    I just think if we pull the ripcord, as you say, there won't be a parachute that comes out. This team always finds a way to put me on the full range of the rollercoaster during the season. Why can't we just kick ass and average 2 pts. a game all the time? :)
     
  11. THOMA GOL

    THOMA GOL BigSoccer Supporter

    Yokohama F-Marinos
    Jul 16, 1999
    Paradise of the Pacific
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let da church say amen!

    +rep
     
  12. Grouchy

    Grouchy Member+

    turkey bacon with swiss
    Apr 18, 1999
    Canal Winchester
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally I don't see letting Sigi go lighting a fire under this team. Firing Sigi or even others in the coaching staff will not get Moreno calls, will not make Gaven, Grabavoy, Rogers, Migs and others more consistent, will not get everybody on the same pages as GBS, won't make Frankie's crossing more consistent, won't make Ezra, Pierce, Gonzo stop having brain farts and the occasional horrid game (consistency, again), won't make Herron healthier are more dependable, won't make Thomas get into rhythm (if he even can), and it won't bring Marshall or Szetella back.

    We got a temporary boost when GA was canned and Bob took over but I really don't see that temporary boost happening this time. Sigi is supposed to be a quality coach.
     
  13. west ham sandwich

    Feb 26, 2007
    C-bus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally I think, as I have since the beginning of the year, if we miss the playoff, Sigi should be out. If he makes the eight playoff spot (especially if it is outside the eastern conference playoff spots) and gets bounced out of the playoffs, he should probably also be gone since next year will surely go back to the strict conference playoff structure. Any better (4th in the East, 8th spot an winning round one), then yes, give him a contract extension.

    I do think he should be allowed to finish the season. However, if/once the team is mathematically out of the playoffs I see no reason to keep him on either.
     
  14. Coupe

    Coupe Member+

    Mar 3, 2007
    Fire - No!
     
  15. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again I have stated once and I will do so again. THE IMPROVEMENT from the Crew is there. I think SIGI NOW has a solid foundation. It looks by what Guille has told reporters and taking English classes that Schelotto will be around next season, Gonzalez at the back, Moreno, herron, these guys can produce. I think the Crew should seriously try a DP at forward or in the midfield. Get on the trade block for some decent americans and this team WILL improve. AGAIN making the playoffs would be a sucess for the Crew this year and they are in the hunt. This team NOW has a solid foundation for next year.....
     
  16. myshap

    myshap Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    The difference is Rozental was shit and didn't produce. GBS is great and produces.

    Rozental 20 games 3 goals 1 assist
    GBS 18 games 4 goals 9 assists.

    As for Sigi getting the sack, this is a joke right? The Crew are better in every aspect of the game then they have ever been as an organization save maybe '99. This team is exactly where we all thought it would be at the start of the season, fighting for a playoff spot, so I don't see where this latest thing is coming from.

    Grouchy has it right. The teams that are on top of us currently were pretty much already good teams before Sigi got here and they haven't stayed stagnant as the Crew have gotten better either. It was never going to be bring Sigi in and win a championship. The roster wasn't there for that to ever happen.

    As for turning around a bad season fast, it's happened twice KC and SJ in 2000 and 2001 which pretty much is ancient history the way this league moves players in and out. It took DC 4 years to get back on top, it took NE a lot of years to get to where it is, Dallas was down for a couple years before they got to where they are now, KC has been down the last few years and they are still fighting to get back to where they were in '04. A few more performances like they have had recently and Colorado, Crew, or Chicago could still pass them.

    This isn't a start up league anymore, it takes time to get all the pieces together and move up. Last year was about getting rid of the trash and bringing in talent, mission accomplished. This year was about getting more talent, getting the system together, and competing for a playoff position, so far so good. Quit Your Bitching.
     
  17. DGA57

    DGA57 Member

    Jun 17, 2002
    Dublin, OH
    No, it's not a joke. It's an honest question. We struggled at the start and have struggled in the last 5 games. This sandwiched a hot stretch that got us from RSL and Galaxy depths to almost first in the division only to now fall back again. Chicago and Colorado have gotten hot just as we did 45 days ago or so.

