Is it time for the budget training wheels to come off?

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by mschofield, Jan 25, 2022.

  1. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My point though, is that I believe that MLS can get to a level where upping the offer to Pepi is worth it/as good or better for him to stay and play than go to Augsburg. In turn that leads to a Dallas team with Pepi/Pom/Servina/Ferreira/Cerrillo that are all STARTING for FCD ... that's the kind of thing that folks want. That builds community/attachment/etc. That's how the investment pays off.

    As you stated, we're basically in the case by case basis stage.
     
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  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But his replacements, Velasco and Arriola seem to be doing the job. There were over 19,000 at Toyota Park on Saturday, probably their biggest regular season crowd in years for a match not featuring a big name foreign player.
     
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  3. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, but there's a huge difference if you're churning out your own replacements.

    I think the bigger attribution to the FCD attendance is that the club finally showed initiative OUTSIDE of their home grown efforts. Paying your record fee for a transfer will get some attention. But that'll fade if they don't follow up and don't keep some form of continuation of this effort. I'm willing to bet MORE would walk away (or more would more quickly) with players brought in VS stars they produce.

    There's always going to be a hole ... you'll never have a full 11 in any given group or two.
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno, I think they got a good deal for Pepi. The $20 million valuation presumably includes potential, potential that may or may not be achieved.

    Dallas started Saturdays's game with an entirely home-grown midfield plus Hedges and Ferreira.
     
  5. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh absolutely, and I'm not denying that one bit. They did GREAT.

    Now imagine that same lineup but with Pepi up top ... and Velasco being brought in. That's what I'm getting at. The investment PLUS the home grown.

    Seattle is just about hitting on it but haven't gotten the numbers to the first team that FCD has. But they're close.
     
  6. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a great dream.....except Velasco isn't brought in without the Pepi sale....
     
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  7. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're missing the end point of what I'm saying. It stems from the questions he asked initially. That end point is from my answers to his questions .. and part of that point is that I believe MLS can get to a point where that lineup AND investment exists.
     
  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In order to invest, there has to be money coming in to invest. Clubs all over the world use player sales to bring in money to reinvest into the club.

    Word on the street is that the new MLS Media deal isn't going to be a needle mover. This world with no budget mechanisms, no GAM, no TAM....spend as you wish up to a certain dollar amount? That's likely not going to happen in the next 5 years.

    So teams like Dallas, are going to need to sell players, to bring players like Velasco in. Same with Philly. Most MLS owners aren't opening up their personal wallets to cut checks to pay transfer fees (outside of MLSE, Cincy, and Atlanta).

    This akin to the people stating that if Pro/Rel was implemented into US Soccer that BILLIONS!!!! & BILLIONS!!! of dollars would magically flow into the game.
     
  9. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    THESE are the original questions that evolved to the post of mine you originally quoted:

    But let's say you do take the training wheels off, what's going to be the real benefit?

    Are you going to persuade the Pulisic's to choose MLS over the Champions League? I very much doubt it. In which case who would you attract?

    And would the extra investment be worth it in terms of interest and revenue? At what point do people stop watching March Madness and switch to the Austin-Seattle match?



    The back and forth actually addresses some of your response already.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see the real benefit of changing the system today. I think Pepi would have gone whatever system was in place.

    He signed a 5 year deal with FCD in 2021 that would significantly increase his pay every year. He wanted to go and Dallas were very happy with the transfer fee.

    We should combine this thread with the 'Abolish the Draft' thread where the OP seems to think MLS should be selling everyone to Europe. That may be an over-simplification.
     
  11. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, Pepi is a top 1% talent and will essentially always go ... he was just the most obvious and readily available example to illustrate where I was going.
     
  12. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    man, that is still a big piggy bank
     
  13. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    And this is what some don't understand and insist that MLS owners need a salary budget otherwise they'll go broke like NASL when that isn't the case. Owners aren't spending more than they are making and in one or two case they are spending just what they get from the league.