    I'm not saying we're not better than last year because we are. What I'm wondering is whether this team should be at 28 points this deep into the season or would be at the mid-thirties point with different tactics. Granted, we have a bunch of games where we could have squeezed points out of (@KC, @Chivas, @Chi, @Dal, @Hou) but we didn't. The style that made me look forward to attending home games seems to have evaporated with the August heat. We were creating chances, we seem to even have lost that ability. Instead of 8-10 decent chances a game like early in the season, we had 3-4 in the last HOME match against COLORADO for crying out loud.

    For example, sitting out Gonzalez arguably cost us against DC. Playing Szetela arguably cost us a couple of games, noticeably the games in Texas. Playing Thomas cost us the Colorado match. All of these are decisions made by the coach. Also tactics involve on whether your 4-3-3 looks like one or more like a 4-5-1. Why are our midfielders not pushing into the attack when the ball is sent wide? I watch other MLS matches and see 3-4 attacking players in the 18 when a team is deep in the other zone; we have Moreno and maybe one other and usually against 3-4 defenders. Look at our last two goals: Migs & Gaven catching the Rapids napping, Schelotto beating 4 guys at Houston. Have we shown any type of consistency in the attack at all? What happened to the give and go's with GBS rewarding someone making a run INTO the box? How about the plays leading to the Herron goals against TFC at home?

    Again, I don't know what the right answer is. Give him the rest of the year and whatever happens, happens. Or, make a change and hope for the impressive results we got the last time a mid-season coaching change happened. At that time we were buried so deep that we fell just short of the playoffs. This time we're in the hunt. And finishing inside the playoffs gives you hope that they can push this through to MLS Cup, just as Houston and LA have done in the past.
     
  18. eboe

    eboe Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    May 23, 2006
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We will stop bitching when the brass fooking pays up and gets us a damn DP who can bury the ball. They got GBS despite everyone else saying he would never play for us, so where the fook is Palermo? Says he is thinking MLS, we should pony up and get him, now.
     
  19. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are the only person I can think of who didn't think Rozy could play. Every announcer who called a Crew game last season practically ejaculated over the guy.

    As for the stats, Rozy was seldom a starter. Forget his game stats, look at his minutes.

    The "difference" is that Schelotto has a couple live bodies to work with while Rozenthal had none. The people they sent out there with Seb aren't even playing now.

    Well, you can disagree with the premise if you want - you're hardly alone - but to open a discussion of whether a coach who can't win games ought to be replaced is hardly some kind of "way out there" thing. It's a perfectly legitimate topic.

    Utter nonsense.

    Maybe it's where YOU thought it would be but it sure as hell isn't where I and a lot of others thought it would be.

    For reference, check Grouchy's prediction thread. Case closed.

    You argue like a liberal. Nobody much expected the Crew to win it all. That's just constructing a straw man and thn beating it to death with a hand axe. Can you see no difference between "winning a championship" and playing like a contender?

    The problem, my freind, is that this team looks terrible out there. Terrible.

    Again, I would only say that winning and losing is one thing. Looking like you're frightened and expect to lose and playing gutless, heartless soccer is another thing entirely.

    Who brought in these players? Who has total control of the Crew's personnel? Who decides who plays and who sits? Wo decides who gets a shirt and who gets the door?

    This is Sigi's team from top to bottom. If he didn't think these guys can play then why exactly did he bring them here?
     
  20. Aaron d

    Aaron d Member+

    May 15, 2005
    Wooster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While there are many points i could disagree with, i couldn't disagree more with this point. We do not look terrible. Many posts argue over 3-4 plays that have cost us a total of 6-9 points. Thomas's horrible miss and Danny's couple blunders. Each of those games we left with less points than our play deserved.

    Flash back to '04. How many games did we walk away with more points than our play deserved?

    Point is, we don't look terrible. We have played well and a few boneheaded plays have cost us points. Blame Sigi for that but don't say we look terrible. I see a team playing much better ball than it has in a long time. That has me drinking Kool-Aid because i believe we can hang with any team when we have all our players in the game. Not just play along with, but play with and be just as good, if not better(Dallas, Houston).