    Teams like Dallas and Philly who didn't spend much before are now spending but it's due to them selling players. And teams like Atlanta, as was mentioned by Saputo a while back, makes around $3-5M every home game they have. That's around $50-$80M Atlanta is making in just attendance a year so them spending $16M on a transfer fee isn't directly coming from Blank's own pocket. As I said in the other post, all teams operate within their own internal budget. MLS doesn't need to tell them how much they need to spend. No one is out here spending more than what they make.
     
  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #39 Paul Berry, Apr 21, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
    Atlanta had total revenues of around $78 million in 2019 according to Forbes, that includes ticket sales, sponsorship and local TV deals but that's before DP salaries and expenses, like travel, non- playing salaries and running their academy.

    Oh and the small matter of paying for that stadium.
     
  15. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    DP salaries in 2019.

    Josef Martinez $3.1M
    Barco $1.4M
    Pity Martinez $900k

    That's $5.4M in DP salaries. Pity Martinez did cost Atlanta United $16M in transfer fees on January 2019 but they sold that same month Miguel Almiron for $26M.

    Anyway you look at it Atlanta isn't spending more than they are making even though they clearly can. The money they use is from the money they make. Even if MLS didn't have a salary cap Atlanta wouldn't go out and spend more than they need to.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But if you look at European leagues it only takes one team to spend outlandishly and suddenly the rest are playing catch up. We've seen it most recently with Ajax. They started spending heavily, then PSV started spending more to catch up.

    To be honest I'm not sure what advantage there is to be gained. The best players aren't going to come to the US in their prime in any circumstances because of the glamor of the UCL.
     
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  17. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Look at the sales Ajax does. They are a selling club. Buy cheap and/or develop your talent and keep on repeating it. Not all teams in any league work or operate the same.

    I agree that the best players won't come to MLS specially in their prime so saying MLS will go broke or the NASL way because they'll go after these players is false. They can go after them right now with the DP rule but it isn't cost effective for the MLS teams and a player like say Haaland or Mbappe won't waste their time in MLS no matter how much you offer him.
     
  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think it was the Mbappe's that broke NASL. It was the Terry Hickeys, Bobby Howes, Alan Woodwards, Colin Boultons, Colin Waldrons, Graham Paddons, Alan Willeys, Ron Futchers, Ray Hudsons, Willie Morgans and Pampos Papadopoulosososososes.

    Much better to spend that money on young Americans and South Americans that overpaid aging Europeans.
     
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  19. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    No one is paying such high prices for aging Europeans that it will make them go broke. But the point wasn't the age, the point is paying too much that without a salary cap these owners will go broke because they won't be able to control their spending. And nope, it isn't happening even though they can even with the DP rule that is in place.
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What would be the benefits to owners, players and fans?
     
  21. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Several owners and managers have said that MLS has too many roster building restrictions. Then you have the opposite side of owners who like that so they won't have to play catch up in case there weren't restrictions.

    What would benefit fans? Well I would assume a better quality product, at least for us that do follow MLS. It doesn't mean better quality guarantees more eyeballs though but certainly guarantees a better product in the field.
     
  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously the majority of owners don't believe there are too many roster restrictions.

    I believe that more Alex Rings would improve the product marginally but I'd prefer to see more Paxton Aaronsons and Talles Magnos.
     
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  23. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree in principle but it is the Alex Ring/Valeri diamond finds that are going to make the league a steady power against LigaMX and help raise the overall quality.

    Yes you get Aaronson/Magno to light the lamp but for every Ric Flair you have, you need an Arn and Tully behind them. Because you never know when you're getting Paul Roma (Nazarit anyone?) and have to cover that mistake.
     
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  24. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Paxton Aaronsons are homegrowns which is what MLS needs more of too. The Talles Magnos are going to cost teams a decent amount but you can't bring in several of them because of the cap. I would also add that one of the reasons MLS gets bashed on is for having bad defending and bad GK. It doesn't mean because the FO of teams don't know how to scout a defender or a GK, it just means that with a salary cap most of the money goes to attackers and what's left over you put in defenders and GK which isn't much thus the quality we see.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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