    Now, this hasn't always gotten points, but i feel better going into each week knowing we have just as good a shot getting three points as the other team. There are clubs out there that are in a lot worse shape than us, and they have no where near what we have going for us.

    The difference between us and the top clubs is a lot smaller than the difference between us and the RSL/LA clubs. Sigi is a large part to thank for that. Give him the year. If he wants another off season, go ahead.
     
  21. myshap

    myshap Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    The guy had 15 starts, that's practically half the season. He only had like 200 less minutes then Schelotto does now. What did he do with those? Nothing. Which is why he didn't get the other 15 starts and it's why he's not here any more. As for the players he played with, he didn't get to play with Moreno, that's about it.

    Sigi said when he brought him here that it was a gamble bringing him in. If it worked it would work out great, if not, they didn't lose much finding it out. It didn't work, he wasn't good enough to play in this league. Why people keep longing for a fat never was, I'll never understand.

    Has the team not played like contenders most of the season? I look at the large majority of our games and we've been right there or dominated most of them. Go back and watch the highlights or sections of the games. There has been very few times that this team hasn't been right there with teams that maybe it shouldn't be there with. There has been a large amount of games this year that this team has dominated and not come away with the result. Ultimatly , yes the lack of those results lands at the coach's door, but do we throw the baby out with the bath water?

    People keep comparing this team to last year, screw last year, do as Aaron does and compare this team to the '04 team. That was a horrible team that ground out results that it didn't deserve and was unvailed as the fraud it was in the playoffs and the '05 season. This team has talent; talent that wants to be here and play for the shirt. This team knows how to play this game the way it was meant to be played. They don't always show it. They don't always get the result they should, but damn it's 50 times better then what was here before. If he's taken us this far, why is it impossible to believe that he can take us farther? I mean people have gone on and on about how this organization has said it's only a player or two away for as long as I can remember. However, the simple fact that no one seems to want to believe is that for the first time it's actually the truth.

    Show me a manager that every single personnel move works. Sometimes, well most of the time, you're just wrong and most of the time it takes time to learn that you're wrong. Sigi, doesn't bring players in he doesn't think he can get production out of. However, like our good friend Rozental, sometimes you just have to gamble and if it doesn't work out, then you go back to the drawing board.

    It also takes time to collect the kind of talent you need to sustain the level of consistancy of a DC, NE, HOU, or DAL. These teams weren't built in a couple years, they were built over several seasons. That's what Sigi is doing. People forget how young this team still is. How many young players who are still learning on the job and are still playing in pivital roles for this team. The average age for our usual starting midfield is 22 years old. That's a negative now, but if the Crew could ever get consistant play out of Grabs and Gaven in central midfield, how much better would this team be right now? If one of the many talented wingers like Virtuoso, Rogers, or Thomas could step up into that third forward spot how much better would this team be?
     
  22. TimD

    TimD Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio, U.S.
    I don't see Sigi going anywhere this season. He will be our coach until the end of this year. To fire him now would put us on the same level as those boneheads out in LA and send a horrible message to the league.

    That said, when does Sigi's contract expire? Does anyone know? If it is this year and we miss the playoffs I would not expect it to be renewed as a coach and I would fully expect for Robert to take over the position. Robert will be our next head coach.

    What we need is a technical director. I was joking (sort of) last week when the "Bruce Arena was spotted in town" brouhaha was going on that The Bruce was being approached as our new TD. The more I think about it the more I like it. I just don't think that it is realistic. But, Sigi as TD and Robert as coach seems like a realistic possibility.

    From day one Sigi and MM have both said that they were building this team for the long run. Brining in young guys and developing them next to experienced players. That would seem like what they are doing and tying that in with incremental goals like making the playoffs.

    Personally I hate the idea that the people who run my team set their goals at making the playoffs. I want them to think championship every year. But the reality is the team that Sigi inherited would have had a hard time beating Worthington HS on a regular basis, fact is they sucked. All an opposing team had to do was set a six pack and a bong on the sidelines and most of that team would have become so distracted that they would have fallen over each other for most of the game (not that they didn't do that anyway).

    I don't think that anyone would think that the fiasco that Jim Smith and GA left behind could be cleaned up in one or possibly even two seasons. That my friends was a train wreck of epic proportion.

    So now we have a full time conditioning coach who has kept most of the team healthy for most of the year. A team that stays involved in the game for at least 85 of the required 90 minutes. A true star in Guille. And a core of young players that look like they might actually pan out. We are better but we are a far, far way away from being a strong team in this league.

    Sigi stays until the end of the season and if he has a third year on his contract we will see him here next year as well. But at the end of the day I still think that the idea of bringing Sigi in was to give Robert time to mature into a head coach and whatever the length of Sigi's contract is was what was identified as being the timeframe required for that happening. Now the question is whether or not Sigi moves into the TD spot next year or whenever his contract runs.

    And please God let someone talk the Hunt's into coughing up the coin to get us a DP who can put the bloody ball into the back of the net, PLEASE.

    As for Seb, I don't have any idea what Sigi's problem with him was but that guy could play. Our team became entirely different when he stepped onto the field. The problem with him was that he got sick and tired of sending beautiful balls through to guys who weren't making runs. And then he had the temerity to let the lazy asses hear about the fact that they were wasting his efforts.
     
  23. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You start with a phony standard. We all know that nobody has ever had EVERY personnel move he makes come out great.

    My problem is in seeing that ANY personnel move has come out great. Sure you're going to miss now and then. However, Sigi was brought in largely because of his supposed talent for recognizing players.

    So who would you say Sigi has brought in who looks terrific? I like Gonzalez. Hesmer looks like a long-time starter. Schelotto, obviously. (Like tha was a tough call - anybody would have taken him in a heartbeat. It's like saying Lalas is a genius for recognizing that Beckham can play).

    Who else?

    Let's start with draft choices. He's been here through two drafts. 16 natural picks. Who have we gotten? Garey? Moss? Kamara? Zayner? Nice names. Where are they? These are 24 year old players, not teenagers. What value are we getting from ANY draft pick?

    Happy with Jacob Thomas? Sigi loves the guy. Whenever he's remotely healthy, he starts. How's that going? Who else do you like?

    When Sigi came here, Edson Buddle was our best forward. We desperately needed a scorer even before Buddle got traded away.

    So in two years, who has Sigi come up with? Two whole years, and Alejandro Moreno - not exactly lighting up the league - is the best he can do.

    Is this a great coach? Is this even an effective coach?

    Absolutely.

    By the same token though, you don't wait for several seasons and then suddenly become a solid team. You build it. And except for Schleottto, he really hasn't brought in a lot of great parts.

    You tell me: in "several years" when Sigi is done building this supposed powerhouse team, which current players will be starters on it?

    And please, don't feed me a bunch of crap about guys who aren't even getting PT now. I'm looking for solid players who are contributing now, not your personal opinion on which bench player will be an All Star in five years.

    And the real irony? In "several years" (say, one more) Guille will be gone. So if your theory is that we're building something here as part of a process and the only legitimate piece of this "long term" project will be gone in 15 months, that's pretty thin stuff.
     
  24. Flyer Fan

    Flyer Fan Member+

    Apr 18, 1999
    Columbus, OH
    My concern for this organ-eye-za-shun is that it falls into a cycle of constantly rebuilding. Schmid was handed the team and allowed to bring in and get rid of whomever he wanted (apparently). If he were to not be around next year, whether by his choice or not, I would assume the next coach would want to shape the team in his philosophy. And then, after a couple years of shaping that team, where will we be? Hopefully not having this same discussion. It's maddening.
     
  25. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Beacon, NY
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    To me thats why you keep Sigi on. I don't see how it can be argued that this team isn't better than last years team, even if it's still maddening to watch.

    I hate to agree with myshap here, believe me I do, but at the beginning of the season the team was picked below Toronto by some experts, and most fans were hoping we'd be fgighting for a playoff spot come the final month of the season. Thats where we are now. Reasonable expectations to this point have been met, lets see where the rest of the season takes us.

    But if you fire Sigi at season's end, it's hard to imagine you aren't taking a step back next season to learn another new system.
     

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